Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Mark, I think that city planning is more difficult than laying track. While moving towards permanence, whatever that means, I’m on my seventh installment.
The curved street offers a good perspective to showcase your structures; especially your church.

Thank you, Dave, Fred, Jay!

It seems “city planning” is a common problem for modelers.  😀  Thank you for the encouragement!!

I agree with @RV Junke and @Tranquil Hollow RR. The curved street is excellent and something different. I feel like it stands out to me because I tend to see straight roads on layouts.

Mark- You can start a new career as an urban planner.....

The building layout look good. I like the curved road too. IIRC the view as you walk into the room is nice too.

The church came out great.

Bob

Is there enough room to separate the red brick drugstore building from the light brown building next to it and push that building closer to the church ?

That way you could run the perpendicular street out to the edge of the track (jersey barrier or a train triggered gate at the end of that street) and end up with a 4-way intersection in the middle of town. You'd also eliminate the gap between that building and the church.   

I'm a big believer in filling up the street with buildings and many small towns had a mix of both commercial and residential properties, so I'd also think about pushing the Bank/Post office building and the red one next to it (get rid of the Pepsi truck out back) up towards the edge of the street that will run through the center of town and seeing if you can squeeze in a couple of small houses in back of them on each side of the street towards the edge if you can fit them.

If the houses are too big, perhaps some smaller "plasticville" size commercial buildings or a school that are nicely painted and weathered.

Thank you, Bill, Bob, Richie!

Well Bill and Bob, by taking Richie's suggestion, the street ended up curved more; that is at the south (left) end.  I agree, most model railroads have straight streets.  FarmerJohn's is a great example of a curved street.  I can think of several in real life that have a curved or partially curved main business street.

Richie, I think I interpreted your suggestion correctly.  @Dave Ripp. knows I have some houses I thought I didn't have room for.  I actually have room for two of those houses as you suggested.  They are narrow, two story MTH built ups I got from a forum member that I had planned to repaint.  I could cut them down to one story since they are at the front of the layout, but I think I can still see into the Main Street.  So here are some photographs of this layout.

Here I swapped the drug store and three-story building since in this way the windows face the street instead of other buildings.

Thank you everyone!!

Looks good - I might swap the three-story building with the small brown building so that the three-story is next to the church - I think it gives a better perspective that way. I'd also re-orient the fire station the way it was before (perpendicular to the street).

Mark,

The curve is a definite improvement. It adds visual interest and realism. My concern is that your don’t look wide enough to have room for needed sidewalks  and at least two lanes for traffic, not to mention parking for cars. A standard lane is ten feet wide. Older standards called for 9foot lanes. Sidewalks are at least 3 feet deep plus a curb.  Doing the math suggests a minimum width of the street including one one lane in each direction plus sidewalks to be about 24 feet, or roughly 6 inches ( at 1/4” to the foot). While other streets may be one lane, your main curving street may need to be one lane in each direction, for credibility’s sake, if for no other reason ,.

I'm enjoying your posts and pics, as I always do, because I always learn something from them and because will be going through the same exercise in the not too distant future  keep ‘em coming .

Rubin

Thank you, Richie, Rubin!

Richie, I moved the buildings as you suggested.

I had turned the hobby shop entrance corner toward the aisle a bit was so more of the front.  That allowed me to turn the fire house side parallel with the hobby shop.  Also, it made it look like the fire engine had more room to get out of the fire house.  I think I am going to have to park the fire engine inside or partially out to look right.

Rubin, I was thinking about street widths over the weekend.  Here is a photograph of how I measured street and sidewalk to have the minimum width for 1:43 cars and trucks.  The seam between the two lift up sections dictated the placement of the edge of the street and sidewalk.  I have 3' for sidewalks and 8' for each traffic lane.  When cars are side by side like in the photograph, it is obvious the street is narrow.  If I made the curved main street wider, the buildings would be too close to the tracks.  The church is already at the only spot it will fit.

Here’s the fire truck poking out of the fire house.

I noticed this as well.  The roof lines match up in an odd manner.

I may remove the front steps and high stone foundation from the one story building.  That would lower the roof making it look better.  Time will tell.

Hi Mark, Sorry i haven't commented earlier, to be honest no excuse. But now that I am up to speed I really like the curved street! As far as the buildings I cant help you there as I would be tripping over my own 2 feet! As for the roads and side walks I think you will be fine if you even have cars close to each other just now side by side! Just stagger them along the road  and see how that looks!
I think everything is looking great and am excited for you getting closer and closer to spending more time running trains then working on the layout! Of course we all know that is not true! LOL

Wow @Mark Boyce! Everything is coming together nicely!

Thank you, Mike, Tom!

Mike, I had been staggering the cars, but moved them side by side just to see how the lanes worked out.

Tom, I think I have a solution to make the foreground buildings work a little nicer.  Instead of this:

I substituted this one story house.  It has a smaller footprint and the proportions work out better I think.

I haven't liked that other building as much as I thought I would when I bought the kit.  Keep in mind, the houses are just place holders until I build some more detailed kits or scratch build replacements.  We will see how it goes. 

Looks good Mark, I am sure you will find something that fits your fancy for that area!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Here’s the fire truck poking out of the fire house.

I noticed this as well.  The roof lines match up in an odd manner.

I may remove the front steps and high stone foundation from the one story building.  That would lower the roof making it look better.  Time will tell.

Really like the symmetry of the buildings now and the fire truck poking out of the fire house. 

Thank you, Mike, Richie!

Richie, I am one who likes symmetry as well.  Our artist daughter would say I like things to symmetrical to be artistic.  I know towns and cities aren't normally built that way, unless city planners come up with a master plan for a portion of property to be developed.  We have that luxury, to a certain extent.

Here are a few thoughts before I continue.  I was thinking about wires for lighting.  Since most of the town is setting on the two lift ups for access to the two-track yard and mainline below, I thought I should consider where the wires for lighting will go.  The coffee company and freight station are on the solid base as is half of the fire house, but I will still have to make sure they don't dangle done and hook on traffic below.

The wires for the rest of the buildings will have to be attached to the lift ups and not cross under the seam between the two lift up sections.  They could then be passed under the solid section near the upper track.  Also, notice the street running perpendicular to the layout edge would go over one of the hinges and the tracks at the switches for the passing tracks and incline down.  I like the blocked off street idea, but instead of Jersey barriers, I would use some posts in the "ground" and cross braces with a sign.  That would b e more in keeping with the mid-century era.

I cut a couple of pieces of Bristol board to represent that street and sidewalks.  This view is from the laundry room leaning over the washing machine.  The wires are temporary wires from Menards powering the lights for the Menards hobby shop and church.  I can't really move the street over so it crosses the track between the two switches because the buildings won't fit.  The church really can't be moved over any more than it is.

It’s great that you saved a chunk of real estate for the town.  So many little scenes can develop over time.  Thanks for sharing!  The post office in my home town has the huge concrete steps out front like the building that was removed.  That’s what it reminded me of.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike, Richie!

Richie, I am one who likes symmetry as well.  Our artist daughter would say I like things to symmetrical to be artistic.  I know towns and cities aren't normally built that way, unless city planners come up with a master plan for a portion of property to be developed.  We have that luxury, to a certain extent.

Here are a few thoughts before I continue.  I was thinking about wires for lighting.  Since most of the town is setting on the two lift ups for access to the two-track yard and mainline below, I thought I should consider where the wires for lighting will go.  The coffee company and freight station are on the solid base as is half of the fire house, but I will still have to make sure they don't dangle done and hook on traffic below.

The wires for the rest of the buildings will have to be attached to the lift ups and not cross under the seam between the two lift up sections.  They could then be passed under the solid section near the upper track.  Also, notice the street running perpendicular to the layout edge would go over one of the hinges and the tracks at the switches for the passing tracks and incline down.  I like the blocked off street idea, but instead of Jersey barriers, I would use some posts in the "ground" and cross braces with a sign.  That would b e more in keeping with the mid-century era.

I cut a couple of pieces of Bristol board to represent that street and sidewalks.  This view is from the laundry room leaning over the washing machine.  The wires are temporary wires from Menards powering the lights for the Menards hobby shop and church.  I can't really move the street over so it crosses the track between the two switches because the buildings won't fit.  The church really can't be moved over any more than it is.

Mark,

Have you ever considered copper tape? It has adhesive on one side. When I decided to put up a tin plate table; I was not thinking scale and I no longer crawl under tables. I laid out my small town, and then then set up the tape connections. Here is the supply.

. I was able to reach under the table and grab the wire. I stapled it to the tape and then soldered it. Here is a “T” splice.
Again not going scale I grabbed a roll of grass. I measured the spot for each house and exposed the tape. The brown ground cover is in the middle with the tape on both sides. I soldered connections for a lamp in each building.
Here is a portion of the town lit up.

Thank you, Dan, Bob!

Dan, I thought the building with the steps resembled on a smaller scale some coal country company stores in days gone by.  Certainly it could be a post office.

Bob, that copper tape worked great for you.  That certainly beats wiring underneath the layout!!  Thank you for the great idea!

@pennsyfan Bob, I ordered a roll of conductive tape, and it arrived today.  Thank you for the tip, and I'll be posting how it works out for me in upcoming days!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

@pennsyfan Bob, I ordered a roll of conductive tape, and it arrived today.  Thank you for the tip, and I'll be posting how it works out for me in upcoming days!!

Mark Glad to help, looking forward to results.

I am not ready to try the conductive tape Bob @pennsyfan suggested, but I did get the streets laid out.  I stuck with my initial street width of 4" with 1/2" sidewalks.  I cut Bristol board to 5-1/2" width, intending to put 1/2" strips on top for the sidewalks.  Here are some photographs.

Notice in the first two photographs some gray playground equipment near the flagpole.  Our older daughter 3D printed them on their new 3D printer.  They didn't tell anyone about it, and she made objects for each person's interests as gifts.  She is still learning, so some of mine need to be reprinted, but some good ones are the playground, baggage carts, crates, tents and small campers for the campsite, an outhouse, doghouse, etc.  They are all 1:48 scale.  The people didn't turn out as well.  She calls them spaghetti people.  There is also some fencing and Jersey barriers.  I'll get a photograph of them, unpainted and setting at the end of the street.

Mark,

One item of possible concern that you should check - at the lower right in the first photo, there is a building with a wood platform whose left corner is right at the end of a curve. Please run some cars past that corner of the platform to make sure they clear. Very nice buildings.

MELGAR

Mark,

It looks good, but I want to second the remarks of several of the other guys regarding proximity to the curve. Even if you have Shorty passenger cars, I think you will find out that several of the buildings will be struck by the cars as they pass on that relatively sharp looking curve. Even some freight cars may prove problematic. It doesn’t look like you have any clearance ,at all, at least in the first aerial shot.

I think the layout i Of the buildings and the street is great, But I’m not sure how many of your engines and cars will make the curve without taking out a building or two. I hope that I’m wrong, but…

Rubin

Looks great, Mark!  And the 3D printing - pretty good, too.

George

I like those buildings Mark. Looks good.

Mark, I was reviewing the last SCARM file I have for your layout. I think you have enough room to add 4 to 6 inches of upper town. At 6 inches the total reach would be 36 inches to the window. A little long but the add could be a drop in so you could easily move it out of the way if necessary.  (Kind of like a pop up section.)  I do think the you should have wider sidewalks and more curve clearance.  Just put in a rectangular section inside the curve.

As I recall the plan was to have 042 minimum curve on top. Not sure what the top flex track curve came out to be. Guessing 3 inches would be plenty for what you are running. Jeff

Is the watch tower new? I thought you had a picnic scene there awaiting a few pine trees. ?

Thank you, Mel, Rubin, George, Tom, Jeff!

Mel, Rubin, you are correct, the church is close to the track.  I slid it out a bit and here is a view with an 18" passenger car.  Yes, still pretty tight. 

The sidewalk could be right up to the building, though I don't really like it.

The rest of the buildings aren't really close.  Yes, this view is by holding the smartphone over the dryer looking through the window with my wife's curtains at the top.  I'll come back to that when I reply to Jeff's comment below.

Jeff, I ended up using 054 curves on the upper level and all over the layout except for the yard lead which has 042.  I made the top level top 32" deep just like the original lower level.  The front edge of the track is about 26" from the edge of the layout.  I could extend the front edge 4 or 6 inches and reach the back of the area I'm scenicing.  If I need to access the track behind the buildings, I can slide out the dryer for access through the window.  I did that to wire the track and switches.  I'll take a good look at how best to extend the town out a few more inches.  Thank you for your observation and suggestion.

The fire tower has been there.  I have some campers there and am planning to plant trees.  So many things to do.    My daughter who did the 3D printing gave me the sasquatch and the produce stand.  I just put them there for the time being, and may move them, though the 'squatch would still be fun approaching the campers. 

Taking Jeff’s suggestion, I mocked up an extension by slipping Bristol board underneath the lift up panels.  Six inches is too far for me to reach at a height of 50”, but 4” works out well.  Now I just need to decide how to best attach the extension and then move things around.

While I was at it, I discovered I can extend the base for the Sanky Wanky Coffee Company too.

Mark, the idea is to have the section easily removable, but big enough so that a house can be completely on the section. 1/2 on 1/2 off is no longer easy to remove. A couple of cleats attached under the stationary section which extend 1/2 to 3/4 out can provide a base to set the extension on. You will probably need an iron "l" bracket on the right side.  Do not make this harder than it needs to be. For power I use stereo banana plugs and 16 gauge lamp cord wire.  Easy to remove, easy to plug back in.

FWIW - One of our student researchers started a company called Electron Inks. They moved to Texas several years ago.  They developed an ink pen which laid down conductive lines. I always thought about using that stuff for wiring buildings. They used to sell an experiment kit for school kids to learn electronics. Kids would draw circuits on paper and apply battery power.  The company is still there, but I am not seeing any of their products being available at the moment.  Would be something to consider in addition to conductive tape.     

Thank you, Jeff.  Yes, doing it easy and making sure buildings don't straddle a seam would be good.  I have some material here I can use.  The stereo plugs would be easy to unplug.  Good idea.  I have heard of  pens that make conductive traces, but have never seen one for real.  That certainly would be easy.

Mark, I have fallen behind on your progress and am now catching up. Life gets in the way of our hobbies sometimes. I love the town progress, I think the street and sidewalk dimensions are spot on. I am going to use these on my town. You will come to love the 3D printing. Nothing has changed the way I model and construct my layout like learning the 3D printing aspect. Don't give up on it. And having your daughter help....Priceless. You can literally make whatever you want with free online programs, and free online stl files, many of which on OGR!  Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing!

Mike

Mark, The work looks amazing. I will have to take an evening, make a cup of hot chocolate, and get caught up on your progress.

John Rowlen

Mark, your making things look great! I like the movement of your building and the extension of your bench work! Sorry i didn't comment earlier but will do the best to keep up to speed on your post! Keep up the wonderful work and don't forget to take some time to run your trains!

Guys....the idle chit-chat was deleted.  How many times do we have to ask you guys to stay on topic?  If you want to talk about your diseases, aches and pains, the weather, etc., do so via private messaging!

Thank you, Mike, John, Mike!

I've been working for the last 10 days, a little at a time, on expanding the town area into the aisle by 4 inches as was suggested.  I now have buildings moved back in approximate locations and trains back on tracks.  I cut 8 inch deep sections of the same plywood I had used for the lift ups.  Then I removed each of the lift up panels and removed 4 inches from the front of each.  This was necessary so that the bracket holding the new piece onto the old would lower behind the cross piece the lift ups rest on when lowered.

After both of the lift ups were finished and reinstalled, I added 1x2 bracing to the front of the lift ups.  I attached that to the left side of the roadbed as someone suggested.  I also did a similar extension for the Coffee Company building.  Now everything is nice and solid.  I just replaced buildings in a similar manner and added a house.  That area is probably too crowded, and one building will have to be removed.

Here is a better view of the clearance for the tracks emerging from under the right hand side.  The car carrier with pickups is my highest car.

Here is looking down the street again and looking at clearance in the backs of the buildings.

Thank you for looking.

I'd leave all the buildings onboard; remember, developed/occupied real estate is more tax revenue for the town!

Looks great Mark. You sure have been busy. I have a question though, how hard is it to lift out?

I am with Dave ibwould leave the buildings the way they are right now and let it sink in to see if you like them or want a change.

I like all the buildings together Mark. I think the more you have the more interesting the town becomes. Can’t wait to see tracks in the area! Thanks for sharing.

Mike

Mark I also agree with leaving the buildings as you have them looks great.

Thank you, Dave, Mike, Mike, Rick!

Well, it seems folks say leave the buildings!  Yes, tax revenue!  I was in one Allegheny River town on Saturday and observed how they had crammed so many old buildings into that narrow spot by the river, so I get it!!    Thank you everyone!

Mike g, here are some photographs showing one of the lift ups propped up.  I stuck the buildings on it with loops of painters tape so I could show you.  Lightweight and easy to hold up while I got the stick into position.  The photographs show the underside of construction, and yes I could stand to add some bracing to the plywood.  That will be easy to do.  I wanted to make sure the concept worked.

Here is a better view of the tracks underneath.  Five tracks.  From rear to front:

1. approach track to the grade to the upper level

2. lower level

3. yard track 1

4. yard track 2

5. programming/rip track

Did someone say, “more buildings?”  Here are some more.

Mark thank for the photos and the explanation on how it works.  It sure is looking wonderful!

Thank you, Mike!

I didn’t do much more, but got thinking of how I am going to scenic both ends of this upper level.  Two multi-track tunnel portals of some sort would be in order.  Here is a foam board mock up of one on the right.  Scenery in the form of a hill with a road will be to right of the portal.  I suppose I could extend a fascia of stone to the left of the portal to cover the open area to the left of the portal.  Something to consider.

I’ll address the left side under the Sanky Wanky Coffee building and bridge in the days to come.

@Mark Boyce Good job incorporating ideas from the peanut gallery!  Creating real estate is a fun surprise.  Here in Kansas City there is an abandoned Rock Island bridge over the Kansas River that is being developed into an entertainment venue - they created real estate by building overhanging platforms and a second level on the bridge.  Should be open this summer.  Your hinged access under the town is slick and looks easy to use.

Hhi Mark I like the idea of the wall on the left, you could have ivy running down the wall to make it more realistic.

Thank you, Dan, Mike!!

Dan, that’s a really neat idea for that truss bridge in Kansas City!  I live out in the country, 40 miles north of Pittsburgh.  I can’t imagine Pittsburgh politicians ever going for such an innovative idea!  😄. It certainly is food for thought for us modelers!

Mike, you are right, there has to be something of interest to break the sameness of a long wall.  Counting under the Sanky Wanky Coffee Company and the other tunnel to the far left, I have about 8 feet of space to consider.  Of course corners will help.

I'm sure you will get it looking great 👍

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike!

I didn’t do much more, but got thinking of how I am going to scenic both ends of this upper level.  Two multi-track tunnel portals of some sort would be in order.  Here is a foam board mock up of one on the right.  Scenery in the form of a hill with a road will be to right of the portal.  I suppose I could extend a fascia of stone to the left of the portal to cover the open area to the left of the portal.  Something to consider.

I’ll address the left side under the Sanky Wanky Coffee building and bridge in the days to come.

Mark,

You’re rattling my cage here, I’ve thought about closing up this space but haven’t come up with a plan; with three track clearances and the elevator track. Every time I look at  I get distracted.

The only shot  that I have of the other side isn’t very helpful. The local track is in front of the garbage truck. The two mains are to the right of the building. There are actually 3 tracks because the outside main splits in two just behind the garbage truck  

Mark, great work on the town.  As the head of the town fathers, you do need to ensure that the town has a sustainable tax base.

Thank you, Mike, Bob, Kevin!

Bob, yes I see that would be quite an engineering challenge on your layout!  I can see why you would get distracted.  Maybe you should just consider your layout to resemble the triple crossing in Richmond, Virginia.  There is a great staged photograph of it back in the Chessie-Seaboard-Southern days at the american-rails.com/triple-crossing.html Web site.  They have several staged photographs from different eras on that same page.  I was working in Richmond during that time period; mid '70s.  Unfortunately, I was only ever able to see one train at a time.  As they say; there is a prototype for everything.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike, Bob, Kevin!

Bob, yes I see that would be quite an engineering challenge on your layout!  I can see why you would get distracted.  Maybe you should just consider your layout to resemble the triple crossing in Richmond, Virginia.  There is a great staged photograph of it back in the Chessie-Seaboard-Southern days at the american-rails.com/triple-crossing.html Web site.  They have several staged photographs from different eras on that same page.  I was working in Richmond during that time period; mid '70s.  Unfortunately, I was only ever able to see one train at a time.  As they say; there is a prototype for everything.

Thanks Mark, I have a shot like that. I’ll have to dig it out. Also I realized after I posted that that I should have shown this scene as well. It’s behind the hideous post that I’ve been painting black for a year. To the left of the outside main.

Bob, yes that is a good view.  It reminds me of the film noir movies where someone is in a fleabag hotel and you keep hearing the cars from the El outside the window.  Is that how you spell the El?  That was how my town was going to look before forum members suggested the yard and put the town on the upper level.

Yes it does, and EL is spelled EL.

Great Job Mark with making the upper level, and I know you will do a fantastic job putting scenery on that deck.

Thank you, Myles, John!

I laid out the streets again.  Not much else to report.

Oh, I forgot the photographs.

You're doing a fantastic job Mark!

Looking good Mark.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Oh, I forgot the photographs.

Mark, this building set up looks quite fitting. I look forward to your subtle changes.

Gene

Hi Mark- been lurking around for the most part lately but have been following along.

The town is shaping up. The tunnel portal mock-up looks good. Just remember to check clearances, and check them again, and again!

Bob

Thank you, Darrell, Joe, Gene, Bob!

Bob, your comment about clearance can't be emphasized enough.  The B&O SD9 is the most troublesome engine I have in that regard.  When I build the finished portal, I'll give it some more room besides this.

I do have a four car set of 18" passenger cars.  They don't work on that lower loop track, but do on the lower outer track that leads to the grade up.  I purchased them after I put in all the supports for the upper level behind the town.  Instead of ripping it all out, I decided to just make that one small section of track restricted from that train.

I am considering what material to use for the streets.  I would like some brick streets, since close to 20% of the streets in Butler have never been paved over.  Our older daughter lives on a winding brick hill leading into town that I have observed the bricks shift with time and the lines look wavy.  That would be challenging and visually not worth the effort.  There are a couple blocks near our younger daughter, that one can see where the street car tracks had been located.  That is interesting, but a challenge where the tracks had curved to the perpendicular block.  @ScoutingDad Jeff described the challenges using an embossing wheel on clay to get the effect on his street car track.  I don't think I want to go there.  Since the part of the streets that I would make brick are straight, I am considering using the Plastruct brick material I have left over from building the church.  At one spot, the street just angles instead of curves.  Near our younger daughter's house, there is a street like that.  They just cut the bricks to make the angle, much like cutting the Plastruct material.  In the photograph below, a few swipes of a sanding block smoothed the sections of scraps and made for smoother bricks that have seen over a century of traffic.  I would sand that material some more I think.  The curbs here in Butler are all cut sandstone.  I don't know if trying to model that instead of concrete would be noticeable.  All food for thought.

We live just outside of town, so our road is asphalt.  Growing up, our road was just layers of tar and chips over the years.  That would be my choice for outside of town.

It's sometimes not the front pilot that collides. I can be other parts of the equipment. I had a collision with a portal with the 2nd unit of the MTH Pennsy Centipede since it swung so wide. Keep testing everything.

Mark, from this distance the sanded brick looks very realistic.  That's a great idea!

Just a notion... I'm wondering if maybe some sort of darker colored wash applied and wiped off to prior to sanding would give the appearance of road dirt/grime in between the brick joints, if you want that kind of look.  Maybe not if you want a cleaner /lighter look like the test pieces are now.  I'm definitely no scenery expert.

Good morning Mark your town is really starting to take shape, I think the bench work addition really made a difference. As for the street I am sure anything you come up with will be great, you could always try to cut the brick work like they do a piece of paper to make a turn. I would practice on some paper first if you decide to try that. Good luck and I will be watching!

Mark, I really like how the panel can be raised to access the tracks below. I’ve always recommended landscaping be done a removable platforms, but the hinge idea is great. I have to say the design is really expanding from what we started with. I don’t suppose you’ve been updating the SCARM file?

@Mark Boyce  Mark, as it turns out making the clay streets is not all that bothersome.  The brick streets are easy to roll out and emboss.  The key is to use a "modified" air hardening clay such as NARA or DAS. I can get NARA at HobbyLobby usually on sale for 50% off basically $2 per pack. I'll roll the clay out on a modelling mat and trim to have straight sides. Then let it dry for a day or two. 2 mils seems to be a decent thickness. It will shrink a little and can get wavy if it dries too fast from one side than the other. The clay is rolled out to 12 to 18 inches long and 4 inches wide (the width of the roller). Paint like any other plastic form. Once dry I trim with a pair of scissors or hobby knife.  Way cheaper than buying the plastic brick sheets. Bricks are roughly 2mmx8mm.  Typical building bricks are 1.5mmx4mm.  So for streets the bricks look fine, they may be a touch too big for buildings.

NOTE: I tried using natural unmodified clays, but found they shrink a lot and have little strength in thin sheets. I have searched for the chemistry behind the so called "polymer" or "modified" clays and had moderate success in getting specific details.  NARA is supposedly made from corn starch, fibers and water. Not really a clay.

Thank you, Myles, Steve, Mike, Dave, Jeff!

Myles, I'm sure the Centipede does swing wide and can believe the second unit would be as bad or worse.  I will keep testing going each direction.  One thing that is good is that My portals are just temporary to give me a better idea of how the scene will look.

Steve, I agree the gaps between bricks need to be dark.  I notice there are darker bricks scattered among the others.  Here are some photographs I took last fall.

This is South Main Street.  The bricks didn't shift in a wavy pattern like they did on the windy street 1/10 of a mile away where our older daughter lives.

Mike, the 4 inches on the front gave me enough room behind the far buildings so I won't have any concerns about clearances as Myles pointed out.

Dave, I did update the SCARM including what you did way back when, what Jeff suggested, and then alterations I did.  What I didn't do is add the extra depth to the brown town platform.

Jeff, you convinced me that I owe it to myself to give the  "modified" air hardening clay a try.  Thank you very much for the suggestions on your posts a few weeks ago and here today!  Here is a photograph to show the size of the bricks compared to my hand.  I didn't think to take a ruler when I took the photographs in October.  Of course, the size will be dependent on the roller I get and not my own measurements.

I decided to make a separate post showing what I did yesterday.  This photograph shows a dilemma with the arrangement before yesterday.  The street leaves town over top of the tunnel portal and tracks.  There could be a prototype, but I think it would certainly be unique.

Moving the fire house and putting the street over where the firetruck were makes more sense.  Then it becomes an issue to decide where to put the fire house.  Here is what I came up with last evening.

I'm not sure I lie the fire house there, but it could work.  Keep in mind I will eventually be building kits or scratch built one-story buildings to put in the place of the MTH houses.  I will want some really nice models right up front.  Of course that will probably take a few years. 

@Mark Boyce  Mark, I am sure NY has similar tracks, the link is an end view of the tracks leading into Union Station.  In the city it is quite common to have buildings over the tracks. So if Chicago can do it so can you.  That's not mentioning the subways.

Chicago commuter tracks

Mark, the new title of "New Real Estate" got my creative juices flowing. Congratulations! Acquiring new real estate is every model railroaders dream since the dawn of time

For the road going off the elevated section, consider a bridge. The picture below is not exactly your situation, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't work. BTW: the bridge shown are MTH plastic truss bridges and I have "Streets" track on them.

Thank you, Jeff, Paul!

Yes, bring me back to my senses. 

Jeff, while my town in no way resembles Chicago, your point is not lost.

Paul, I have tried to encourage others with basic titles to their threads to come up with something that catches people's attention.  Sometimes I even come up with something catchy myself.  Yes 4 inches by 4 feet isn't much, but it is better than what I had.  Your example is similar to my situation too.

I did not like the fire house where I put it yesterday, so I moved it back.  I had been fiddling with an old River Leaf bridge kit I bought several years ago because I like the open concrete railings.  So I mocked it up a little better than over the weekend.

I hadn't liked it because the bridge railings are laser cut to work on a horizontal bridge.  The end of the bridge will be above track level, then a road would have to descend into what I had imagined as my river valley.  Since we reworked the track plan to make two loops with two opposite ramps, I lost part of that concept.  I had just been thinking the river is unseen under the lift up bridges on the other side of the layout.

Maybe I should take Paul's example and just have the river go under the rear tracks and the highway bridge high above, then suggest it dives under the foreground tracks and be done with it.  Then I can develop some sloping land and some small structures where the river was to go.  Hopefully I haven't confused everyone! 

Jeff, I looked on your Twin Pines thread to see what roller you used for the brick pattern.  Back in August you referred to it in the "What did you do on your layout today" thread, but I would probably get lost in a black hole looking there.  I decided it was easier to ask you here. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Jeff, I looked on your Twin Pines thread to see what roller you used for the brick pattern.  Back in August you referred to it in the "What did you do on your layout today" thread, but I would probably get lost in a black hole looking there.  I decided it was easier to ask you here. 

I'd like to know too.

Guys, i bought the roller off etsy from a vendor G28MachinistCrafts.  He was able to print a new roller 90 degrees to the original. Small brick texture roller. Make sure you pick the direction you want. Vertical pattern lets you roll long sections with the bricks running 90 degrees to the direction of the street. Sidewalks could go either way.

Note the clay does not like to cut so trim to width before embossing. Try a few test rolls to see how hard you have to press to get the print you want.  Jeff

There is a duplicate pattern in both rollers he was not able to fix. Basically 2 rows line up with each other. I tend to see patterns in images data and graphs, so this jumped out to me. He said I was the first to notice. Go figure.

Thank you, Jeff!  I will look online for the roller and clay today.  There isn’t a Hobby Lobby anywhere near us, but I am guessing they have an online store.  I’ll see what G28MachinistCrafts has.

Mark I think your on the right track, on my old layout I need a way for freight trucks to get in and out of my Coors plant so I just put a bridge up that goes out to no where! Here is a photo of the bridge being guarded by Batman in the second photo.

Thank you, Mike!  The two photographs of your high highway bridge do look convincing!  I had forgotten about it!  I'm glad Batman has things under control.  Superman is the guy who shows up on my layout without me knowing it.  I repositioned him for this photograph.

@Mark Boyce

Superman really gets around. He has been seen in the skies over our city of Christopolis.

@Randy Harrison posted:

@Mark Boyce

Superman really gets around. He has been seen in the skies over our city of Christopolis.

That he does, Randy!!  Superman!

@ScoutingDad posted:

Guys, i bought the roller off etsy from a vendor G28MachinistCrafts.  He was able to print a new roller 90 degrees to the original. Small brick texture roller. Make sure you pick the direction you want. Vertical pattern lets you roll long sections with the bricks running 90 degrees to the direction of the street. Sidewalks could go either way.

Note the clay does not like to cut so trim to width before embossing. Try a few test rolls to see how hard you have to press to get the print you want.  Jeff

There is a duplicate pattern in both rollers he was not able to fix. Basically 2 rows line up with each other. I tend to see patterns in images data and graphs, so this jumped out to me. He said I was the first to notice. Go figure.

Jeff, I have the roller and NARA clay on order.  Thank you very much for the assistance!

I have been looking for a mid-century garage or service station that one would have expected to see in a small West Virginia town.  One finally jumped out at me on Bar Mills Models website, so I ordered one.  It is the Lenny's Truck Service Garage. https://barmillsmodels.com/pro...ge/?attribute_ho-o=O

This model jumped out at me since it looked like a couple of garages I recall seeing when I was growing up.  I'll post a photograph of the cover, instruction sheet, or whatever has a photograph of their finished model when I receive it.  I am thinking it will go at the front of the layout across the street from the Burger Hut (the building with the big "EAT" sign).  That way it could be viewed pretty well, but not take away from the "downtown" two story buildings.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Jeff!  I will look online for the roller and clay today.  There isn’t a Hobby Lobby anywhere near us, but I am guessing they have an online store.  I’ll see what G28MachinistCrafts has.

Mark I found Hobby Lobby on line they show different clays. I wasn’t sure what you were looking for.

Thank you, Bob!

Jeff said a "modified" air hardening clay such as NARA or DAS.  I typed in NARA, and it popped right up.  I ordered several.  I’ll see how it goes. 😊

I also learned on the website there is a Hobby Lobby in Cranberry Township about 45 minutes from home.  I don’t like to drive there because of the traffic, but it is good to keep in mind.

Mark, looking forward to your garage build. I checked out that kit at the Springfield show. Very nice and a good size that you can always seem to find a spot for.  I’m still looking though. I like the Bar Mills kits as they go together nicely with great instructions. I also have a soft spot for garages. Probably because I worked in one my whole life and no research is needed for adding details. If you shop around there are tons of detail castings you can add well after the build is complete.

Warning. If your like me. The details add up and can quickly exceed the initial cost of the structure. Especially if you model an open door and do the inside as well as the outside.

Mark, thanks for the BarMills link. Ive seen their stuff but never got to their website. I am tired of plastic buildings, so one of their kits is interesting. I have the Tavern but from Menards. Its My favorite building due to all the wood details. Currently working on a couple of Korber resin buildings as backdrop buildings. Have several more Walthers O plastic buildings and DownTown Decos to build.

Regarding tbe clay, knead the clay for a while to help soften it up prior to rolling. You should notice the texture getting smoother as you work it.

Thank you, Dave, Jeff!

Dave, you are so right about details.  They can really run up in cost.  I thought I would look at the kit when I get it and decide if I can make the doors closed for the time being, but easily opened/removed for details later.  I have several buildings now that I left the roofs removable so I can add details later.

Jeff, I looked over some of the videos on Bar Mills website and they seem very nice.  I have a couple plastic buildings that I'm not in a hurry to build.  Thank you for the tip about kneading the clay first.

Since I last wrote, I received 3 of the 4 orders I placed last week.  I have 6 packages of the NARA clay and am still awaiting the roller.  I mentioned on another thread that I placed an order for one each of packages of Presier seated passengers and standing passengers to try my hand at painting some people as John Rowland has described in his threads.  We will see how that goes.

Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.

Here's what's inside, Jeff.  There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.

The instructions are well done.  There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof.  I think those are quite excellent.  The finished building will fit great in this location.

In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago.  The parts are all glued except for the piers.  The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them.  I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house.  I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level.  I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.

Thank you for taking a look!!

The problem with roads is that they have to end somewhere unless they're looped around the layout which most people don't have room for.

For a road end, I've tried using a crossing gate, orange barrels (w/flashing light), or a jersey barrier with yellow caution reflective tape.

Mark I can't wait to see what you co.e up with in regards to the road. I know you will do an amazing job on the new kits and will be perfect on the layout!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service

The instructions are well done.  There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof.  I think those are quite excellent.  The finished building will fit great in this location.

In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago.  The parts are all glued except for the piers.  The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them.  I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house.  I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level.  I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.

Thank you for taking a look!!

Mark, I’m liking that bridge, it fits nicely there. I’ll be curious how you like the Bar Mills build. All my buildings on the layout are wood kits. Most are from Banta Modelworks, which are very high quality and an excellent build and American Model Builders (unfortunately they recently closedown). I enjoy building wood kits. If I had room, I’d try a Bar Mills too.

Gene

@Mark Boyce posted:

...

Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.

Here's what's inside, Jeff.  There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.

The instructions are well done.  There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof.  I think those are quite excellent.  The finished building will fit great in this location.

...

That kit looks interesting.  Looking forward to progress reports.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Since I last wrote, I received 3 of the 4 orders I placed last week.  I have 6 packages of the NARA clay and am still awaiting the roller.  I mentioned on another thread that I placed an order for one each of packages of Presier seated passengers and standing passengers to try my hand at painting some people as John Rowland has described in his threads.  We will see how that goes.

Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.

Here's what's inside, Jeff.  There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.

The instructions are well done.  There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof.  I think those are quite excellent.  The finished building will fit great in this location.

In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago.  The parts are all glued except for the piers.  The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them.  I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house.  I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level.  I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.

Thank you for taking a look!!

Mark, I’m getting tired just reading about what you’re accomplishing. I can’t wait to see future installments. I never saw John Rowland’s threads. Do you have a link?

@Richie C. posted:

The problem with roads is that they have to end somewhere unless they're looped around the layout which most people don't have room for.

For a road end, I've tried using a crossing gate, orange barrels (w/flashing light), or a jersey barrier with yellow caution reflective tape.

Richie C. Nice pictures, IMHO using barriers etc draws attention to the end of the layout. If the road goes to the edge of the table, imagination takes over. Here’s a shot of one such road. Note the road to the  right of the track is under construction because a new engine with low slung hardware got caught on it  

Wow Mark! Miss a couple days and all sorts of stuff happens.....😂😂😂😂

Keep the creative juices flowing.

Bob

Thank you, Richie, Mike, Gene, Mallard, Bob @pennsyfan, Bob @RSJB18!

Richie, your street solutions look good.  I do have one road that I am going to block with Jersey barriers my daughter, Heidi, printed.  They still need painted. 

Mike, I can't wait to see what I come up with for the road too!  LOL  I have it in my head, but haven't had success in the past drawing it out like @myles showed us recently on the "what did you do on your layout today" thread.

Gene, I painted the bridge a gray color last evening and have selected a couple tans to try to work in for an aged look.  The bridge has end posts etched with the year 1935 which is a nice feature.  If my layout era is roughly 1950, the bridge would have weathered, but not an excessive amount.  I have never built a Banta Modelworks or American Model Builders kits.  I used to like to use styrene when I was modeling in N scale in the 1980s and '90s, though I did build some wood kits then.  Now that I have done more wood, I like it more I think.

Mallard, the kit is an interesting blend of sidings and they include a nice array of detail parts.  Of course a garage could always use more, especially if the interior is detailed.

Bob @pennsyfan Here is the most recent thread @John Rowlen has posted showing how he details passengers for his cars.  https://ogrforum.com/topic/det...y-john-rowlen?page=2  The description on painting passengers is on a post dated 12/28/24 on that page.  You could pull up his profile and find other car and passenger threads.

Bob @RSJB18 As with your threads, you never know when you may miss something interesting! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Richie, Mike, Gene, Mallard, Bob @pennsyfan, Bob @RSJB18!

Richie, your street solutions look good.  I do have one road that I am going to block with Jersey barriers my daughter, Heidi, printed.  They still need painted.

Mike, I can't wait to see what I come up with for the road too!  LOL  I have it in my head, but haven't had success in the past drawing it out like @myles showed us recently on the "what did you do on your layout today" thread.

Gene, I painted the bridge a gray color last evening and have selected a couple tans to try to work in for an aged look.  The bridge has end posts etched with the year 1935 which is a nice feature.  If my layout era is roughly 1950, the bridge would have weathered, but not an excessive amount.  I have never built a Banta Modelworks or American Model Builders kits.  I used to like to use styrene when I was modeling in N scale in the 1980s and '90s, though I did build some wood kits then.  Now that I have done more wood, I like it more I think.

Mallard, the kit is an interesting blend of sidings and they include a nice array of detail parts.  Of course a garage could always use more, especially if the interior is detailed.

Bob @pennsyfan Here is the most recent thread @John Rowlen has posted showing how he details passengers for his cars.  https://ogrforum.com/topic/det...y-john-rowlen?page=2  The description on painting passengers is on a post dated 12/28/24 on that page.  You could pull up his profile and find other car and passenger threads.

Bob @RSJB18 As with your threads, you never know when you may miss something interesting! 

My jersey barriers have thin 1/4" yellow/black caution tape applied across the tops - should be available in small rolls on the 'bay, if you're interested.

Thank you, Richie!

Your Jersey barriers look good with the caution tape.  That is a nice touch to make them stand out.  Initially I was going to just put a barricade of 2 posts in the ground with two boards across, all painted white, as would be expected in the 1950s.  Then my daughter made these 3D printed Jersey Barriers, so I will use them.

I rearranged the buildings some to have the street access the bridge better.  My previous arrangement wasn't allowing enough road width on the right hand curve.

The base for the garage is to the left of the green house.  The area to the right of it was too narrow for any of my buildings, so I parked some cars.

I would like to keep this area open countryside between the back three tracks and the front two.  That long gap is only about 10 inches wide. 

I may put unused houses on this area, or maybe won't

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Richie!

Your Jersey barriers look good with the caution tape.  That is a nice touch to make them stand out.  Initially I was going to just put a barricade of 2 posts in the ground with two boards across, all painted white, as would be expected in the 1950s.  Then my daughter made these 3D printed Jersey Barriers, so I will use them.

I rearranged the buildings some to have the street access the bridge better.  My previous arrangement wasn't allowing enough road width on the right hand curve.

The base for the garage is to the left of the green house.  The area to the right of it was too narrow for any of my buildings, so I parked some cars.

I would like to keep this area open countryside between the back three tracks and the front two.  That long gap is only about 10 inches wide.

I may put unused houses on this area, or maybe won't

Things are looking good Mark, I think k the idea of.parki g the cars on the right side of the green house was a nice idea. In the last photo it doesn't look like you have much room behind g the houses and church for scenery.  I maybe wrong but I think it looks good!