Blackwater Canyon Line - September 8, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

Thank you, Dave!!  The 2-6-6-2 is supposed to be out for delivery today.

Do you know when you will be getting a new house?  I hope not long.

I had two packages arrive today.  The first was some more GarGraves 054 curved track from Forum sponsor Henning's Trains.  The second was the new locomotive from Forum sponsor Mr. Muffin.  I inspected the 2-6-6-2 and it looks great.  I briefly ran it back and forth on some track and tried it on 054 curve.  I had the smoke off, and did not try many functions, but so far so good.  Thank you for looking!

   that is awesome Mark !!   very NICE !   great looking locomotive !

That's one beautiful looking engine, Mark.

Mark, that’s a fantastic looking locomotive, the Western Maryland logo is very unique and colorful. Congratulations, and I hope you get many years of enjoyment with your trains and the nice layout your building. I always think of the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads and valleys as the stage, for our trains as characters to run through.  Keep up the great work, keep us posted as you make progress on your Blackwater Canyon Line. Happy Railroading 

Brian, Pat, Larry, Thank you very much!  Larry, I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon.  Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical.  But everything needs a good foundation.  Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!

Great-looking engine in WM colours - nice pick, Mark 

Firewood, thank you!

Beautiful engine, Mark. The only thing better than steam is BIG steam!!!

Mark 

  Should look good pulling coal on the Hi Iron!

Al

That's a beaut alright Mark! Nice pickup

Beautiful engine, and glad you got a deal on it.  How is the clearance?

Mark, that sure is a sharp looking engine! It is going to look wonderful on your layout! Has me wondering what your plans are for  what type of cars are you going to be pulling behind it? Either way very nice and I to hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it and your layout!

That's a beauty Mark! Looks good on the 054 curve too.

Bob

@Mark Boyce posted:

I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon.  Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical.  But everything needs a good foundation.  Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!

I couldn't agree more. There's a phrase that applies perfectly to our collective hobby, which I first heard in reference to the video gaming industry: it's called "the suspension of disbelief." All one has to do is view a Norm Charbonneau video on YouTube to get a prime example.

We apply our creative assets to build a miniature realm, with trains as the actors moving about on the stage. I make no quibbles (or excuses) about the joys of living a second childhood.  

Thank you, Paul, Al, Lance, Mallard, Mike, Bob, Bruce!!!

Bruce, the term "the suspension of disbelief." certainly applies!!  I'll have to bounce that one off my two sons-in-law, especially the one who has made it into their livelihood.  Norm C certainly is a master of it!  The second childhood is great!!

Mike, well as coal is still king, I am one shy of two dozen 2-bay hoppers. I think those trains will be handled by either the H9s or RS3s as the prototype did.  I think this engine will pull mostly mixed freight.  I have 21 boxcars, 5 tank cars, 2 gondolas, 4 flatcars, 6 log dump cars, 6 reefers, and of course each freight train will have a caboose.  I have a set of heavyweight passenger cars and a set of streamlined.  The Pacific will handle those.

Mallard, yes the clearances were a concern.  I have no problem with the height of the short tunnel, and I discovered the 2x4 supports offer no obstruction to the overhang anywhere.  The front is the critical point.  It just barely clears one support (photograph 3 and 4), so I am going to carve some breathing room out of it not only for engine sway, but also for some sort of tunnel liner.

On to the backdrop.  No problem there.  Keep in mind, this track is not fastened down, so I will work for even more clearance.  The closest spot is shown.  The shadow makes it look a lot closer than it is.  I had to put my hand between the locomotive and backdrop as shown in the cockeyed photograph.

One last one in front of the backdrop.

That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang.  I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.

@Mark Boyce posted:

That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang.  I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.

Good thing that you overbuilt by starting with a 2x4.

If that area is visible via a tunnel portal or access hole, I suggest creating a scene with a lumberjack with an ax or chainsaw.  Or maybe a crew of workers taking measurements and scratching their heads?

Mallard, thank you for the great ideas!  Yes I overbuilt using what I had on hand.  The alternative would have been to take the plywood top off, and move the support.

My intent is to have a building or buildings in front of that spot that will block the view of the opening unless I lean way over.  A retaining wall may be needed behind to make it plausible.  I like the lumberjacks and scratching heads.  Those would be fun.

Now I have about the same clearance here as at the closest point to the backdrop; about the thickness of my fingers.  I tried about every feature I could think of off the TMCC controller, and they all worked except the rear coupler.  I hear the sound and can feel the coil energize if I put my finger on the coupler, but the coupler doesn't open.  I don't know if it is mechanically binding or what.  Otherwise, it all works great.

I started a little more roadbed, but there isn't much new to show.

Mark

I hope your coupler problem is simple and something you can resolve. (why does word spell think coupler is a spelling mistake?) Good grief, we're on a model train forum and COUPLER is a spelling mistake.

Thank you, Keith!  I’ll get it worked out.  Yes, that is silly about spelling check 

Love the engine, Mark....

Peter

Mark, catching up a bit here, and you have made some great progress on your layout. The planning and adjustments are critical to the end result, and you are doing a great job on both fronts! The engine is a beauty, enjoy.

Andy

Thank you, Peter and Andy!!

WOW things look GREAT! Nice work with everything Mark. Happy Memorial Day!

John, Thank you very much!!  I hope you are getting things ready to build your layout!

Hi Mark,

Putting up sheetrock on the train side of the basement. The other side is completed, except for my wife decorating the finishing touches on that side.  No rush for finishing the walls, because I still do not have a clue on layout or for that matter what size and shape of the baseboard. I will have final room measurements for sure. That is about the only thing that will be concrete. Not sure what railroad or cities or industries to include. So far I am looking at a coal mining operation and small town and from there I am not sure! What terrain, what era, what possible railroad line etc. Also looking at how to draw out track with tunnels and different levels. So I have to do a lot of thinking. I would rather do the building rather than the thinking design wise. Btw I was working on remote wifi operated switches and block detection. Those are in the prototype design stage, using small micros that will run off local track power. What are you doing for switches and do you want/have block detection?

Hope you had a great Memorial Day! Again great job on the layout!

John,

Thank you!!  I'm glad you have made much progress on the basement.  I'm sure your wife is happy with the completed side.  I know, it is hard for me to get thoughts together as to what to put on the layout and how to arrange the track and scenery.  I'm glad folks here on this forum helped with ideas and track planning.

Most of my switches will be close to the edge as I was just going to throw them manually with Caboose Industries throws.  I have a couple, and they work well.  I have some DZ1000 electrical throws I will use the switch that comes with them mounted out front near the switch itself.  Nothing very fancy or complicated.  I was not planning to have any block detection or signals.  Again, I want to keep it simple, and with my fairly simple track plan I think it will be fine.  I would rather spend my time on scenery and buildings.

We had a nice Memorial Day.  There was no parade of course, but they flew a C17 from the 911 Airborne over Butler VA Hospital and Butler Memorial Hospital, then they were off to a number of other hospitals.  We got to see that from our backyard as it was on it's way between the two.  We picked up KFC and met both daughters and sons-in-law at my mother-in-law's house for a short get together.  Later, I heard someone a way off playing a bugle.  It was very touching, I thought.

Mark, I have been away for a little and you sure are moving right along! The engine looks amazing and is going to be nice to see it run on your layout! I am glad you were able to do a little carving to get more clearance. 

I hope you and the family are all doing well and enjoying life!

Mike, We are doing fine!  I hope your family is well too.

Thank you, I made a little more progress this week, but haven't taken any photographs yet.  The 2-6-6-2 has helped with getting the transition to flat at the top of the grade smooth.  Going forward it is fine, bt in reverse the front driver raises off the track to the inside of the curve.  I'll have to take it apart and try again.  It is a good thing to find the most picky engine or car and work out the kinks in roadbed and track now.

Have a great weekend!

Mark, I am glad you found it before you got to far into it! Your right that now is the time to fix it. I hope its an easy fix. I also look forward to some new photos!

Take care!

Beautiful engine!  It's always challenging to run an articulated engine for the first time on your layout, you never know for sure until you try it.

Art

Thank you, Mike and Art!

The top of that grade where I have trouble is right at the spot where two sections meet, so it wasn't a smooth transition.  I decided to forgo the attempt to make that joint easy to separate if I ever want to move the layout.  I cut out about 6 inches of the plywood on the level section and put in extra risers that support the joint with a new piece of plywood that extends about 3 inches into the section with the grade.  I then put down newly cut Homasote and cork, staggering the joints.  The screws holding down the end of the plywood pull it down into a slight ark, the top of the grade.  It is a smoother transition.  A GP7 and 0-8-0 went back and forth over it fine.  The 2-6-6-2 lifts the front set of drivers, when I stop and back up, the drivers set back down on the track fine.  However, this won't do.

Since the end of the switch for the passing track is right at the top of the grade, I moved it forward on the level surface 4 inches.  The same engine goes over it fine.  

Two things.  First, this switch is a GarGraves switch.  I had intended to buy a Ross switch, but when I saw a Forum member selling two number 4 switches, I read it as Ross, when it was really GarGraves.  My fault.  I do not know if the 2-6-6-2 would go smoother over a Ross number 4 switch.  My guess is it won't matter.

Second, I could leave the switch where it is now but that cuts the passing siding down to 55 inches.  That is long enough for an H9 steam engine and 4 cars instead of 5 cars.  The only way to make up the difference is to move the switch at the other end out onto the lift up section for access.  That could be done.

I also put in the 054 curve at the bottom of the same grade.  So far so good there.

ScoutingDad suggested to put in a couple sidings with 054/072 switches for engine storage if nothing else.  I temporarily put in one of the switches at the left end of the tunnel where I had to increase clearance.  The switch would be blocked by a building, which could be easily removed for access.  It could work out fine.  The Z4000 will not be where it is now.  I will be putting in a shelf to hold it, the TIU, and TMCC base later.

Here is a view from near the doorway.  It is tough to get everything in the photograph in such a small room.

Great Progress Mark!

Hoping to get going on my layout. I am envious and also inspired by your progress. Keep up the great work.

As for the gargraves mistaken identity, I did a similar mistake with a switch I thought was a ross switch. I can say with having both brands the ross is a far superior switch. Maybe the gargraves switch I got is not typical, it is not as well transitioned and smooth as the ross switches. That is all said from someone who hasn't run a train on either ross or gargraves switches. lol

Mark, I've run Atlas, Gargraves and Ross switches with no significant issues with any. The Ross and Gargraves are not the same height so when screwed down on a flat surface, one track will pull down lower than the other, potentially causing problems. Try putting a 2 or 3 foot level at the junction, you should be able to see any gaps or bumps - shim under the ties appropriately to get that section flat - not level. I have a similar issue with one of my sidings at grade. Rather than building up the bench work to grade - I ended up shimming the track to grade. What a mistake, but too much work to change at this point - I'll keep shimming until I get it right. 

Looking at the photos, I had an MTH 30-1667-1 Great Northern 2-8-8-2 USRA Mallet steamer, I ended up returning to the dealer. The lead wheels would derail at every switch regardless of direction (I tried all three) and whether Atlas, Gargraves or Ross. Seems to me there was not enough mass on the lead wheels to keep them down on the track, so they only were OK running on a  straight or a curve. I thought about adding a spring or lead weight, but decided I did not want to mess with it. 

Mark, its great to see your progress! The other thing you could do is put everything back where it was and if you have a hand planer just shave a little off the top! LOL kind of like a hair cut! Either way your bench work and track work is looking great!

John, Scouting Dad, Mike, Thank you!

John, I can't wait to learn you have gotten started on the layout.  I know what it is like waiting year after year to build a new layout.  I hope to be able to come see it once you get it going!

Scouting Dad, I actually shimmed under the ties at one point once I moved the switch.  More needs done.  If not, I can easily pull the track and layers back up to do what Mike suggested.

Mike, I was using a Stanley Sure-form (I'm not sure if that is what they called them, but it's close) to shave off some before putting the new piece of plywood back down.

I know how I got into this mess.  It was when I realized I hadn't calculated right when I put the Woodland Scenics down for the grade.  I'll keep plugging away and get this layout going to the point I can run trains and build scenery, the two things I like best in the hobby!  

Scouting Dad, I don't know if I am seeing what you said about your RK 2-8-8-2.  The pilot wheels stay where they are supposed to, it is the front set of drivers that lift.  Your issue reminds me of my N scale steamer from the early '80s when I switched from HO to N because of lack of space.  I gave up on those and just ran them with the pilot wheels flopping wherever they wanted.  Without a center third rail, nothing ever shorted out.    I want to see what the H9 Consolidations or the Pacific do, since I only ran the GP7 and 0-8-0 so far.  They were okay.

No worries.  If I keep having issues with one engine, I'll see if someone else wants it.  But for now, I'll try to solve the issue.  I'm retired now, so it's not like this is messing with my mind after a rough day at work.    Thank you everyone!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

OmanMember

Ken

That sounds approximately equivalent to my 16" at each end for 1/4" rise (1.5% transition) for a 3% incline.

Keith

Pardon me for taking the liberty to copy from your layout build topic.  I wanted to bring up the point on my topic where I am having the issue with the vertical easement (transition) at the top of my incline.  So the suggestion is I should have 2 feet of 2% at the top of my 4% grade.  No, I do not have 2 feet of easement for sure.  I only have about 6 inches.  Let me do some looking/investigating on different ways I could fix the problem.  Thank you Keith and Ken.

Mark

For me that was a gut feel number. I don't know what the minimum (that will work) number is. I hope you can resolve it.