New Lionel Catalog Conrail E8 Set

I have the C&O Legacy E8s from a couple catalogs ago.  If the Conrail follow suit, they are Lionel Molds, not Weaver with Legacy, etc.  I'm guessing these were the same as the TMCC Molds from years ago.  I love my E8s and have had no problems with them.

The new lionel E-8s are new tooling. I have 2 sets of them so far. They have been adding some road specific details, mainly on the roofs. Both sets I have are nice, I think the detail fidelity is better than the MTH models, which are getting a bit long in the tooth. There's some things about the Lionel ones that I dont like, but most of it is minor. Everyone's complaint when they came out was that the pilot is slightly wider than the nose of the shell. They are right, but its not that much, and its pretty easy to look past when its running. For later service models, you'll probably find yourself adding the nose grab irons and stuff if you want it to be mostly correct. Sounds are good, the catalog does say its got a hancock air whistle, which is correct and should be fun provided they follow through.

The cars are really TBD because no one's seen the "new" version of the 21" cars that ride lower. I would suggest that you do some research on the cars they're offering, to see if they're fudging something or not. A lot of the CR OCS cars are rebuilt heavyweights or something else from another life. 

As far as it being worth it, thats up to you really. I've seen some prices south of $1K in the preorder lists already. 

The Weaver E8 molds were sold to MTH along with the "C628" and the SD40-2 back in the late 1990's. IMHO, research the Lionel E8 molds. There were some issues with them from being too narrow and not being round or bulldog enough on the nose. Some say it appeared Lionel took the E7 mold (which was near perfect) and attempted to make them E8's. If their legacy prr gp9's are any indication, chances are good the Conrail e8's will just have different paint than the rest of the run. The real OCS E8 had twin 36" dynamic brake fan instead of the EMD "as built" single 48"fan. I highly doubt that Lionel will install this detail. In fact I would be amazed if Lionel offered the hep mufflers on the roof instead of the steam generator details on a regular E8 run. I also doubt that Lionel's model would have solid side panels instead of the porthole windows that are normally found on a regular E8 run. 

Below the first two photos are of the MTH OCS set

Next are Brass Overland models set

and here is a Lionel e8 set:

 As far as the PAX cars they look good and I am tempted to preorder... But they are expensive-$1000+ for just the 4 car set. Then you have the dome, the 2pak, and the most interesting car, the #9 theatre car with a camera?

I have the partial MTH set (5-car) then bought a ribbed Amtrak full dome and an undecorated ribbed passenger car 2pak set both to be repainted to the Conrail OCS.  Fwiw, the MTH cars total did not add up to the preorder price of just the 4 car Lionel set. 

Hi Sam. Personally, $1000 (or a little less) is an awful lot to pay for these new diesels in AA pairs that are 'nice' but as mentioned above, have a few minor flaws. Legacy sounds are great but I'd have a good look at some of the older E series sets out there on the secondary market. You can pick up some of the earlier Lionel E6s in ACL, Rock Island, Burlington E5, Milwaukee Rd for around $400-$500. The Santa Fe's have been a little higher when available but there is a set that has been on the Bay for awhile asking $699. The MTH Premiere E6s and E8s are very nice and you get the B unit as well at good prices.  There are essentially 3 MTH PS systems - PS2 5v,  PS2 3v, and PS3. Try to avoid the older PS2 sets with the 5v Board however.

Lot of choices with passenger cars for you out there.  Williams are often the best value as are MTH cars. Cars come in 15",16", 18", and 20 - 21". ABS plastic or Aluminum. Prices will usually vary depending on if they have interiors, with or without passengers, and the trucks. Look around a bit...

Just to clarify, lately MTH E8 sets are now being sold as a-a and separate b units. However there are a lot of the older ps2 a-b-a sets to be found at more reasonable prices.

As far as Williams 72" passenger car sets are concerned, caveat emptor- you get what you pay for.  The Williams sets from a 3' distance and looking at one side appear good with a baggage, short dome, coach, diner, and a boat tail observation car . However get a closer look and one notices that the diner, dome, and coach all have the same window arrangements as a sleeping car and really look awkward for those that want more scale fidelity. At least MTH sets have correct window arrangements for the type of passenger car they are modeling.

I haven't seen mentioned the Lionel set only has two motors. How many cars do you expect to pull? 

For a third of the price and a bit of work this K-Line pair will easily handle fourteen 21" aluminum cars without even breathing hard. It comes with four motors and I added ERR cruise and some P&D details. About 400 bucks invested.

Pete

My Lionel E's easily pull a long string of Kline 21" ESE cars with just the two motors. 

The Lionel Es are outstanding. 

I have a set of the Erie's in my picture, above, still in stock and the B&Os. I also have a set of the older NYC like the set I run, at a close out price. 

Still some MTH Es in stock as well, both three engine sets and singles. 

I'm planning one of the Conrail sets with the theatre car for our layout. 

FWIW: From what I can tell, the Conrail E8's did not have port hole windows.  Also, one of the images I can find actually shows an E8 with what appears to be a Hancock air whistle.

Fred

I Believe Conrail 4022 had an odd horn from an FL9 while it was still blue. I don't know about 4020 and 4021 which came later.

I didn't even think about the porthole windows. CR 4022 didn't have them, and I'd bet Lionel wouldn't change the molds for this detail. The steam generator vs HEP details is something too. I was ready to whip out my credit card last night, but now I'll hold off. I can't see spending money like this and really not having a clue what will really show up.

The BN E's look cool, but they're shown in the early passenger scheme with green nose stripes and porthole windows. This was about a two year period before Amtrak started. The commuter E's with orange nose stripes would've been cool, but what BN bi-level cars to go with em.

Note that former Conrail #4022 was an ex Erie E8 while the former Conrail #4020 and #4022 were Ex PRR units now owned by Bernie Levin

E8s are of great interest to me. The first diesel I ever saw was an E8.

I have the MTH 20-20050-1 A-B-A set http://mthtrains.com/20-20050-1

and the Weaver 1034L

The MTH is far better in details . . . and with both units being powered, pulls very well. The Weavers are older . . . conventional running only.  I was unhappy that the livery on the MTH was the red CPRail paint scheme and I wanted the original CPR 1949 Beaver Crest livery as on the Weavers. So I added some details to the Weaver shell and swapped the shells. This is the old Weaver shell mounted onto the 20-20050-1 MTH chassis.

I don't think the old Weaver shell compares to later versions. The thing that bugs me most about it are the totally unrealistic number boards. Hard to change them.

While the new Lionel E8s would interest me, had they offered the as-delivered CPR paint scheme, I have E8s on order from 3-rd Rail that likely will be at least as detailed and accurate as the latest Lionels.

3-rd Rail's new E8 models are scheduled for completion this March. By the time they are delivered, it will have been a two-year wait for them after their announcement. Standby reservations are still being accepted. Price, per powered unit is $670.

Terry Danks, what do you mean the Weaver number boards are unrealistic? Out of all the MTH, K-Line E8's out there I find them to be the MOST realistic because they don't have the overpronounced "number board gasket" that is easily seen on the K-Line and MTH versions... seen as big as Mcjagger's lips!

So rereading the on line catalog, one gets the ex Erie E8 with the 4 car set. Then there is an additional add on 2 pack.  And then the Theatre car with a cmera- interesting!

Just for clarification. 

The E-8's are old K line tooling correct?

The E-7's are existing Lionel tooling.

The E-8's appear a little skinny or are Lionel E-7's too wide?

For the money I agree what was previously stated that both E-8 A units should have sound, smoke and be powered, watching them run they seem to slip a bit.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

So rereading the on line catalog, one gets the ex Erie E8 with the 4 car set. Then there is an additional add on 2 pack.  And then the Theatre car with a cmera- interesting!

There's also a full dome car with sounds. What are the sounds? Is this full dome car the same LTI version with just a white plastic sheet in the dome? Has Lionel added an interior stuff over the years? I've decided that there are too many unknowns with this set for me to make this kind of investment.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/lionel-e8

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Terry Danks, what do you mean the Weaver number boards are unrealistic? Out of all the MTH, K-Line E8's out there I find them to be the MOST realistic because they don't have the overpronounced "number board gasket" that is easily seen on the K-Line and MTH versions... seen as big as Mcjagger's lips!

The Weavers have black numerals decaled onto a clear plastic "board." The illumination from behind turns this into two mini spotlights . . . making the things both unrealistic in overall appearance and illegible to boot. Compare to the prototype in the image.

IMO, MTH did this mucho better . . .

Switching the boards from one shell to the other looked like a hazardous procedure and I did not try.

Problem will disappear when 3-rd Rail delivers my CP E8s.

All this said, I appreciate the gaskets are too prominent.

The numbers and the background colors are fixable. The oversized number board gaskets are really tough to fix.

"I don't think the old Weaver shell compares to later versions. The thing that bugs me most about it are the totally unrealistic number boards. Hard to change them."

Number boards? Didn't anyone notice that the Weaver E-8's have no exhaust stacks? That trumps a number board issue, to me. Plays heck with the horsepower rating.

But - I like the Weavers; good for the times. Built like tanks. The number boards are no problem - the missing exhaust stacks are - but easily fixable. I do like the Samhongsa-built Weaver diesels. Basic. Simple. Tough. Accurate (shortcomings freely acknowledged).

I used Precision Scale parts to add stacks. People say those number boards are easily fixable but I don't see how? Here's my Weaver shell with stacks, repainted and additional grabrails.

The Weaver also has molded in brow grabirons that more look like tumors!  CPR's E8s did not have them as delivered in 1949 but they were added later and MTH is correct in including them. Also not all E8s had dynamics. CPR's did not but both Weaver and MTH have dynamic fans. Didn't really have to be. Here's a Broadway Imports N scale model, more prototypical in every respect . . . no dynamic fan either.

C&O Allie posted:

I have the C&O Legacy E8s from a couple catalogs ago.  If the Conrail follow suit, they are Lionel Molds, not Weaver with Legacy, etc.  I'm guessing these were the same as the TMCC Molds from years ago.  I love my E8s and have had no problems with them.

 

Sweet engine!

Peter