Ross Standard Gauge Switch anti-derail

They are spring loaded so the trains will not derail.

Steve Ross told me it is difficult to make electrically non-derailing. 

It can be done. Maybe you can get better answers on the electrical forum.

From the Ross website:

http://www.rossswitches.com/te...cal/zmacinstruct.jpg

Joe Allen posted:

From the Ross website:

http://www.rossswitches.com/te...cal/zmacinstruct.jpg

Those instructions are for the O gauge switches with the DZ1000 / 2500 switch machines that use AC power.  The LGB switch machines use DC power, so they cannot easily use an insulated rail configuration without diodes and bridge rectifiers.  Even then, I think the LGB machine uses a two pole switch that instead of three.  There is an auxiliary unit that LGB makes.  I will need to look at my "Complete Guide to LGB Trains" to see if there is a way to incorporate the auxiliary unit.

George 

F&G RY posted:

They are spring loaded so the trains will not derail.

Steve Ross told me it is difficult to make electrically non-derailing. 

It can be done. Maybe you can get better answers on the electrical forum.

Have you driven trains through the wrong way with the spring loaded feature?  Does it manually throw the LGB machine?  I worry that the front trucks may not be strong enough to throw the switch.

No I had not. I just went down stairs and tested. I ran a State set through the switch backwards. Observation car first. No problem. I guess they are not really spring loaded as it remained in the position they were pushed into. My turnouts are not wired in because I am lazy or work to much. I would imagine even though I pushed the turnout to the open position I think the controls will show the turnout closed. Not sure, can someone actually test that part of it.

I just used some relays with my Ross SG switches. My situation was a bit different as I had a switch that I wanted to control the train path with. I believe the logic is the same, a train approached the switch and threw the switch to go one direction or the other. I'll try to explain.

My layouts main loop had a pair of ovals. My goal was to have the train travel one of the ovals and on the next lap take the other oval. Alternating between the two ovals until the end of time. As illustrated below.

In the diagram above, switch "A" is the only one doing the work. The insulated rail sections that triggered the relays were located near the end of each oval. This system worked flawlessly. Switch "B" had the switch machine removed and was just floating. Since the trains would always travel the same direction, the train would push the points to where they needed to be. Never had an issue with either switch.

The electronics part of this project lived in a small box. It comprised of a couple relays. Now, before we go any further, I am not the electronics wizard.... far from it. I had a friend draw up the relay layout and another hook up the relays to the track and power. Here is the relay pin-out:

The words that are cut off near the top are "Ins. Rail 1" and "Ins. Rail 2". I can't remember if this was the final version or if something small needed to be changed to make it all work. Either way, this is the basis for the set-up.

It worked very well. Never had a problem with the Ross switches or the electronics controlling them.

Not sure if this helps, but it is what I had set-up and running. It wasn't that hard and even me with my limited electronics skills, I could probably do this again on my own.

ARNO

Video of the double-oval layout. (hopefully it works)

The 90 degree cross-over is where the 2 ovals intersect. The green Southern diesels are on the double-loop track. The switch is located on the other side of the "mountain" and can not be seen.

ARNO

What happens when a train is stopped over the insulated rails? Is the switch motor stuck on?

Power needs to be cut off to switch coils after turnout is set to route.

Lionel & MTH uses wiping fingers contracts on Standard Gauge switches to do this.

Switch attached to points throwbar could be add to the Ross switch throwbar.

A stalling motor type switch motor like tortoise can not burn out and maybe the best choice.

Atlas O sells a electronic board to also prevent burnouts, that may work with standard gauge switches with twin coil mechs.

F&G RY posted:

What happens when a train is stopped over the insulated rails? Is the switch motor stuck on?

Sure, I guess it would be. We thought about making provisions to address this but ultimately the moving train never stops, if it was stopped it would be away from the insulated sections. Also, I had a separate power supply feeding the switch machines and was using the least amount of voltage to throw the switch. The LGB switch motor is very robust and never even got warm after hours of continuous running.

George S posted:

Hello,

i am am thinking about getting a couple of Ross Standard Gauge switches.  Can they be wired for anti-derail, and if so, how?  I am not sure how to do it, since the switch machines are LGB and use DC power.  I could not find instructions on the Ross website.

Thanks,

George

Hi George,

Did you ever have any success with making the SG switches non-derailing? I'd love to add that feature to mine as well. 

John

I haven't attempted it yet, but I would probably use a short insulated rail on each of the switch legs and a relay to throw the switch machine. If I remember correctly, the LGB switch machine is activated by a momentary switch. My only concern is what happens when the relay sends repeated triggers to the switch machine with a long train. 

Gunrunnerjohn is going to be making some great insulated rail relays, which are being discussed in another thread. I will use those, since many of my SG engines are MTH DCS.

George

BlueComet400 posted:

George S posted:

Hello,

i am am thinking about getting a couple of Ross Standard Gauge switches.  Can they be wired for anti-derail, and if so, how?  I am not sure how to do it, since the switch machines are LGB and use DC power.  I could not find instructions on the Ross website.

Thanks,

George

Hi George,

Did you ever have any success with making the SG switches non-derailing? I'd love to add that feature to mine as well. 

 

John

 

John,

I just re-read the topic. It's been a while and I forgot. Jim C says the switches are mechanically anti-derailing because they are spring loaded. Again, I didn't try the electrical method yet.

George

Well, for $38, Azatrax has the solution ready made - D2T-2W for LGB 2 wire switch motors

Thanks, Carl!! This looks great. 

Let us know if it works out.  Also,if you can control other switches with this method.

F&G RY posted:

Let us know if it works out.  Also,if you can control other switches with this method.

If you look at the product detail, it lists the compatible switches. there is another version for a different group of switches. Looks like most mfg's ae covered.

Moonman posted:

Well, for $38, Azatrax has the solution ready made - D2T-2W for LGB 2 wire switch motors

Resurrecting this old thread with an update!

I purchased two of these units last fall to make my Ross Std gauge switches non-derailing. Finally had a chance to install one unit last night and I'm very pleased.  The installation instructions are thorough and clear.   The unit functions very well - can't wait to install the other one to make my reversing loops completely automated.

It's nice to use a product that functions as advertised and that makes running trains easier/more fun. 

Thanks for the update Rob--this product is still on my radar. 

John,

   Let me know how well these switches work with your 400E, will be very interested in knowing!

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

John,

   Let me know how well these switches work with your 400E, will be very interested in knowing!

PCRR/Dave

This product was well tested and runs anything STD gauge. Ross makes a 72 switch that fits the footprint of a MTH 72 switch. That footprint is that of a single straight and 72 curve. Ross also makes a #4 switch for cross overs in STD Gauge. They need to make cross overs in both angles.

These switches are in my opinion the best SG switches on the market. I have them on my layout and are worth every penny I paid for them. 

John 

We just solved this in the electrical forum. There were a number of solutions proposed, but the easiest involves using the LGB 12070 Supplementary Switch that attaches to the LGB switch machine. Here is the link to the thread. https://ogrforum.com/...7#118696450449922347

See Keith’s (Oman) post near the end for the wiring diagram. 

One note, above I say that the LGB switch uses DC. That is not correct. The LGB switch uses 18V half rectified AC. This is similar to, but not the same as DC. The PIKO and LGB switch control boxes mentioned above work with either AC or DC and the switch will work with DC, but you will see that the switch power in the anti-derail circuit uses AC as the power source for the LGB Switch machine.

George