Just announced by ScaleTrains.com that they have acquired the tooling for MTH HO and S scale lines. Video announcement is on YouTube.
Neal Jeter
Original Post
"HONGZ" stands for HO scale, N scale, G scale, and Z scale.
Post your non-O scale stuff here!
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Holy Cow! Big news.
Just saw that. Scale trains is a first class operation with great existing products. I hope they are able to release new S gauge items in the future, that is a new scale for them.
Maybe that will be good news for the ogauge line as well.that line Just needs a buyer say lionel or bachmann or former employee's to get together and buy that part of the buisness. Did not someone buy the gscale tooling?
It looks like Scale Trains has their act together and are a good company. I’d actually like to see them take over the MTH O gauge line too, but it sounds like their business model is more into the super detailed stuff.
What a go scale trains
Hope springs eternal for S scale. I'm at a point in my modeling life where I would reconsider S scale if Scale Trains brought product back into the market.
Jeff C
I note the lack of mention of continuing DCS in these lines. DCC and ESU sound appear to be the new standard for this line.
I'm honestly surprised that they picked up rights to the S tooling considering how small a market S is. Great scale, no question, but HO makes a lot more sense. MTH trains are highly regarded now in the HO community outside of the limited commands in DCC over DCS on their boards. MTH HO in many ways is much nicer than their O offerings. I wonder if it was a package deal? Pure speculation on my part but if ScaleTrains develops and actually produces S scale that is good news indeed! The one piece of MTH S scale I have is a very nice car.
This is wonderful news for not only Scale Trains, but HO and especially S scale. The former MTH HO line will no longer be held back in the market place by Mike's insistence on using DCS. IMHO, that change alone will increase the sales of the former MTH models.
Scale Trains may be the player that just might do something with S scale. If you'll pardon the pun, it sounds as if they "see" the difference that the size of S makes for one's eyes and dexterity when handling the trains, and "seeing" that our demographics are aging, there might indeed be a market there. I hope they do well with it.
Andre
@Landsteiner posted:I note the lack of mention of continuing DCS in these lines. DCC and ESU sound appear to be the new standard for this line.
Scale Trains has been using ESU decoders since their first locomotives. HO isn't held captive to proprietary electronics. An MTH wasn't in S long enough to build a DCS loyalty base.
Rusty
"Scale Trains has been using ESU decoders since their first locomotives. HO isn't held captive to proprietary electronics. An MTH wasn't in S long enough to build a DCS loyalty base."
Makes sense in multiple ways. Could this be the hang up for O Scale? No installed base of DCC. TMCC no longer available for licensing? No real path to a commonly available command and sound system? I suppose one could partner with 3rd Rail and install ERR/Railsounds if that's a feasible model financially. And assuming that is allowed by Lionel's licensing with 3rd Rail. One wonders whether Mike would be willing to sell tooling to Lionel if they were going to put Legacy/TMCC/LionChief in "his" locos?
Scanning their online catalog it appears most all they offer is modern era. Not a steam engine in sight. I haven’t done much in HO for the past 20 years so am somewhat out of touch. Does anyone model steam era anymore in HO?
Pete
Pete, I think the fact that MTH had the steam and earlier diesels in the HO line was part of what made the deal attractive to Scale Trains--it gave them entry into an entirely different side of the HO market.
My guess on the S line is that it was probably thrown in at such a good price as to make it hard to pass up. Whatever the circumstances of the deal, this is probably the best possible outcome for the S tooling.
Jeff C
I think the purchase of the S scale tooling rights was a strategic decision by ScaleTrains, not just an add on. Scaletrains has previously considered making S scale items, this purchase gives them a major jump start. I am optimistic we will see new S scale product from ScaleTrains in 2 to 3 years, and that is delivered, not just in a catalog.
Norton - According to their video (above) they intend to do HO Steam, but I'd have to watch it again to see if they said eventually S gauge steam engines.
I emailed Shane at Scaletrains in August suggesting getting the MTH HO scale tooling.
Hopefully they'll keep the metal hand railings on the SD70ACe.
@PH1975 posted:Norton - According to their video (above) they intend to do HO Steam, but I'd have to watch it again to see if they said eventually S gauge steam engines.
Not for S. They haven't committed to any specific S product for first release yet.
It's going to take time for Scale Trains to sort through the tooling AND figure out how to deal with the S market.
@AmFlyer posted:I think the purchase of the S scale tooling rights was a strategic decision by ScaleTrains, not just an add on. Scaletrains has previously considered making S scale items, this purchase gives them a major jump start. I am optimistic we will see new S scale product from ScaleTrains in 2 to 3 years, and that is delivered, not just in a catalog.
While I'm glad the SHS/MTH tooling isn't going to be turned into planters, I don't expect anything truly new out of ST until they gauge the response from available tooling. There were still several former SHS cars that MTH didn't re-release.
@Norton posted:Scanning their online catalog it appears most all they offer is modern era. Not a steam engine in sight. I haven’t done much in HO for the past 20 years so am somewhat out of touch. Does anyone model steam era anymore in HO?
Pete
MTH's steam locomotives was one of the reasons given for buying the MTH HO tooling.
Rusty
Congratulations and best of luck to ScaleTrains. Glad to see it.
MELGAR
I would like to second that statement
@Landsteiner posted:I note the lack of mention of continuing DCS in these lines. DCC and ESU sound appear to be the new standard for this line.
That’s a massive upgrade that no one will be complaining about.
There goes any hope of having any more HO DCS engines
@Landsteiner posted:I note the lack of mention of continuing DCS in these lines. DCC and ESU sound appear to be the new standard for this line.
Yeah, they were quick to mention their product will not use DCS. How many rivet counter HO manufacturers are there?
Is MTH a big market percentage HO seller? How much could the "S" tooling be worth? HO, N, G and its scales, then O? Z next?, last a distant S?
I think this is a huge win for the HO market. Scaletrains like Rapido are passionate about trains and the hobby. They also really seem to understand the market and business side as well. The fact they use ESU is like icing on the cake.
@Norton posted:Scanning their online catalog it appears most all they offer is modern era. Not a steam engine in sight. I haven’t done much in HO for the past 20 years so am somewhat out of touch. Does anyone model steam era anymore in HO?
Pete
There's lots of steam layouts although most model the 50's so they can have diesels, also.
I model 1938 so all my engines are steam (save 3 are diesel).
I think this is as close to a match made in heaven as many HO Big Steam lovers could of ever imagined. It is certainly a win-win for both companies and hobbyists. I'm active in a local HO modular club and many of our members (All hopeless Rivet Counters) have purchased locos from Scale Trains and have raved about the quality and attention to detail. I personally have one MTH HO steam loco from recent production,a Allegheny,and it has been an excellent running locomotive. I also had replaced the MTH DCC/DCS decoder with a proper ESU Loksound decoder. That combination is stunning. I'm optimistic about Scale Trains reissuing former MTH HO big steam.
Having read the comments here and in other S scale lists, my view of what lies ahead for S has evolved.
Rusty observed...
"It's going to take time for Scale Trains to sort through the tooling AND figure out how to deal with the S market."
And figuring that out is the biggest detriment that S scale faces. Current economic majority is found in the AF Flyer "Nostalgia Train".
Simply put: There's more AF and/or Hi Rail enthusiasts than scale adherents by a far stretch. Thus, the market caters to that segment by making product that is compatible with the non-standards within the AF/Hi-Rail segment.
However, that segment is slowly aging-out and eventually the market for the AF Flyer "Nostalgia Train" will leave the station for good. (Sadly, that same thing is happening over on the O 3-rail segment, too.)
Once the AF/Hi-rail market has shrunk to the point it's not viable for investment (thus waiting for new AF/Hi-Rail product becomes like a unicorn search), I really think the scale side is going to be essentially ignored by the main stream mfg'ers. The market just isn't there, period.
Scale Trains will have a very hard row to hoe with their S line in view of the above.
Good thing they've got the MTH HO line.
I so wish it weren't so, but I'm concern the market dynamics of S scale really are going further suppress S in regards to long-term continued production.
Scale model railroading is going to exist in some form or another, primarily in HO and N. However, the fringe scales/niches, and especially the nostalgia-driven markets, are going to retract.
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm not.
Andre
