Looking good Mark.
@Mark Boyce posted:Oh, I forgot the photographs.
Mark, this building set up looks quite fitting. I look forward to your subtle changes.
Gene
Hi Mark- been lurking around for the most part lately but have been following along.
The town is shaping up. The tunnel portal mock-up looks good. Just remember to check clearances, and check them again, and again! 
Bob
Thank you, Darrell, Joe, Gene, Bob!
Bob, your comment about clearance can't be emphasized enough. The B&O SD9 is the most troublesome engine I have in that regard. When I build the finished portal, I'll give it some more room besides this.
I do have a four car set of 18" passenger cars. They don't work on that lower loop track, but do on the lower outer track that leads to the grade up. I purchased them after I put in all the supports for the upper level behind the town. Instead of ripping it all out, I decided to just make that one small section of track restricted from that train.
I am considering what material to use for the streets. I would like some brick streets, since close to 20% of the streets in Butler have never been paved over. Our older daughter lives on a winding brick hill leading into town that I have observed the bricks shift with time and the lines look wavy. That would be challenging and visually not worth the effort. There are a couple blocks near our younger daughter, that one can see where the street car tracks had been located. That is interesting, but a challenge where the tracks had curved to the perpendicular block. @ScoutingDad Jeff described the challenges using an embossing wheel on clay to get the effect on his street car track. I don't think I want to go there. Since the part of the streets that I would make brick are straight, I am considering using the Plastruct brick material I have left over from building the church. At one spot, the street just angles instead of curves. Near our younger daughter's house, there is a street like that. They just cut the bricks to make the angle, much like cutting the Plastruct material. In the photograph below, a few swipes of a sanding block smoothed the sections of scraps and made for smoother bricks that have seen over a century of traffic. I would sand that material some more I think. The curbs here in Butler are all cut sandstone. I don't know if trying to model that instead of concrete would be noticeable. All food for thought.
We live just outside of town, so our road is asphalt. Growing up, our road was just layers of tar and chips over the years. That would be my choice for outside of town.
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It's sometimes not the front pilot that collides. I can be other parts of the equipment. I had a collision with a portal with the 2nd unit of the MTH Pennsy Centipede since it swung so wide. Keep testing everything.
Mark, from this distance the sanded brick looks very realistic. That's a great idea!
Just a notion... I'm wondering if maybe some sort of darker colored wash applied and wiped off to prior to sanding would give the appearance of road dirt/grime in between the brick joints, if you want that kind of look. Maybe not if you want a cleaner /lighter look like the test pieces are now. I'm definitely no scenery expert. 
Good morning Mark your town is really starting to take shape, I think the bench work addition really made a difference. As for the street I am sure anything you come up with will be great, you could always try to cut the brick work like they do a piece of paper to make a turn. I would practice on some paper first if you decide to try that. Good luck and I will be watching!
Mark, I really like how the panel can be raised to access the tracks below. I’ve always recommended landscaping be done a removable platforms, but the hinge idea is great. I have to say the design is really expanding from what we started with. I don’t suppose you’ve been updating the SCARM file?
@Mark Boyce Mark, as it turns out making the clay streets is not all that bothersome. The brick streets are easy to roll out and emboss. The key is to use a "modified" air hardening clay such as NARA or DAS. I can get NARA at HobbyLobby usually on sale for 50% off basically $2 per pack. I'll roll the clay out on a modelling mat and trim to have straight sides. Then let it dry for a day or two. 2 mils seems to be a decent thickness. It will shrink a little and can get wavy if it dries too fast from one side than the other. The clay is rolled out to 12 to 18 inches long and 4 inches wide (the width of the roller). Paint like any other plastic form. Once dry I trim with a pair of scissors or hobby knife. Way cheaper than buying the plastic brick sheets. Bricks are roughly 2mmx8mm. Typical building bricks are 1.5mmx4mm. So for streets the bricks look fine, they may be a touch too big for buildings.
NOTE: I tried using natural unmodified clays, but found they shrink a lot and have little strength in thin sheets. I have searched for the chemistry behind the so called "polymer" or "modified" clays and had moderate success in getting specific details. NARA is supposedly made from corn starch, fibers and water. Not really a clay.
Thank you, Myles, Steve, Mike, Dave, Jeff!
Myles, I'm sure the Centipede does swing wide and can believe the second unit would be as bad or worse. I will keep testing going each direction. One thing that is good is that My portals are just temporary to give me a better idea of how the scene will look.
Steve, I agree the gaps between bricks need to be dark. I notice there are darker bricks scattered among the others. Here are some photographs I took last fall.
This is South Main Street. The bricks didn't shift in a wavy pattern like they did on the windy street 1/10 of a mile away where our older daughter lives.
Mike, the 4 inches on the front gave me enough room behind the far buildings so I won't have any concerns about clearances as Myles pointed out.
Dave, I did update the SCARM including what you did way back when, what Jeff suggested, and then alterations I did. What I didn't do is add the extra depth to the brown town platform.
Jeff, you convinced me that I owe it to myself to give the "modified" air hardening clay a try. Thank you very much for the suggestions on your posts a few weeks ago and here today! Here is a photograph to show the size of the bricks compared to my hand. I didn't think to take a ruler when I took the photographs in October. Of course, the size will be dependent on the roller I get and not my own measurements.
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I decided to make a separate post showing what I did yesterday. This photograph shows a dilemma with the arrangement before yesterday. The street leaves town over top of the tunnel portal and tracks. There could be a prototype, but I think it would certainly be unique.
Moving the fire house and putting the street over where the firetruck were makes more sense. Then it becomes an issue to decide where to put the fire house. Here is what I came up with last evening.
I'm not sure I lie the fire house there, but it could work. Keep in mind I will eventually be building kits or scratch built one-story buildings to put in the place of the MTH houses. I will want some really nice models right up front. Of course that will probably take a few years.
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@Mark Boyce Mark, I am sure NY has similar tracks, the link is an end view of the tracks leading into Union Station. In the city it is quite common to have buildings over the tracks. So if Chicago can do it so can you. That's not mentioning the subways.
Mark, the new title of "New Real Estate" got my creative juices flowing. Congratulations! Acquiring new real estate is every model railroaders dream since the dawn of time 
For the road going off the elevated section, consider a bridge. The picture below is not exactly your situation, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't work. BTW: the bridge shown are MTH plastic truss bridges and I have "Streets" track on them.
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Thank you, Jeff, Paul!
Yes, bring me back to my senses.
Jeff, while my town in no way resembles Chicago, your point is not lost.
Paul, I have tried to encourage others with basic titles to their threads to come up with something that catches people's attention. Sometimes I even come up with something catchy myself. Yes 4 inches by 4 feet isn't much, but it is better than what I had. Your example is similar to my situation too.
I did not like the fire house where I put it yesterday, so I moved it back. I had been fiddling with an old River Leaf bridge kit I bought several years ago because I like the open concrete railings. So I mocked it up a little better than over the weekend.
I hadn't liked it because the bridge railings are laser cut to work on a horizontal bridge. The end of the bridge will be above track level, then a road would have to descend into what I had imagined as my river valley. Since we reworked the track plan to make two loops with two opposite ramps, I lost part of that concept. I had just been thinking the river is unseen under the lift up bridges on the other side of the layout.
Maybe I should take Paul's example and just have the river go under the rear tracks and the highway bridge high above, then suggest it dives under the foreground tracks and be done with it. Then I can develop some sloping land and some small structures where the river was to go. Hopefully I haven't confused everyone! 
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Jeff, I looked on your Twin Pines thread to see what roller you used for the brick pattern. Back in August you referred to it in the "What did you do on your layout today" thread, but I would probably get lost in a black hole looking there. I decided it was easier to ask you here. 
@Mark Boyce posted:Jeff, I looked on your Twin Pines thread to see what roller you used for the brick pattern. Back in August you referred to it in the "What did you do on your layout today" thread, but I would probably get lost in a black hole looking there. I decided it was easier to ask you here.
I'd like to know too.
Guys, i bought the roller off etsy from a vendor G28MachinistCrafts. He was able to print a new roller 90 degrees to the original. Small brick texture roller. Make sure you pick the direction you want. Vertical pattern lets you roll long sections with the bricks running 90 degrees to the direction of the street. Sidewalks could go either way.
Note the clay does not like to cut so trim to width before embossing. Try a few test rolls to see how hard you have to press to get the print you want. Jeff
There is a duplicate pattern in both rollers he was not able to fix. Basically 2 rows line up with each other. I tend to see patterns in images data and graphs, so this jumped out to me. He said I was the first to notice. Go figure.
Thank you, Jeff! I will look online for the roller and clay today. There isn’t a Hobby Lobby anywhere near us, but I am guessing they have an online store. I’ll see what G28MachinistCrafts has.
Mark I think your on the right track, on my old layout I need a way for freight trucks to get in and out of my Coors plant so I just put a bridge up that goes out to no where! Here is a photo of the bridge being guarded by Batman in the second photo.
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Thank you, Mike! The two photographs of your high highway bridge do look convincing! I had forgotten about it! I'm glad Batman has things under control. Superman is the guy who shows up on my layout without me knowing it. I repositioned him for this photograph.
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Superman really gets around. He has been seen in the skies over our city of Christopolis.
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@Randy Harrison posted:Superman really gets around. He has been seen in the skies over our city of Christopolis.
That he does, Randy!! Superman!
@ScoutingDad posted:Guys, i bought the roller off etsy from a vendor G28MachinistCrafts. He was able to print a new roller 90 degrees to the original. Small brick texture roller. Make sure you pick the direction you want. Vertical pattern lets you roll long sections with the bricks running 90 degrees to the direction of the street. Sidewalks could go either way.
Note the clay does not like to cut so trim to width before embossing. Try a few test rolls to see how hard you have to press to get the print you want. Jeff
There is a duplicate pattern in both rollers he was not able to fix. Basically 2 rows line up with each other. I tend to see patterns in images data and graphs, so this jumped out to me. He said I was the first to notice. Go figure.
Jeff, I have the roller and NARA clay on order. Thank you very much for the assistance!
I have been looking for a mid-century garage or service station that one would have expected to see in a small West Virginia town. One finally jumped out at me on Bar Mills Models website, so I ordered one. It is the Lenny's Truck Service Garage. https://barmillsmodels.com/pro...ge/?attribute_ho-o=O
This model jumped out at me since it looked like a couple of garages I recall seeing when I was growing up. I'll post a photograph of the cover, instruction sheet, or whatever has a photograph of their finished model when I receive it. I am thinking it will go at the front of the layout across the street from the Burger Hut (the building with the big "EAT" sign). That way it could be viewed pretty well, but not take away from the "downtown" two story buildings.
@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you, Jeff! I will look online for the roller and clay today. There isn’t a Hobby Lobby anywhere near us, but I am guessing they have an online store. I’ll see what G28MachinistCrafts has.
Mark I found Hobby Lobby on line they show different clays. I wasn’t sure what you were looking for.
Thank you, Bob!
Jeff said a "modified" air hardening clay such as NARA or DAS. I typed in NARA, and it popped right up. I ordered several. I’ll see how it goes. 😊
I also learned on the website there is a Hobby Lobby in Cranberry Township about 45 minutes from home. I don’t like to drive there because of the traffic, but it is good to keep in mind.
Mark, looking forward to your garage build. I checked out that kit at the Springfield show. Very nice and a good size that you can always seem to find a spot for. I’m still looking though. I like the Bar Mills kits as they go together nicely with great instructions. I also have a soft spot for garages. Probably because I worked in one my whole life and no research is needed for adding details. If you shop around there are tons of detail castings you can add well after the build is complete.
Warning. If your like me. The details add up and can quickly exceed the initial cost of the structure. Especially if you model an open door and do the inside as well as the outside.
Mark, thanks for the BarMills link. Ive seen their stuff but never got to their website. I am tired of plastic buildings, so one of their kits is interesting. I have the Tavern but from Menards. Its My favorite building due to all the wood details. Currently working on a couple of Korber resin buildings as backdrop buildings. Have several more Walthers O plastic buildings and DownTown Decos to build.
Regarding tbe clay, knead the clay for a while to help soften it up prior to rolling. You should notice the texture getting smoother as you work it.
Thank you, Dave, Jeff!
Dave, you are so right about details. They can really run up in cost. I thought I would look at the kit when I get it and decide if I can make the doors closed for the time being, but easily opened/removed for details later. I have several buildings now that I left the roofs removable so I can add details later.
Jeff, I looked over some of the videos on Bar Mills website and they seem very nice. I have a couple plastic buildings that I'm not in a hurry to build. Thank you for the tip about kneading the clay first.
Since I last wrote, I received 3 of the 4 orders I placed last week. I have 6 packages of the NARA clay and am still awaiting the roller. I mentioned on another thread that I placed an order for one each of packages of Presier seated passengers and standing passengers to try my hand at painting some people as John Rowland has described in his threads. We will see how that goes.
Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.
Here's what's inside, Jeff. There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.
The instructions are well done. There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof. I think those are quite excellent. The finished building will fit great in this location.
In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago. The parts are all glued except for the piers. The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them. I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house. I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level. I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.
Thank you for taking a look!!
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The problem with roads is that they have to end somewhere unless they're looped around the layout which most people don't have room for.
For a road end, I've tried using a crossing gate, orange barrels (w/flashing light), or a jersey barrier with yellow caution reflective tape.
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Mark I can't wait to see what you co.e up with in regards to the road. I know you will do an amazing job on the new kits and will be perfect on the layout!
@Mark Boyce posted:Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service
The instructions are well done. There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof. I think those are quite excellent. The finished building will fit great in this location.
In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago. The parts are all glued except for the piers. The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them. I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house. I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level. I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.
Thank you for taking a look!!
Mark, I’m liking that bridge, it fits nicely there. I’ll be curious how you like the Bar Mills build. All my buildings on the layout are wood kits. Most are from Banta Modelworks, which are very high quality and an excellent build and American Model Builders (unfortunately they recently closedown). I enjoy building wood kits. If I had room, I’d try a Bar Mills too.
Gene
@Mark Boyce posted:...
Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.
Here's what's inside, Jeff. There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.
The instructions are well done. There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof. I think those are quite excellent. The finished building will fit great in this location.
...
That kit looks interesting. Looking forward to progress reports.
@Mark Boyce posted:Since I last wrote, I received 3 of the 4 orders I placed last week. I have 6 packages of the NARA clay and am still awaiting the roller. I mentioned on another thread that I placed an order for one each of packages of Presier seated passengers and standing passengers to try my hand at painting some people as John Rowland has described in his threads. We will see how that goes.
Yesterday I received the Bar Mills Lenny's Truck Service kit.
Here's what's inside, Jeff. There is some nice milled board and batten siding for the main part of the building and brick siding for the extension.
The instructions are well done. There is a QR code on the first page that takes you to a YouTube 'Page 2 Page' video where they give an overview of the instruction booklet, why they made some of the parts the way they did, and another QR code to take you to a video about how to make the tar paper roof. I think those are quite excellent. The finished building will fit great in this location.
In the meantime, I worked on the River Leaf Models Balustrade Bridge kit that I bought almost 10 years ago. The parts are all glued except for the piers. The piers seem a bit narrow, but I like them. I will paint and put the bridge in this position near the fire house. I will have the road then curve down hill to near lower track level. I painted the supports black to differentiate the bridge from the background until I put in scenery.
Thank you for taking a look!!
Mark, I’m getting tired just reading about what you’re accomplishing. I can’t wait to see future installments. I never saw John Rowland’s threads. Do you have a link?
@Richie C. posted:The problem with roads is that they have to end somewhere unless they're looped around the layout which most people don't have room for.
For a road end, I've tried using a crossing gate, orange barrels (w/flashing light), or a jersey barrier with yellow caution reflective tape.
Richie C. Nice pictures, IMHO using barriers etc draws attention to the end of the layout. If the road goes to the edge of the table, imagination takes over. Here’s a shot of one such road. Note the road to the right of the track is under construction because a new engine with low slung hardware got caught on it 
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Wow Mark! Miss a couple days and all sorts of stuff happens.....😂😂😂😂
Keep the creative juices flowing.
Bob
Thank you, Richie, Mike, Gene, Mallard, Bob @pennsyfan, Bob @RSJB18!
Richie, your street solutions look good. I do have one road that I am going to block with Jersey barriers my daughter, Heidi, printed. They still need painted.
Mike, I can't wait to see what I come up with for the road too! LOL I have it in my head, but haven't had success in the past drawing it out like @myles showed us recently on the "what did you do on your layout today" thread.
Gene, I painted the bridge a gray color last evening and have selected a couple tans to try to work in for an aged look. The bridge has end posts etched with the year 1935 which is a nice feature. If my layout era is roughly 1950, the bridge would have weathered, but not an excessive amount. I have never built a Banta Modelworks or American Model Builders kits. I used to like to use styrene when I was modeling in N scale in the 1980s and '90s, though I did build some wood kits then. Now that I have done more wood, I like it more I think.
Mallard, the kit is an interesting blend of sidings and they include a nice array of detail parts. Of course a garage could always use more, especially if the interior is detailed.
Bob @pennsyfan Here is the most recent thread @John Rowlen has posted showing how he details passengers for his cars. https://ogrforum.com/topic/det...y-john-rowlen?page=2 The description on painting passengers is on a post dated 12/28/24 on that page. You could pull up his profile and find other car and passenger threads.
Bob @RSJB18 As with your threads, you never know when you may miss something interesting!
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@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you, Richie, Mike, Gene, Mallard, Bob @pennsyfan, Bob @RSJB18!
Richie, your street solutions look good. I do have one road that I am going to block with Jersey barriers my daughter, Heidi, printed. They still need painted.
Mike, I can't wait to see what I come up with for the road too! LOL I have it in my head, but haven't had success in the past drawing it out like @myles showed us recently on the "what did you do on your layout today" thread.
Gene, I painted the bridge a gray color last evening and have selected a couple tans to try to work in for an aged look. The bridge has end posts etched with the year 1935 which is a nice feature. If my layout era is roughly 1950, the bridge would have weathered, but not an excessive amount. I have never built a Banta Modelworks or American Model Builders kits. I used to like to use styrene when I was modeling in N scale in the 1980s and '90s, though I did build some wood kits then. Now that I have done more wood, I like it more I think.
Mallard, the kit is an interesting blend of sidings and they include a nice array of detail parts. Of course a garage could always use more, especially if the interior is detailed.
Bob @pennsyfan Here is the most recent thread @John Rowlen has posted showing how he details passengers for his cars. https://ogrforum.com/topic/det...y-john-rowlen?page=2 The description on painting passengers is on a post dated 12/28/24 on that page. You could pull up his profile and find other car and passenger threads.
Bob @RSJB18 As with your threads, you never know when you may miss something interesting!
My jersey barriers have thin 1/4" yellow/black caution tape applied across the tops - should be available in small rolls on the 'bay, if you're interested.
Thank you, Richie!
Your Jersey barriers look good with the caution tape. That is a nice touch to make them stand out. Initially I was going to just put a barricade of 2 posts in the ground with two boards across, all painted white, as would be expected in the 1950s. Then my daughter made these 3D printed Jersey Barriers, so I will use them.
I rearranged the buildings some to have the street access the bridge better. My previous arrangement wasn't allowing enough road width on the right hand curve.
The base for the garage is to the left of the green house. The area to the right of it was too narrow for any of my buildings, so I parked some cars.
I would like to keep this area open countryside between the back three tracks and the front two. That long gap is only about 10 inches wide.
I may put unused houses on this area, or maybe won't
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@Mark Boyce posted:Thank you, Richie!
Your Jersey barriers look good with the caution tape. That is a nice touch to make them stand out. Initially I was going to just put a barricade of 2 posts in the ground with two boards across, all painted white, as would be expected in the 1950s. Then my daughter made these 3D printed Jersey Barriers, so I will use them.
I rearranged the buildings some to have the street access the bridge better. My previous arrangement wasn't allowing enough road width on the right hand curve.
The base for the garage is to the left of the green house. The area to the right of it was too narrow for any of my buildings, so I parked some cars.
I would like to keep this area open countryside between the back three tracks and the front two. That long gap is only about 10 inches wide.
I may put unused houses on this area, or maybe won't
Things are looking good Mark, I think k the idea of.parki g the cars on the right side of the green house was a nice idea. In the last photo it doesn't look like you have much room behind g the houses and church for scenery. I maybe wrong but I think it looks good!
