O Scale Motor Vehicle Chronicle Aug.22

Wow - I was unaware of Viking, and Marquette.  You have to wonder what Gm was thinking when they decided on Marquette going upscale from Buick and LaSalle going downscale from Cadillac - duuuuh!   Still, how often have we wondered what GM was thinking over the years.  

I didn't know the Chieftain was hard to get.  I have two on my layout - a light yellow not the blue, the yellow being very close to the Chieftan my Dad had may back when.

I have not done well trying to find a puzzle car no one can identify (I';m beginning to think it is probably impossible, given the knowledge here) but here is a third attempt:

I've seen a 1954 Pontiac like the one in the photo on eBay under the Hachette brand name. 

Lee,

Is it a Jensen Interceptor?

Jay

No - not a Jensen Interceptor.

Lee's puzzle car looks like a Monteverdi 375 High Speed. Introduced in 1967, powered by a Chrysler 440 V8 rated at 375 bhp. Monteverdi was a Swiss company. 

Should'a known, I have a Dinky version somewhere.

Southwest Hiawatha has it.  It is a Monteverde 375S.  It was produced from the late 60s into the 70s in Switzerland - one of very few brands ever made there.  It used a Chrysler 440 (like the Jensen Interceptor) and was aimed at roughly the same market. It is also the only really rare model of car I have ever driven. 

Articles today say that the car was highly regarded - i think that is piffle.  I recall road tests in the '60s said it was beautifully assembled but had a bad chassis design and was not sorted out well.  I drove one from Houston to Austin in summer of '74 or thereabouts and would agree.  It was not a bad car to cruiser on the interstate in: materials, and interior were awesome: as good as anything I had seen before or have since, and it had smooth, effortless power (thanks entirely the Chrysler)  But it wasn't even very quiet inside, or comfortable, and it handled about as well as my brother's '64  Galaxie - i.e., badly.   The styling may look good but what you can't tell from my photos is that is was a big car and and the styling did not really work when that big: a full two feet longer than the Ferrari Lusso (already a pretty long sports car for the time) after which the 375S's profile was modeled.  In fact it was nearly a foot longer than a '68 Mustang, if lower - and much heavier.

Edit: By the way Richard E - I can't resist that Pontiac station wagon you posted.  I've got to get one.  Great model - so '50s.  I went to diecast direct to try to order it.  They are having a big sale on Brooklin (about 20% off on some items, not the Pontiac, but three times with two different browsers the website hung up on me, so i wll try somewhere else. 

Uh....I drove a Marquette coupe, as one of a list of cars I kick myself for not buying....

and it was not up-market from Buick, for it was the only Buick product produced

until the present that had a side valve (flat head) engine, and was Buick's effort to

offer a lower cost car in their showrooms.  Was that a typo?  The Viking V-8, I think,

had horizontal valves like that in the Oakland V-8, which was soon offered in the 1932 Pontiac. I think there was a problem with those engines.  

My great aunt drove a 1937 Lasalle until she was 90, (about 1960) and I have never found one at the right time, the right price, the right condition, right body style, etc., although it is a dream car I have looked for, since I used to ride in hers as a kid.

I like the '33 LaSalles, but do not like the '34-'36 ones, as the '34 pictured above, for

they used a beefed up Oldsmobile straight eight, instead of the Cadillac V-8, for those

years, due to a fire in the Cadillac engine plant. But those years of LaSalles were the

test beds for the new all steel body Turret Top cars. 1937 was the return to the Cadillac V-8, and the last year for the floor shift transmission, once legendary with hot rodders until the Borg-Warner four speed T-10 showed up in Corvettes and Chevrolets.  For me, that makes 1937 THE year for LaSalle, as the '33 and priors had mechanical brakes.  Post 1937 LaSalles used column shift.  Sure would wish Brooklin

or somebody would model the 1937 LaSalle  (I thought I heard of a resin one once,

but have never seen one).

O Scale Motor Vehicle Chronicle

Detroit Police Car, with a Dead Battery

This officer had to leave his car with a dead battery, on the rails, what is going to happen?

  Click to enlarge photo. 

You are correct, I got my facts crossed. The Marquette was a Buick junior make and the Viking was up-market from the Oldsmobile. I also corrected my original post

Certainly easy to get facts crossed like that when you are down in the weeds of automotive industry history like that - but I had never had any idea about those companies - fascinating.  

Still raises the same question i asked about earlier, just closer to the middle of the price spectrum than the top: what was GM thinking when they did this? Marrquette is moving Buick down and Viking was moving Olds up: quite obviously they would compete against one another.  When you think about it, GM has never been successful at starting a new brand - most recently Saturn and Hummer come to mind.  Interesting (and a bit depressing), that Toyota can do it so easily with Lexus and Scion.  

Richard, I finally . . . finally, got my fourth mini - the small (500 lb load capacity) pickup version in the photo below.  I ordered it at the time your original thread on the mini was first posted, and it took forever . . .  it came from Japan and I think this thing drove across the Pacific itself to get here.  Here it is with my other three, a nice little (mini!) set of Minis.  

Here they are with the other line of "mini-cars made into ever type and shape" - these are Fiat 500s (the six passenger on the left is 600 cc).  Looking at them, there was probably not much to chose between the white Fiar panel van or the Mini version if you were a baker or flower shop trying to find a tiny delivery vehicle. 

I love these threads: they are yet another reason I always look forward to Fridays!

i am having trouble finding 1.50 or 1.48 scale cars for my layout

these seem to fit the bill

could someone post sources for o scale appropriate cars and tucks

thank you for your help

I use 1:43 cars, and 1:50 scale big trucks and buses.  It works out best.  First, the selection in 1:43 is much greater, but more than that, small things like cars  (compared the locos, buildings, big tractor trailers, seem to benefit from a small bump in scale when surrounded by bigger.  I would do it even if there were a lot of 1:48 or 1:50 cars available.  But I use 1:50 buses and trucks because they are close to scale and big enough on their own to "fit" at that scale. 

EDIT: Not sure if anyone is into 1:43 land speed record cars but I've gradually accumulated a small collection that I keep on the shelf except when I set them up, one or two to a flatcar, as a special train.  I've been stalled at fourteen of the for a about a year - they are hard to find - so today is a banner day indeed when not one, but two arrive!!!!!!  Not only that, one is, for me, the holy grail of LSR cars - the one i want most: the second - supercharged - version of Mickey Thompson's Challenger I, which  went 406.6 mph at Bonneville in 1960, with its monstrous air scoops (really there to clear the superchargers on its four bi Chrysler V8s).  I've had the less brutal looking 300+mph non-supercharged model for over a year, but always really wanted this fastest version.  I also picked up the Olds AeroTech behind Challenger, which while not aimed at the ultimate LSR, did set many class records and was cool, if for no other reason that because my Dad was an Oldsmobile man.  

Interesting comments about those "side-branded" or "off-brand" GM cars.  I was aware that the Pontiac name superseded the Oakland, but didn't realize that Viking was a  part of Olds and Marquette an effort of Buick's.  Of course the LaSalle was quite well known and popular for about ten years or so. 

If you guys would like to see a couple of really excellent LaSalle's; TP Tools of Canfield, OH (sometimes called TiP Plus Corp) has a private museum where they have a 1930 LaSalle convertible and also a 1939 Convert.  Both are class prize winners at various shows and are probably the finest examples of the breed I have ever seen.  This museum and collection, of close to 50 cars, is open to the public on Saturdays and there is no admission fee.  One other vehicle that has been mentioned here before and appears on a lot of train layouts, is a Divco milk truck, this one signed for Bordens.  TP Tools sells tools, equipment and supplies, specializing in car restorers, hot rodders, custom cars, etc.  And, if you's like to make a day of it, the recently enlarged, National Packard Museum is located about 20 miles away in Warren, OH.

As for me, I certainly can enjoy seeing wonderful antique and classic automobiles in museums, car shows, cruise-ins, etc. but my own involvement is pretty much limited to 1/43 scale on my train layout!

Paul Fischer

Dang!  Sorry TP does not have a '37 LaSalle?   (LaSalle was offered 1927-1940, one of the first efforts of GM's "Art and Color" shop, that is, an attempt at styling) But TP is a museum I had not heard of, and if there are not enough Packards in Warren, venture down to Dayton, where the Packard Museum there is in the old original Packard dealership.

Lee Willis just a fyi Mickey Thompson's challenger 1 was powered by 4 supercharged Pontiac engines. in that era Pontiac was the leader in performance winning in Nascar, drag racing and  land speed.

Yeah, and I knew it was Pontiac, too.  Not sure what I was thinking as I wrote that.  

No surprise, and I bet there are of the Morgan Plus Four sprots cars, too, which, like the MG TF I once lusted after, until British electrical systems became known.

I was thinking of another subject for Richard E: some of the very large cars once

made: such as the Duesenberg (with many 1/43rd models) and the Bugatti Royalle,

also modeled.  Others I doubt have been modeled are the Buick and Oldsmobile

Limiteds and another make from the brass era (1910's), and my favorite, the McFarlan

TV-6, from the 1920's (which like the smaller Lexington makes at least 4 vanished makes made within 30 miles of here...there were more).  McFarlans were movie star

cars before Duesenbergs.  There were other very large cars besides the Royalle out

of Europe, and probably some other U.S. ones.

Co Hi:  Gee, I didn't even know about "Americas's Packard Museum" in Dayton.  Thanx for the info.  I've been down to Dayton on numerous occasions, usually spending my spare time at the AF museum.  But, now I'm going to have a new objective to visit the Packard dealership museum.

I'm not a native of OH, having been here for about 28 years, so I can be excused for not knowing about interesting places.  But, how did Dayton become such a Packard town when General Motors really owned the town?  I mean, Dayton Electric Company became Delco and therein tied up the whole town. 

Paul Fischer

I actually went there while on a business trip years ago.  The local fellow I was doing business with had never noticed it, but went with me and loved it.  Packard was a great company for many years and had some really great products, and not just for cars either, they made so awesome engines for other purposes, etc.  

Worth seeing. 

The museum there was a dealership Citizens Motors. A group of Packard owners started the museum to display and store their cars. I haven't been but they have a nice selection looking on-line, do some parts and cars selling as well.

The National Packard Museum is in Warren, Ohio where Packard was started by James Ward Packard and William Dowd Packard. That's where the PAC National was held this year.

I think there has been a model of the Bond (English, post war) three wheeler made (I would love to have one - talk about basic: 7 cid and 5 hp, with a pull cord starter from the dashboard!), and maybe a later three wheeler they made in the '70s, but I don't have them.  

The only other three wheeler car I have is this 1:43 Vitesse model of an early Messerschmidt Kabineroller, often called the "Googlemobile," which had a small 175 - 200 cc scooter engine driving the single rear tire and tandem seating for two.  Briefly it had an upscale sibling, a sport model called the TG (for tiger) that had 500 cc and four wheels (right, also Vitesse).

I've never heard the term "Googlemobile" before, although I can see a resemblance to Barney Google ("with the Goog-goog-googley eyes"). In the same postwar period there was also a minicar called the Goggomobil, which wasn't much bigger than the Messerschmitt but it had four wheels in the conventional four-corners locations. 

The BMW Isetta and Heinkel bubble cars had four wheels, but the rear wheels were very close together so that at first glance, they looked like trikes. 

The 3-wheeled Elio mentioned in a previous post has the same tandem driver/passenger arrangement as the Messerschmitt.

The term did come from the googley eyes song, I was told when young.  I've sat in a Messerchmidt but not driven one.  

I have a model Isetta, too: I think that although it had four wheels, it may have not had a differential at the rear - they were so close together.   Never liked the idea of that front door.   How do you get out of the car if it has a front end collision? - well, being practical, since you are unlikely to survive it probably is not an issue worth discussing.

Fisch330: I understand the Packard V12 was popular with runrunners dueing prohibition because it made for a fast boat and the engine always delivered when asked.

The Elio, as reported, has that same one door problem, only on one side, but I had

the same thoughts as I was reading it.  Promoter said that was a cost saving measure,

but, if you get T-boned in one, maybe getting out would no longer be your concern, but I'd like to have that door on the opposite side.  (I can visualize the front seat

door on one side and the back seat door on the other)

I have just been to the Citizens Motors Packard Museum once, as a fellow worker

owned and restored a 1941 120.  He thought there was a 1938 110 touring coupe

(as my dad owned) on display there, but I did not get there until much later and I

was told they rotate the cars, that are on loan there.  It was not there.

Are you driving in England?

Good point, what was I thinking?

Lee.....I was going to say ISO.....but that was wrong too! Some cool cars this week.....I like that Challenger I too....

Yeah, it looks very much like an ISO Grifo, doesn't it?    I always wanted one of those - Corvette engine, Italian styling (and among the best, I thought) and interior - what's not to like?  I understand the bodies were very delicate and hard to fix though . . .  but still, I'd love to have one.

As a kid growing up in the 70's I heard on TV many a Saturday night how the old LaSalles ran great.   LOL

Geez, you think that's bad, I was born and raised about 60 miles from Dayton and had never heard of a Packard Museum there.

Dayton was ONCE a major manufacturing town, with headquarters and plants for

NCR (National Cash Register), Frigidaire (true, a GM division, once), and others,

as well as a couple of GM plants, and a major R&D Air Force Base, with engineers and scientists on the payroll.  There were people in Dayotn who could afford Packards. The USAF R&D base is still there, and is based on its Wright Brothers

history of the invention of the airplane, and I think I read it is one of the largest

employers in Ohio.

I can't remember the title of that TV show that everybody watched with the tune,

"and our old LaSalle ran great, those were the days".  Each time Cadillac has come

out with a small car, I have hoped they'd reincarnate the LaSalle name (glad they

didn't for one version that was unsuccessful, and rebadged as a Saturn model, but with the current CTS, I'd have been pleased)  I test drove an early CTS, but prices have since gone up,  you can buy two Accords for the price of a CTS coupe, so......

good think it's not a LaSalle...temptation would have threatened...

All in the Family - great show.  Great tune.