One engine in 3-unit lash up is sporadic in response

Jeff,  Try cleaning wheels and the pickup rollers especially internal portion of roller.

 

Are these all PS-2 engines?  G

 

 

 

G, thanks- these are all PS 2.0 engines. I cleaned everything b ut still the same- engine has low run time. In addition, it is sporadic even when trying to start just this engine. Sometimes it works and most times it won't. I do hear the watchdog signal though when track power is applied every time.

 

any other suggestions or ideas? thanks

So it never starts up in conventional, which means it hears the watch dog signal.  I have not seen that one yet.  I would try reloading the sound file.

 

What is the signal strength?  Does track location matter?  Does it do it if it is not in the lashup?  If it only does it in the lashup, maybe it is a lashup bug, or the other engines are interfering.  Are these production engines?  Any upgraded to PS-2?  G

George has already mentioned "what's the track signal"".  Lash-ups  need a really good signal and  must see the watch dog signal else they won't move. 

 

Funny thing is they'll do everything they're suppose to do on start up from a toggled off siding.. Couplers ..horn PSAs   dir lights etc all work. they just  won't  move.

Update- my track signal is 10 on all my loops. Now I just realized that the watchdog signal is not being recognized every time power is applied to the track for this engine as I took it out of the alsh up and have it by itself. This is my issue more than likely. when I hear the "click" of the signal it starts. when there is no "click", it remains lifeless.

 

thanks for your help!

Just to clarify.  When a PS-2 engine is powered up even with out DCS the relay clicks.  With DCS the engine will remain dark and silent if it receives the watchdog signal.  If it doesn't hear the DCS signal it will start up in conventional.  If there is no click, that usually means the board is not getting any power, or there is some hardware fault with the board. 

 

If you remove DCS and just power this engine conventionally does it always start up or sometime stay dead?

 

It could be a continuity of power issue.  Or the board isn't getting the DCS signal reliably in which case there are some things to check.  G

Thank you for your help. I tried it conventional and it starts up every 4th or 5th attempt, thEn Runs fine. However, no relay click every time either. Once i shut it down, it does not start until i cycle the transformer on/off 4 or 5 times. Very Strange here. Thanks again.  

Could a dead or weak battery cause this???

I just installed a brand new charged battery so that's not it. When I power off it stays on about ten seconds.

I missed the part about thew new battery in your first post. not a battery problem. How about continuity between both sets  roller picks ups. Test at work bench with continuity meter. guessing now.

Not sure how to test this for continuity-- are there any other ideas what this issue may be? I cannot figure this one out.

 What I,m  trying  to say is... perhaps only one set of center rail rollers is working.(picking up power) Operation  would be sporadic. You would use a continuity meter with the engine on the work bench nto test for continuity between each set of rollers..

 

 There is another very easy way with the engine on the track. Place a piece of tape about 3 inches long on the center rail... park the engine with one set of rollers on the tape. the other set of rollers should power up the engine. Try again with the other set .

Is this a 3V system (AA battery) or a 5V system (9V Style battery)?  Is this a 2 rail / 3 rail model with the switch?  Greggs test on continuity is good, making sure the 7 pin harness is full connected is also good.

 

After that you can do a sound file load, but testing board out of engine, and swapping power Supply and processor boards if this is a 3V system may be in order.

 

Basically it only starts up in conventional every 4th or 5th time power is applied?  G

thanks guys- I will try that test. This is a 2-rail model with rollers for 3-rail. 3v system. It only starts every 4th or 5th time power is applied in conventional. same with dcs.

Are you running 2 Rail?  The issue can be power from outside wheels.  You may also what to inspect the screws that hold the pickup wires to the rollers internal to the engine.  Some models used black screws that had poor conductivity.  Replace with stainless or clean off the oxide coating.  Make sure no broken wires at the 2R/2R switch.  Cycle the switch a few times.  G

I'm running 3-rail. I replaced all the rollers, and the wiring has stainless crews. I checked all connections, everything looks good. Still sporadic start ups. Any other potential causes? thanks again

What does that mean? Did you try the tape on the center rail test??

I tried the tape test and it does not change the weird non-responsive actions of the loco.

The point of the test is to determine whether both set of rollers are picking up power so we can rule that out as a cause...Now we can rule it out..

 

What's different with   2 rail engines???? other than the fact the wheels are insulated on one side?? Smaller flange??   Maybe the outside rail pick ups   might be   part of the problem especially if the track feeder wire is on the insulated  wheel side.   Long shot.. turn the engine around... same old problem???

 

 

These engines, whether 2-rail or 3-rail  are all the same. I have 3-rail wheel sets and all 4 pickup rollers.  Not sure why this engine needs to cycle about 5 times between it being able to startup. Its a fairly new engine with low run time. It had been running fine for several weeks then this happened.  

The best approach at this point is to have a tech test it.  The boards can be tested out of the engine to determine if this is a board issue or engine wiring issue.  It is possible the Power Supply board is a problem.  G

Ok thanks you guys. I believe this needs to be further evaluated. I appreciate your help and input. Thanks!

Brainstorming this, your comments reminded me of a discussion a year or so back about blackened screws causing signal problems with PS3 engines and that internal wires routed too close to a wire coil component on the PS3 board could cause signal problems as well. I did just such a re-routing job on a pair of PS3 engines that balked in lash ups and it helped a lot. I don't know all the ways PS3 hardware is different from PS2, but what do you think GGG? Could the same problem happen with at least some PS2 boards as well, or are the components too different?

 

At any rate, good luck, Jeff. I hope you get it solved.

 

RM

He said the screws are stainless and the wires all good.  I have not seen an interference issue with PS-2 3V.  Also this is not starting in conventional which is different then the DCS issue with PS-3.  This one is perplexing.  I am thinking some sort of hardware issue on the PS board.  G