RE: K Line Tank Engine

I have one of the NYC models, and I do remember soldering in that diode, in order to obtain 4-chuffs per revolution. It is a beautifully manufactured model and runs VERY well. My only complaint was/is, the chuff rate increases in proportional to the speed increase, but only to a certain point. By that I mean, if the model continues to increase speed, the chuff rate now longer increases.

Thanks 

Do you remember where the diode was placed?

Soo Line posted:

Thanks 

Do you remember where the diode was placed?

I have absolutely no idea. However, I seem to remember that "Superwarp1", here on the OGR Forum, was instrumental in participating in the "up-grade". Also, concerning the smoke issue, I really don't remember any problems with it smoking, but I rarely if ever use smoke, as it messes-up the weathering on all my models as well as the track & scenery.

I have the B&A version. This is the only K-Line engine delivered that I know of that came with a selectable chuff rate. Much like a MTH . I think I either set it at 3 or 5 chuffs in order to end up with close to 4. The engine uses the cruise control to determine the chuff rate. The owners manual covers how to do this. As far as the diode. I remember the fix but never did mine seeing I rarely ever run smoke. These weren't great smokers. At least mine wasn't. The problem arose when you turned on the smoke. The chuff rate would be so rapid it sounded like a machine gun. Turn off the smoke and it returned to a normal chuff.

 This is a nice small unique steamer. Hopefully the tooling still exists and it will be re run in the future by someone. Mine has a small hiccup at track speed. Not that noticeable. The cruise seems to be constantly trying to adjust to maintain a set speed. I have a Weaver Pacific that came with K-Line's cruise that exhibits the same thing. My to early run Berkshires with the same setup are probably as good as anything built today as far as smoothness. Something must have changed either in the cruise board or the slotted cover on the flywheel.

 I ended up fixing the rear pilot and adding a Kadee. They did offer this as a 2 rail engine I think with all this already done. Had to fab my own parts. Lot of work and measuring but it was worth it. It's a nice looking 3RS steamer.

Enjoy your new engine.

Thanks Hot Water and Dave.

I did as best a search as I know how to do and could not come up with "Superwarp 1".

Still searching for information on this issue, primarily the use of the diode and it's placement.

Thanks Again

Dave

You can really annoy people with it by rocking the speed back and forth over the point when it switches chuffs.

If you turn the smoke off, I think the problem goes away. In the meantime, I will search my archives for the solution.

None of my K-Line Cruise engines has this problem but 2 were previously owned and may have already had the diode installed. One link I found says the diode should go in series with the fan motor. I would put the cathode (end with the white stripe usually) towards the motor on the Green (not red) wire. Its to isolate the fan motor from the chuff input on the R2LC or audio board. It won't hurt anything trying it but if the fan stops working you may have to reverse the diode.

Pete

Skip and Pete.............Thank you for the assistance.

Look forward to seeing what you can find Skip.

With regard to the diode Pete..........which diode do you think they used?

Thanks

Dave

Well, a common one that would work is a 1N4004 (1 amp rating). The motor only draws about 30ma so just about any diode would work.

Pete

As an aside....do we think this engine will ever be made again? Who owns the molds?

Peter

Thanks Pete. 

Peter

Good question...........I've never seen this engine except in pictures.

I don't have mine yet.

From what I gather the detail is very good.

Dave

That is a nice loco, I would enjoy one.   Anyone know the minimum diameter?

The LC+ electronics might make a make for a nice loco, with the excellent speed control and features.   

Mine has no issue with O31, I suspect that's it's minimum diameter.  I have the ERR CC-M in mine to replace a failed K-Line cruise.  Yes, it had to have a chuff switch added.

I've always liked this loco but the cost to own one has been above my budget. There's a Boston & Albany currently on ebay  for $440. During my pre-school era, I  watched these locos every day on the CNJ pulling several coaches thru Phillipsburg, N.J.  I wonder how many were on their roster? Do any of you guys believe another engine could be kit bashed into this loco? Tinplate ideas would be fine. I run H.O. also and have given thought to trying my luck in that scale also. Thanks beforehand for any comments or suggestions. 

There was a guy on another forum kit-bashing something into a tank engine, it looked pretty good.  It also looked like a lot of work, the thread went on for some time.

Thanks Bob K.

That seems to sum this up nicely.

Will print this thread now for future reference.

Dave

I saw one in "HO". The guy took a 2-6-0 Mogul drive, thus achieving the stagger drive wheel look, and modified part of the tender to make the coal bunker, then installed a 3 axle truck of a passenger car, I believe the way the story was told. When he got finished with the detailing, it looked and ran great, also installed DCC with sound!.........................................Brandy! 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There was a guy on another forum kit-bashing something into a tank engine, it looked pretty good.  It also looked like a lot of work, the thread went on for some time.

Lee Willis of these forums was making one from a LC+ locomotive long ago.

https://ogrforum.com/t...on-4-6-6-tank-engine

https://ogrforum.com/t...tank-engine-finished

https://ogrforum.com/t...4-6-6-lc-tank-engine

Mine seems to like 036 as the smallest curve and there is some binding.  I would wait out that ebay listing.  $440 is a bit pricey.  I picked up mine a while back off of ebay for 60% of that price.  Patience is key.  As far as the chuffing is concerned, since I never heard one in real life any sound to me is pleasing.  This is one of my favorite locos.  When working on the layout I like to set this up with a short consist and let it run.  It is a solid performer.

I bought mine for a lot less as well, have patience, they do come along.

Has anyone heard of anyone doing a conversion to P-3 or if its even possible?  

I love the look of the engine but don't run it much because it runs erratic & sounds are about the same as early TMCC engines with static sound...

Joe

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I bought mine for a lot less as well, have patience, they do come along.

For those who are not very patient, the Western Depot still has a number of these for sale.

I really liked the engine.  I went ahead and upgraded to Proto2 and it is one of my favorite engines.  It is a tight fit for the conversion.

The K-Line tank engine is a nice loco.  I passed on it as K-Line never got around to making the coaches to go with it.  I would spring for a Boston and Albany version with a set of B&A or NYC round roof coaches.

JC642 posted:

Has anyone heard of anyone doing a conversion to P-3 or if its even possible?  

I love the look of the engine but don't run it much because it runs erratic & sounds are about the same as early TMCC engines with static sound...

Joe

Yes,  I have upgrade this engine for a customer.  I used a PS-2 Diesel kit at the time.  G

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mine has no issue with O31, I suspect that's it's minimum diameter.  I have the ERR CC-M in mine to replace a failed K-Line cruise.  Yes, it had to have a chuff switch added.

John,

I have a K-Line 4-6-6T and plan to do both the diode fix and the CC-M install.  I read through the ERR CC-M install instructions and it looks pretty simple.  Your comment, though, raises a question... why did you have to install a chuff switch?  Was it somehow necessary for the CC-M to work, or did the reed just give you a better chuff rate than the existing mechanism?

Thanks!

Dustin

K-Line cruise does not need a chuff switch because it counts tach pulses like TAS EOB and MTH. When you replace the K-Line cruise board with an ERR Cruise M you will have to add a switch because there is nothing to generate the chuff pulses. If your K-Line cruise works why change it to ERR?

Pete

See Pete's answer, it previously had no chuff switch.

Norton posted:

K-Line cruise does not need a chuff switch because it counts tach pulses like TAS EOB and MTH. When you replace the K-Line cruise board with an ERR Cruise M you will have to add a switch because there is nothing to generate the chuff pulses. If your K-Line cruise works why change it to ERR?

Pete

gunrunnerjohn posted:

See Pete's answer, it previously had no chuff switch.

Pete, John,

Thank you for the replies.  The K-Line cruise works, but I'm not very pleased with the performance.  I've run the 4-6-6T at the club and don't find the 32 speed steps sufficient to match speeds with other locos on a busy mainline.  In addition, while it has cruise, it isn't as smooth as I would like, especially at low speeds.  I expect that the CC-M will correct these issues and make it more fun to run.

If you don't mind me asking, between what two points did you wire in the chuff switch?  J4 Pin 2 on the CC-M to a port on the sound system?

Thanks again,

Dustin

Lionel probably has access to the K Line 4-6-6T tooling.  So far Lionel has used the K Line tooling for the scale Lima Berkshire, USRA Mikado, K4 Pacific and B6 switcher as well as the non-scale shay.  It may all depend on Lionel's thoughts on the market for a B&A commuter locomotive and if they willing to do the engineering required to put Legacy in a small space.  Some of the packaging of Legacy for the K-Line over-scale two truck shay may be applicable here.

frizzinbee posted:

Norton posted:

K-Line cruise does not need a chuff switch because it counts tach pulses like TAS EOB and MTH. When you replace the K-Line cruise board with an ERR Cruise M you will have to add a switch because there is nothing to generate the chuff pulses. If your K-Line cruise works why change it to ERR?

Pete

gunrunnerjohn posted:

See Pete's answer, it previously had no chuff switch.

Pete, John,

Thank you for the replies.  The K-Line cruise works, but I'm not very pleased with the performance.  I've run the 4-6-6T at the club and don't find the 32 speed steps sufficient to match speeds with other locos on a busy mainline.  In addition, while it has cruise, it isn't as smooth as I would like, especially at low speeds.  I expect that the CC-M will correct these issues and make it more fun to run.

If you don't mind me asking, between what two points did you wire in the chuff switch?  J4 Pin 2 on the CC-M to a port on the sound system?

Thanks again,

Dustin

 

Change the setting.  K line cruise can be adjusted up to 256 speed steps.

To set speed steps with Kline cruise; 

Press DIR, BELL, AUX1 then (#1) for 32 steps, (#2) for 128 steps, (#3) for 256 steps. The 128 setting seems to be the smoothest.

  G

GGG posted:

frizzinbee posted:

Norton posted:

K-Line cruise does not need a chuff switch because it counts tach pulses like TAS EOB and MTH. When you replace the K-Line cruise board with an ERR Cruise M you will have to add a switch because there is nothing to generate the chuff pulses. If your K-Line cruise works why change it to ERR?

Pete

gunrunnerjohn posted:

See Pete's answer, it previously had no chuff switch.

Pete, John,

Thank you for the replies.  The K-Line cruise works, but I'm not very pleased with the performance.  I've run the 4-6-6T at the club and don't find the 32 speed steps sufficient to match speeds with other locos on a busy mainline.  In addition, while it has cruise, it isn't as smooth as I would like, especially at low speeds.  I expect that the CC-M will correct these issues and make it more fun to run.

If you don't mind me asking, between what two points did you wire in the chuff switch?  J4 Pin 2 on the CC-M to a port on the sound system?

Thanks again,

Dustin

 

Change the setting.  K line cruise can be adjusted up to 256 speed steps.

To set speed steps with Kline cruise; 

Press DIR, BELL, AUX1 then (#1) for 32 steps, (#2) for 128 steps, (#3) for 256 steps. The 128 setting seems to be the smoothest.

  G

G,

Thank you.  I'll try it with the speed step adjustment & reassess whether I want to replace the K-Line cruise board.

-Dustin

frizzinbee posted:

GGG posted:

frizzinbee posted:

Norton posted:

K-Line cruise does not need a chuff switch because it counts tach pulses like TAS EOB and MTH. When you replace the K-Line cruise board with an ERR Cruise M you will have to add a switch because there is nothing to generate the chuff pulses. If your K-Line cruise works why change it to ERR?

Pete

gunrunnerjohn posted:

See Pete's answer, it previously had no chuff switch.

Pete, John,

Thank you for the replies.  The K-Line cruise works, but I'm not very pleased with the performance.  I've run the 4-6-6T at the club and don't find the 32 speed steps sufficient to match speeds with other locos on a busy mainline.  In addition, while it has cruise, it isn't as smooth as I would like, especially at low speeds.  I expect that the CC-M will correct these issues and make it more fun to run.

If you don't mind me asking, between what two points did you wire in the chuff switch?  J4 Pin 2 on the CC-M to a port on the sound system?

Thanks again,

Dustin

 

Change the setting.  K line cruise can be adjusted up to 256 speed steps.

To set speed steps with Kline cruise; 

Press DIR, BELL, AUX1 then (#1) for 32 steps, (#2) for 128 steps, (#3) for 256 steps. The 128 setting seems to be the smoothest.

  G

G,

Thank you.  I'll try it with the speed step adjustment & reassess whether I want to replace the K-Line cruise board.

-Dustin

wow, I reset the speed steps to 128 .. Talk about a performance improvement.   Runs and sounds now almost as good as a legacy engine..  that's almost..    Plus, even better, I noticed that by turning the volume pot under the coal pile quickly back and forth a few times, it cleared the static in the sounds    Thanks for the tip..

I wish I could say the same for my TMCC  0-8-0 switcher.  It has developed erratic movement.  Can't figure it out.   In both command and conventional, it starts out smoothly either direction and then at medium speed the drivers seem to get sticky and the cab light and headlight flickers.  But, it seems to run fine at full speed... I'm hoping its not the expensive motor board..

Joe.