I dug the rest of my Western Maryland information out of that closet last evening. There was more than I remembered. Seven hard back books, a couple paperback books, two 3" magazine boxes, and miscellaneous papers. Yes I would say there was an interest in the WM. I had looked at various portions from Cumberland on int West Virginia for inspiration for a layout over a long span of years. Blackwater Canyon is one of my favorite areas.
John, how did you know??
Mark:
I will get it to you. EXTREMELY BUSY TODAY. Will work on that tomorrow. :-)
Mark Boyce posted:I dug the rest of my Western Maryland information out of that closet last evening. There was more than I remembered. Seven hard back books, a couple paperback books, two 3" magazine boxes, and miscellaneous papers. Yes I would say there was an interest in the WM. I had looked at various portions from Cumberland on int West Virginia for inspiration for a layout over a long span of years. Blackwater Canyon is one of my favorite areas.
John, how did you know??
You know its funny how things just fall into place some times. You are so lucky to have a HUGE head start.
John,
Oh please don't worry about when you get back to me! There are all too many things that take priority for all of us.
Head start or stalled for a dozen years now picking back up? I found my last hand drawn plan and written description for my HO layout that never got beyond bench work. I will have to fiddle with it to scan and show everyone. Basically it was Blackwater Canyon then over the top and down the Horth Branch of the Potomac, with branches to Mt Storm Power Station and Mines at Vindex Maryland. It was still too much for a bigger room in HO.
Mark:
I haven't forgotten you. M.T.H. Electric Trains informed me a few nights ago to "roll" forward with my project. Ross Custom Switches has already given me the go ahead as well. I have ordered the proof today and should have it Friday. If it's good, the entire run will be ordered Friday. I'll have a chance to update the drawing tomorrow. :-)
With your announcement posts on Facebook, I thought you must be tied up on that!
I've been busy too! Don't worry in the least about when you are able to respond! Thank you!
After refreshing my memory by looking through some of my books, I have a few ideas.
First I was reminded at the upper end of the Blackwater Canyon, there is a yard at Thomas, with a cool station and the Francis Branch peals off towards Davis. Thomas is a cool town because it is built on a hillside with two streets one at a higher elevation than the other that act as one Main Street. I think that could be represented on a backdrop with buildings higher right behind the foreground buildings. Really, either Thomas or Davis would work, as we are using it as a terminus of the layout, but I would want a dead track going behind scenery or off the table edge to show the main line goes on to Cumberland. I would want to do the same thing at Hendricks. I don't think I would buy a switch, just cut some track to fit, so at a glance, it looks like it goes on. It would take little room. Of course, I am not trying to make an exact replica of either town, just give the impression of a similar town. I tried prototypical scenery in HO, and felt it was too constricting and it became work. All I am after is to make it look plausible and give the feel of the location.
The photos helped me visualize the canyon scenery in my mind, but I am unable to get much of anything down on paper. I may do what I did years ago, and make a small mock up out of cardboard and clay. That worked quite nicely back then.
John, I have seen your drawers idea for extra rolling stock before. It also reminds me of the fiddle yard, which is common in England. In this case, the drawers and yard are out in the open sceniced layout instead of hidden as they do at shows in England. While I have a lot of small Western Maryland equipment, I have no problem running some of my other railroads on a layout based on a location on the Western Maryland. All of my favorites had lines in the Appalachians.
I have been thinking of paint and lighting. I have always planned on a sky blue for the walls, and even thought of a light blue ceiling as well. With that I will want to get the backdrop figured out and up in the early stages of construction. As for lighting, I see people have used can flood lights, track lights, and even now LED bulbs. I am thinking I would rather use track lighting, as I wouldn't have to cut big holes in the ceiling and they can be positioned to cover the layout easier. The type of bulb is something yet to be thought out. Heat from lighting will also be a factor in a small enclosed room. Suggestions on lighting will be greatly appreciated.
I still have at least one box to find. It got too late, and I had to clean up the room, because the closet door is right at the traffic crossroads of the basement level of the house. I found a bunch of old Kalmbach books, but I am still missing the benchwork one and some others, including some hardback books on long abandoned Western Pennsylvania railroads. Maybe this weekend will give me some time.
Mark:
I love your idea of "continuing" the line via dummy track. That is a way to "suggest" that the track connects to the remainder of the world. That is a very good idea.
Lights...they make all kinds these days. I would go with the track lighting because if you use the kind that inserts into the track you may easily readjust position.
I want to try a "new" LED that dims. All of my can lights are non-LED. I understand the LEDs can be brighter as well as dimmer and last longer. I understand that these are expensive, but I want to see.
If you do go with the track lighting consider putting each track (set) of lights (usually 3 to 4) on a SEPARATE DIMMER SWITCH. It will be very convenient to regulate the intensity of your lighting in different areas. In your application. I'm thinking 3 separate tracks of 3 to 4 fixtures each, all independently controlled, would serve you very well. I would also position a fixture directly over both turntables to eliminate shadows. Those will be a lot of photos.
Painting a town, or getting a photo realistic backdrop of either of these towns made in the background would be awesome! It would conserve a ton of space.
Lastly, I was just notified that my proof of the design book is at the printer. If Connie and I like it we will order the first run. This is an exciting time for both of us. :-)
John C. posted:Mark:
Lights...they make all kinds these days. I would go with the track lighting because if you use the kind that inserts into the track you may easily readjust position.
I want to try a "new" LED that dims. All of my can lights are non-LED. I understand the LEDs can be brighter as well as dimmer and last longer. I understand that these are expensive, but I want to see.
We just installed the dimmable can LED lights in our new house. They dim very well with no fluctuations in the light during transitions. They are very bright on the high end. Ours came in "contractor" 4 packs from Lowes for like $60. We have six of the 65 watt cans in our living room, which is about 350 sq ft. I would think you could do the train room very affordably!
Goshawk posted:John C. posted:Mark:
Lights...they make all kinds these days. I would go with the track lighting because if you use the kind that inserts into the track you may easily readjust position.
I want to try a "new" LED that dims. All of my can lights are non-LED. I understand the LEDs can be brighter as well as dimmer and last longer. I understand that these are expensive, but I want to see.
We just installed the dimmable can LED lights in our new house. They dim very well with no fluctuations in the light during transitions. They are very bright on the high end. Ours came in "contractor" 4 packs from Lowes for like $60. We have six of the 65 watt cans in our living room, which is about 350 sq ft. I would think you could do the train room very affordably!
Dear Corey:
Thank you for the post. I have "heard" good things, but have never owned/tested one. I've got 23 to change out. I think I'll do it a little at a time to lessen the pain.
What BRAND did you purchase?
Thank you John and Corey! The 3 tracks sound good. I agree, pricing doesn't sound too bad for my application.
John,
I 'm looking forward to your book. That is good news it is almost ready!
John C. I honestly have no idea what brand they are.
Mark and John C,
I don't know about the fixtures, but LED bulbs have come way down in price in the last couple of years. Many are dimmable, but check them to be sure. We have now converted almost our entire house to LEDs. Some CFL & 4' florescents left, but incandescents have all been replaced.
Go up to Home Depot and have a look around. The selection and variety has greatly increased. They even have LED bulbs you can control color and brightness with your smart phone. I have been watching them at Home Depot for about 3 years now and I think you might be surprised at the prices and selection available. Some are nearing the prices of the better incandescent bulbs. Also consider that they last from around 12 to 22 years depending on brand and use just a fraction of power that incandescent bulbs use. In my case, I will probably be expired before the 22 year bulbs fail.
Thank you for the information on LED bulbs. That is good news indeed! I will have to do some looking at Home Depot and Lowes to see what I can find!
Since I last wrote, I have been searching my archives and online for photos of the proposed Western Maryland Blackwater Canyon area from Thomas to Hendricks. I have found all the photos I was remembering, but one. That is a good photo of the Tub Run bridge near the top of the grade. I found one on a bike trail site that shows a small portion, but I have not found the photo of the whole scene from the steam era.
If anyone can provide a photo, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
I will post some photos later when I have some time to scan the ones I don't already have digitally.
Mark Boyce posted:Since I last wrote, I have been searching my archives and online for photos of the proposed Western Maryland Blackwater Canyon area from Thomas to Hendricks. I have found all the photos I was remembering, but one. That is a good photo of the Tub Run bridge near the top of the grade. I found one on a bike trail site that shows a small portion, but I have not found the photo of the whole scene from the steam era.
If anyone can provide a photo, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
I will post some photos later when I have some time to scan the ones I don't already have digitally.
Mark: Scan and post the photos you have--if it isn't too much trouble. I'm really curious to see what you've got.
Looks like a great place to model. I love the look of Thomas Station.
Mark Boyce posted:Yes, here are photos I pulled off the Internet. Let's see what I have here before I get the books out scanning. I think I will save some time. Actually, there is quite a lot here.
Here is one I have seen a lot giving an overall view of a train going down the canyon. Super!
Davis Engine House
I love this engine shed. I don't think it would be that hard to model.
As a side note from an earlier discussion, here is a picture of one of the LED can lights in m house. They are super easy to keep clean.
Corey,
I agree the engine shed is fairly basic to build. I have to decide what will fit in my space, and what I want most. John C. Was so correct I had way too many things on my list that I would like; but that was the whole reason for posting all of it.
Thank you for the photo of a can light. Yes I will have to decide on it or track lights. Somehow I think the track lights would be easier to install, but I don't know.
Pat Kn posted:Looks like a great place to model. I love the look of Thomas Station.
Pat, Thank you! Yes, I love that station. It was heavily damaged by a tornado and rebuilt without the rounded end, so there are photos for each version. I like the rounded end, but that roof may be challenging.
Mark:
You already have a gold mine! Wow. I love the stations. Whichever you select, I would place the actual photo on the backdrop. Those are too cool! Unless of course, you have the ability (I wish that I did) to scratch build replicas. Having just written that, you are kind of pressed for space. Maybe if you built, just the FRONTS of the station against a backdrop? My vote is for a picture blended into the backdrop!
Or plead with your daughter to paint the photo on the backdrop. :-)
John,
Yes, the main photo I want to locate is of the full Tub Run Bridge from any era. I do have a photo of downtown Thomas, showing how the Main Street buildings are on a hillside. I will have to scan that. That would be a backdrop item, and I agree about the station as well. It worked well for you on your Izaac Walton Inn.
I think I have a source for mountainous backdrop for the main line. I may have to wait on the towns. That may not be so bad, since they are at each end I could maybe slip them in from the side at a later date. Our daughter mostly specializes in three dimensional art, as in dolls, crocheted stuffed animals all of her own designs. She does excellent painting, but gets bogged down with other interests. She has a 3/4 completed (in my estimation) portrait of our other daughter and son-in-law on an easel in our family room. It has been there for 2 years. lol My wife suggested I pay her for any backdrop painting. That may be what happens on the towns.
Can't wait to see your progress. You are doing it right. Lots of thinking before making sawdust. When I saw the photo of the Davis engine house I said to myself, hey I have seen that before. I kitbashed 2 Lionel loco sheds by removing one panel from each side of one shed and gluing those to each side of the other shed and then making 2 new ends with 2 portals. The doors were easy to make from skinny sticks. I traced the openings from the donor opening. It is a pretty big bldg so it takes up space. But I find the proportions and design appealing.
Pennsynut,
I can't wait as well! LOL. It has been a long wait. My old hand drawn track plan that I didn't scan yet is dated 2001!! Raising kids and moving to a smaller house got in the way!
Are you sure the Davis, WV enginehouse wasn't the prototype for your kitbash? You are right, it is an excellent standin for the one on Davis.
Thank you!!
Usually I do copy many ideas on bldgs and other modeling but in this rare case I saw the two Lionel sheds at a train show and then the light bulb!
pennsynut posted:Usually I do copy many ideas on bldgs and other modeling but in this rare case I saw the two Lionel sheds at a train show and then the light bulb!
That is great you acted on the light bulb. An inspiration to us all!
I scanned those preliminary plans for my proposed HO layout back in 2001, just to show I had been thinking along these lines back then. This layout was to have staging for Elkins and Cumberland. Elkins was to be on a lower level, and Cumberland on the main level. There was to be a steep run to an upper level for the Chaffee Branch which veered off between Thomas and Cumberland. Yes, it is crude, and certainly not final. In fact, I recall thinking I would move the Thomas yard over towards the curve to allow more room for the Blackwater Grade. I hadn't decided on all the sidings etc. either. However, one can see this plan was point to point, just like John's is now.
I had built a bunch of benchwork, and before putting risers for elevations, I had placed sheets of Styrofoam on the benchwork to try out the track to see how it fit. Eventually, I kept taking up track and we ended up building 2 dollhouses and other projects for the girls on it. Then it seemed to become a catch all for stuff my wife put there. Eventually, I took it all down, and used the lumber and foam for various home projects. Such is life. And now we have come to where we are today.
just a thought in one of the pics you showed the ceiling layout running over the door to the train room . couldn't a helix be put in to tie bot the ceiling and the room layout together so you could transistion between the two just a thought .
Jhainer posted:just a thought in one of the pics you showed the ceiling layout running over the door to the train room . couldn't a helix be put in to tie bot the ceiling and the room layout together so you could transition between the two just a thought .
It is a thought I had too. I do intend to rework the shelving of the corners of my ceiling layout regardless of what I do otherwise. With that, I could make a ramp into the train room at the upper corner of the door. John C's opinion that overhead trackage could distract from the main layout, is a good point too. I think the helix could be done. I just need to think about that; and maybe leave provision for something like that in the plan for a future possibility after the main layout is well on it's way.
Thank you for the idea.
Our layouts rooms are roughly the same size with some similar obstacles, siding door, closet, etc. We are designing very different layouts and it will be interesting to see how they each turn out.
So here is an update of some action taken. Yesterday, I drove to the Harrisburg area to pickup the backdrops that George (G3750) had professionally painted for his PRR Panhandle Division layout. I had been following George's layout build, since the Panhandle Division is in the same area I live, crossing the Ohio River at Weirton, West Virginia about an hour and a half drive from here. I had noted that George announced he was going to move to a new home and posted a new plan for that home. Then George posted that he was going to sell his backdrop sections instead of trying to get movers to move them. I think they will work well in providing a backdrop for areas on the layout where I want a view into the distance. I am also thinking I will have some areas where the sceniced mountain will go up to the sky.
So here they are in my train room, in no particular order from right to left.
Jdevleerjr posted:Our layouts rooms are roughly the same size with some similar obstacles, siding door, closet, etc. We are designing very different layouts and it will be interesting to see how they each turn out.
Jim,
I am following your layout design topic and look forward to seeing what you come up with as well! 
All the best, Mark. Can't wait to see the layout.
George
Thank you, George!! I wish you well on your move and will be following your new layout build as well!!
I was just in the train room measuring heights John C proposed on his latest plan, which lined up pretty well with my daughter's shelves left on the pink wall. I also was comparing my reach, and I agree 50" at Thomas/Davis works pretty well for me without having to stand on anything. I got looking at the lower town of Hendricks at 33". It isn't too low for me for wiring, because I will be using the cookie cutter method of building my roadbed, and have successfully run my wiring standing and reaching into the layout on past layouts. My thoughts went to getting into the access area on the lower end of the layout. This concerns me some. No, if I build it well, I won't need to access much, but there will always be the occasion where there is a derailment in a tunnel or something that needs attention.
Then I had an idea. No, not a new idea. I actually used this idea on the 2-module layout I built that we moved from Virginia to West Virginia in 1993. I built a hill on the workbench which had a farm and some woods that covered a double track turn-back loop. I then placed the farm scene over the framing, and the tracks were covered. Some bushes hid the joints neatly. I think the portals were attached to the main layout. Anyway, why not do something like this again? Yes, I could use the access, but in the future if I wasn't able to get in there, the foam liftoff scenery may be handy. Just thinking.
I also thought of moving the tracks at Davis out near the edge of the layout, and putting some building/station flats in behind. Maybe even the engine house would fit. I did no measurements yet. I just made a quick sketch on the last plan John C sent. I attached a .pdf of that. Once again, just some thoughts to throw out there.
Thank you for following along!!
This is going to be fun to watch progress, Mark. I started in my train room yesterday. I painted the ceiling black and am working on rewiring the entire room.
Are you going with all O42 curves?
Mike,
I'm glad you got started on your train room. It has been some waiting for both of us.
I need 042 to run my Premier Western Maryland H9 Consolidation. That would be the largest engine I could run on this layout. I could fit larger curves in the room, but I would be confined to big loops around the room, I'm afraid. I do want to expand the shelves in the corners of my Ceiling Central RR in the family room. I could run larger engines there, and do already.
Thank you for taking a look, and I will be glad if you follow along. I will be glad to see how your layout goes as well. Did you get your wiring problem solved?
Mark Boyce posted:I was just in the train room measuring heights John C proposed on his latest plan, which lined up pretty well with my daughter's shelves left on the pink wall. I also was comparing my reach, and I agree 50" at Thomas/Davis works pretty well for me without having to stand on anything. I got looking at the lower town of Hendricks at 33". It isn't too low for me for wiring, because I will be using the cookie cutter method of building my roadbed, and have successfully run my wiring standing and reaching into the layout on past layouts. My thoughts went to getting into the access area on the lower end of the layout. This concerns me some. No, if I build it well, I won't need to access much, but there will always be the occasion where there is a derailment in a tunnel or something that needs attention.
Then I had an idea. No, not a new idea. I actually used this idea on the 2-module layout I built that we moved from Virginia to West Virginia in 1993. I built a hill on the workbench which had a farm and some woods that covered a double track turn-back loop. I then placed the farm scene over the framing, and the tracks were covered. Some bushes hid the joints neatly. I think the portals were attached to the main layout. Anyway, why not do something like this again? Yes, I could use the access, but in the future if I wasn't able to get in there, the foam liftoff scenery may be handy. Just thinking.
I also thought of moving the tracks at Davis out near the edge of the layout, and putting some building/station flats in behind. Maybe even the engine house would fit. I did no measurements yet. I just made a quick sketch on the last plan John C sent. I attached a .pdf of that. Once again, just some thoughts to throw out there.
Thank you for following along!!
I like your lift out scenery idea Mark. That would be ideal. In these days and times the foam is great because its sturdy and weighs next to nothing. I want to try my hand a carving foam one day. I love the results I see people posting on the Forum in photos.
Curious.. I haven't seen this mentioned previously, or maybe I missed it.. On my current layout, instead of homosote, I put 2 layers of 3/4 in pink foam board on the plywood.. This allowed me to 'sculpt' ditches, creeks, etc pretty easily.. I plan on doing this on my new layout build as well.. Just another idea to 'confuse' things.. lol Look forward to your updates as well!!
John,
Curious you wrote this about two hours ago. It was at that time that I had another thought on this idea. I will digress a bit. Yesterday, I received the Atlas turntable I bought from Doug. After looking it and the instructions over, I powered it up and moved the table around some, first with nothing on it, then with an MTH RS1 that was handy sitting on it. It worked fine. Now I had measured out 24 inches in the Davis/Thomas corner before I talked to Doug about buying it, and thought that two 24" turntables are going to defiantly catch the eye in my small room. I thought of this again as I unboxed the turntable.
Now to this morning. The thought crossed my mind that maybe I could hide one at least with removable scenery. The town of Thomas is on a hill overlooking the station and yard. Maybe I could make a foam scenic hill cover over the turntable, but still have a good sized opening in the side of it facing the aisle where I could observe the turntable movement. When there is a problem, I could lift the town scene off to take care of the problem. I would like to have some downtown buildings for at least one town, and this could be a way to fit it in. It may be an idea that I will have to try out with some bare foam glued together to see how it works once the turntable and track are in place and fully operational. Maybe I won't like it, but it would be easy to try.
Woodson,
I'm glad you are here with us. I put foam on top of a plywood base on my last layout; the one I didn't get very far, then had to take it down. Your idea was what I was going to attempt. One thing I do have already is a large sheet of Homasote. My mother-in-law bought a house a while back from an elderly woman who had been a seamstress. My mother-in-law isn't that much younger, but that's another matter. This woman had a large table in a basement room where she would layout all she was working on. The table was topped with a large sheet of Homasote. It is longer than 8 feet, I am quite certain. I see she had measured marks on the top and lots of pin holes where she evidently laid out her work. Since my mother-in-law doesn't use the basement, she will let me take the Homasote, and the large table for that matter when I am ready. I was thinking of cutting the Homasote in sections to go on top of my cutout plywood put my GarGraves track and Ross switches on that. If I was going with a flat topped table layout, I may have topped it with foam.
Thank you for the comments.
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