Southern RR Fans- PHOTOS

It was around 2006. I took a trip to NC, rode on the Great Smokey Mountain RR and stopped at Spencer on the way back.

Pat Kn posted:

It was around 2006. I took a trip to NC, rode on the Great Smokey Mountain RR and stopped at Spencer on the way back.

Hi Pat, glad to know it was not recently and we missed a chance to meet.  Especially since we seem to be kindred spirits in our motive power likes.

Ron

PRRronbh posted:

kjstrains posted:

The Lionel version of 2716 is same tooling they used for NP 765 other than they removed the number boards and maybe a few other changes.  As Ron says above its not a Kanawha but it's Lionel attempt to make a 2716 without creating new tooling.

 I have no inside scoop on this but I suspect MTH will be redoing the 2716 in ProtoSound 3 in one of their next catalogs.  It  is one of few steamers left that they have not done in Protosound 3.  The Kanawha that MTH created in 2010 with ProtoSounds 2 as shown in the photo above is one of my favorite engines and most detailed engines in my collection along with one of the better sound sets.  I would recommend holding out for it if you are wanting to add Kanawha to your collection.  

Agree, one of my favorites especially since I road the last excursion out of Charlotte with 2716 at lead (no helpers).  It was about a month or so later taken out of service because of the leaks.  I think it was in Spartanburg SC where one of the yard crew  stated that water was running out as fast as they could fill it.

Ron

2716 is being worked on.Turns out shes not beyond repair.I had some post cards with that locomotive.Its whistle  is what I call a moaner.

Lionel 2018 Volume 2 Catalog has some nice offering for us Southern Fans.  It nice that Lionel offered 2 choices of the Mountain in Black and Green.  

The Pullman Passenger Cars look nice too.  I like the RPO car.  Looks like they are similar to the cars that Lionel offered back in 2006 for the Carolina Special.  

kjstrains posted:

Lionel 2018 Volume 2 Catalog has some nice offering for us Southern Fans.  It nice that Lionel offered 2 choices of the Mountain in Black and Green.  

Look familiar?

Ron

kjstrains posted:

Lionel 2018 Volume 2 Catalog has some nice offering for us Southern Fans.  The Pullman Passenger Cars look nice too.  I like the RPO car.  Looks like they are similar to the cars that Lionel offered back in 2006 for the Carolina Special.  

 

If we could be sure they would match the earlier set Lionel would pick up a few more passenger car sales.

I'm glad to see the 4-8-2 Mountains back in general after 16+ years of them being seen last. Plus, with the kinematic drawbar and whistle steam should make these versions excellent. I like how the green Southern version now has whitewalls. It really adds to the dressy look.

Also nice to see Lionel will make another Southern Stationsounds dining car for the new set since there's been considerable demand for the two old ones from the early 00's.

The new Heavyweight cars look great. MSRP for the 10 cars is just over $2000! While some dealers pre-order price is just over $1800 for the 10 cars. I might just focus on the baggage cars and the RPO. Looking at the catalog, the cars are lettered post 1947. Block lettering instead of Roman script. Only the observation car show Roman script lettering. The cars also show black roofs. While these cars wouldn't be an exact match for the 2006 cars, it would be prototypical to use some cars from both sets; say a PS4 (Not Crescent Limited), a RPO, the three baggage cars, and a couple of coaches would make a great stand in for a post war Train 135, an all points local from Washington to Atlanta.

Mikado 4501 posted:

I'm glad to see the 4-8-2 Mountains back in general after 16+ years of them being seen last. Plus, with the kinematic drawbar and whistle steam should make these versions excellent. I like how the green Southern version now has whitewalls. It really adds to the dressy look.

Also nice to see Lionel will make another Southern Stationsounds dining car for the new set since there's been considerable demand for the two old ones from the early 00's.

I am interested in the Mountain and have wondered for some time if Lionel would reproduce it in Legacy.  I hope Lionel does do the engine with white walls.  Sometimes they don't reproduce their engines according to the artistic drawings which can be disappointing hence makes me hesitant to do a preorder.  I also hope they upgrade the engine with a real coal load instead of the plastic coal load done on the first production run.  Here is photo of the 1483 in Alanta.  I dont  know if it is painted in green but I bet the cab roof is in black unlike Lionel's model!  

I'm not sure either Ken. I assume it's either black or a very dark gray.

I'm not sure if this image of a Southern Mountain, no. 6493, is artificially colored or not, but it looks like it has the same color green on the roof as it does on the body - very similar to how Lionel painted the TMCC runs of the Southern PS-4 in 2004 and 2006. 

I am glad Lionel is coming out again with a Southern Mountain. Here is another post card I got awhile ago on a business trip in Memphis. Here we have Ts Class 4-8-2 #1452 in Asheville, NC Feb, 8, 1950. The cab roof looks like dirty green to me. Either way it is not red. Enjoy.

Tom Morris posted:

The new Heavyweight cars look great. MSRP for the 10 cars is just over $2000! While some dealers pre-order price is just over $1800 for the 10 cars. I might just focus on the baggage cars and the RPO. Looking at the catalog, the cars are lettered post 1947. Block lettering instead of Roman script. Only the observation car show Roman script lettering. The cars also show black roofs. While these cars wouldn't be an exact match for the 2006 cars, it would be prototypical to use some cars from both sets; say a PS4 (Not Crescent Limited), a RPO, the three baggage cars, and a couple of coaches would make a great stand in for a post war Train 135, an all points local from Washington to Atlanta.

 

The new coaches with the gold stripe at the bottom would also be good to run with the 4501 to represent the excursion era. The RPO is the old Weaver mold, and I am glad they came out with this one. I have a Weaver unlettered green version that I have been trying to find decals. The original Southern cars from years ago have the Railroad Roman lettering, but the MTH Southern cars (including an incorrect RPO) have this block style lettering. I have both sets, and may see about creating a late 40s - early 50s passenger train as well. Have to see if the baggage cars (also Weaver) are close to Southern or just PRR prototypes. These would also be good behind green E units for a more streamline look. 

Here are the Lionel set 15588 Southern cars, made to go with the 11103 PS-4. These are correct for the 1930s - early 40s era, but not after WWII when they changed to block style lettering. 

Also showing one of the MTH cars, which can be used to match in a consist. These were in set 20-65149. 

Back in 2000, MTH had a heavyweight set 20-4036 and two car add on 20-4136 in Pullman green/ black roofs and block style lettering. Two things not Southern about the cars are the port hole windows on the baggage and combine cars, and the gold stripes bordering the windows. I was just happy that their was a set of Southern heavyweight cars that was not in the Crescent Limited paint. Today, these cars are available on the secondary market for less than what the new two car set will cost. The above picture is an older picture of my layout just after I completed the bench work. I laid a temporary loop of track to run some trains!

Does anyone have any pictures of the Mountains (or a pacific) with a known date of pre 1926?

The later Ts1  Mountains were delivered in 1919 with US on the tender and SOUTHERN on the top coal side for USRA control, These engines have a much different as delivered look than the earlier pre USRA Ts.  The Harrison Green era did not start until 1926 with some of the later Ps4 deliverys.  So black would be correct for USRA end in 1920 until the first repaint after 1926.

Problem is I have never seen a picture, color or not, of either engine during this period to see how painted, striping or not, lettering style etc.  Most pictures taken start around 1934-1935 or so.  Rumor has it that some Ts1's in the very late days of steam were painted in the black freight scheme with the big tender numbers - never seen any pictures of that either.

Still deciding on a pre 1926 Mountain.

Gray Lackey

These were made in 1917 by Baldwin for Southern. Over the years, these changed a lot. Compare early version 1453 to 1950 version 1452.

Assumption - 1920 to 1926 Ts1's were repainted after USRA control like the 1917 Ts??  Verify's the Ts which is also shown in the R.E. Price book with a Baldwin builders photo.  Lionel's engine looks closer (lets not say like) to the Ts1.  Brings up another question when did the Ts start getting modernized with square cab widows, centetered headlights and the like.  Pre 1926 is a little early for me, but no doubt a black Mountain would be different.

Early in service SRR photos are not common.  Thanks

Attached shows 1495 in 1919, SOUTHERN spelled out and no stripes.  Looks like Lionel got it right.  With the number being used, they found this picture too.

Looks like my decision has been made concerning V2.

The Southern performed many improvements / modifications to their steam fleet during the late 30s / early 40s. The SRHA TIES magazine ran several articles on differences between shops (mainly on Ps-4s) several years ago, and I think these are still available. The color postcard view of 1452 was taken in Asheville (I think) and the work would have been done in Spencer. The high valve ladder steps to the running boards are a dead giveaway to Spencer. The same modifications are evident on several different classes of steam locomotives. 

The Southern was one of the best in terms of keeping their steam locomotive fleet in good working order and performing many of the modifications / upgrades in house. 

As for repainting green, that would have been done post 1927. Any TS or Ts-1 in passenger service during the 1920s would be in the black scheme with pin stripes for decoration. 

Attached are some early images of 4-8-2 locomotives I found on southern.railfan.net. Most of these are in the 1917 - 1920 time frame. 

The pin stripe prior to the Harrison Green era is the question.  The pictures of the high headlight as built Ts doesn't show any striping.  The PDF attachment prior in 1919 of the Ts1, but post USRA, is on a passenger train but doesn't show any either.  The striping I thought came with the green (and was later extended to a few switchers that worked passenger stations).  Thus Southern spelled out with no striping would be correct pre Harrison, but no doubt if it existed the black with striping if it ever existed would be much prettier.

Here are two examples I found of early striping with the black paint, but on 1200 series 4-6-2 locomotives. These appear to be builder's photographs or taken just after delivery in the 1910s. 

Note the simple striping on the domes, below cab window and on the tender. This may have been worn by Ts or Ts-1 passenger locomotives as well. 

I got the American Materials Plant from Menards yesterday, so now I have a destination for my Southern two bay covered hoppers.  The hoppers were made by Weaver several years ago.  

Neal Jeter

Some action at the cattle loading pen.

Neal Jeter

Love to look at the beautiful green livery of Southern RR locomotives:

Speaking of beautiful green livery, the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum rolled out their restored E8, 6914, after many years.  <photos deleted>

Lionel Smithsonian 1401 boxcar 

Neal Jeter

Lionlman posted:

Lionel Smithsonian 1401 boxcar 

Neal Jeter

Nice car, but should have been done in 2008 when the exhibit opened! Rather expensive at $60-70 per car, depending on your source. 

Lionlman posted:

Lionel Smithsonian 1401 boxcar 

Neal Jeter

Nice boxcar!  I put it down on my wish list for Christmas!

Did anyone buy the new Lionel 4-6-2 Southern Crescent Limited in black paint scheme?  I am curious if Lionel used the same whistle from 2012 run of Ps-4.  

Here's the new Southern Crescent Limited Pacific in black.  It has a steamboat whistle.

Neal Jeter

Neal, excellent photos of a handsome locomotive.  Thanks for posting.

Lionlman posted:

Here's the new Southern Crescent Limited Pacific in black.  It has a steamboat whistle.

Neal Jeter

Neal

Very nice engine.  I was expecting to see the engine with the Elesco water heater not on the engine since Lionel's catalog artwork showed it without out it but I know Lionel tends to change their production runs from their original artwork.  From the photo above it looks like Lionel added lighted gauges in the cab or is that a glare with the photo?  So is the whistle the same whistle that they used with their recent Kanawha 2716 as shown in TrainWorld video below? https://youtu.be/x28BvgE_XnU

I am just curious since I am thinking about getting one.  

Thank you for sharing.  

Ken

Here's a video of the engine running.  The whistles sound the same to me.  Three of the gauges are lighted in the cab. 

Those lighted gauges are a nice item. Is that a first?  Haven't seen that prior to this one.

c.sam posted:

Those lighted gauges are a nice item. Is that a first?  Haven't seen that prior to this one.

They have been in some of vision line engines as I have been told but I don't own any vision line engines to confirm.  They are on the Milwaukee Road S3's but on the left side of the cab if I remember correctly from mine.  They appear to be on right in this cab which is nice feature and it is the first time in a Lionel Legacy Southern engine as far as I know. I also like the whistle which sounds good!

Lionlman posted:

Here's a video of the engine running.  The whistles sound the same to me.  Three of the gauges are lighted in the cab. 

 

AAAAAA THAT WHISTLE!!!!! Sounds like a mix between a big boy and an 844 type. Too bad I already have the greener lionel southern crescent 1393. 

Lionlman posted:

Here's a video of the engine running.  The whistles sound the same to me.  Three of the gauges are lighted in the cab. 

 

Beautiful locomotive and nice video. 

It was also interesting to see the new Lionel Theater car "Buena Vista" at the end of your consist.  I'm guessing the full length Vista dome "Delaware" is a Golden Gate Depot version?  It was reported in a separate thread that the Lionel car's Tuscan color was much lighter than expected.  One can certainly see a color difference between it and the Vista dome car in your video.  Is it as noticeable to the naked eye?  Thanks.  Bryan

(photo credits: Virtual Railfan)

Bryan:

The NS Delaware is from 3rd Rail.  The difference in the paint is noticeable.  As soon as I took the Buena Vista out of its box I knew the paint was wrong.  I did connect to the camera in the car and watching the live stream video is cool.  

Neal Jeter

Lionlman posted:

Bryan:

The NS Delaware is from 3rd Rail.  The difference in the paint is noticeable.  As soon as I took the Buena Vista out of its box I knew the paint was wrong.  I did connect to the camera in the car and watching the live stream video is cool.  

Neal Jeter

Neal, thank you for your reply and insight.  I guess if Lionel ever makes the rest of the NS OCS cars, they'll have to be wrong as well to match.     If Scott Mann could get the orders for a full consist, it's clear the 3rd Rail cars would be gorgeous and the way to go.  Best regards, Bryan   

Dave:

Thanks for sharing that.  I’ll have to order it.

Neal Jeter