Standard Gauge 6 drive wheeled steam engines

McCoy built a Ten-Wheeler in Standard Gauge. There was also a 2-6-0 Mogul; that might have been a CMC/CMT product. 

The CMC/CMT locomotives seem to be fairly well made. Their weak point mechanically is the nylon drive gears. I don't have the Ten-Wheeler but I do have the 2-4-0 and the boxcab electric and they strike me as simple and rather crude in design, with the gears being the only obvious weakness. Note that some CMC/CMT locomotives were intended to be run on DC and did not have either a bridge rectifier or an e-unit. Since they all have can motors, a unit without a rectifier will not operate on your usual AC transformer. Fortunately it's easy and cheap to install a bridge rectifier and DPDT toggle, or an electronic e-unit if you feel the need for one. 

Here is a CMT 4-6-0 Camel Back. I also have a Strasberg 4-6-0 but it shed a worm gear the first time I ran it. Still have not got around to fixing it.

Steve

One mustn't forget that Voltamp / Boucher, offered in the '20s, the 2500 'Pacific' 4-6-2. When first introduced it was a two-rail 2-Gauge, when Boucher got in the act it became a three-rail wide gauge (2¼") beastie. There was also the 2222 4-6-0 in the same time period. Ca. 1922 prices: 2222 loco and tender - $40.00; 2500 loco and tender - $60.00.

Ron M

Boucher bought out the Voltamp toy train line and converted the gauge on what they produced including the 2222 and 2500 Pacifics to 2-1/8" (Standard or Wide) gauge, not 2-1/4".

Steve,

Very,very nice!

Norm

In mentioning "700E", are you intending to refer to Harlan Creswell's Liberty Lines "600E" Hudson locomotive?  If you are, it was a "limited production" locomotive and I'd guess around 25 were made.  Arno could probably give us more details including a more acurate number.

Bob

PS.  Arno, Its time like these when we really need you to publish your book.

Okay, where to begin.Let's just stick to production as there are plenty of 1-offs that used these drive units or made their own.

Production, there were a bunch of 6-wheel drive units most don't know about:

CMC had the 2-6-0 Mogul and the 4-6-0 10-wheeler

CMT had the 2-6-0 Mogul, 4-6-0 10-wheeler and the Camelback

Glenn Toy Trains had the 0-6-0 Switcher

Harmon had the 4-6-6-4 Challenger, 4-6-4 Hudson and the 4-6-2 Pacific

Kresse/Harmon had the 4-6-4 Dreyfuss Hudson

Lionel LLC had the 4-6-4 Hiawatha and the 4-6-4 Commodore Vanderbilt

Liberty Lines had the 4-6-4 600E and the 608E Switcher

McCoy had the 4-6-0 #6 Chief Cle Elum

MEW had the 7/16" scale 4-6-0 Colorado Midland

Randall Trains had the 4-6-4 Hudson (but they didn't sell it with running gear)

Thorley Hoople had the 4-6-0 #89 Dr. George Cody

Roberts Lines had 4-6-6-4 Challenger, 4-6-4 Hudson and the 4-6-2 Pacific (these were based off the Harmon patterns, but better detailed)

There were a few 8-wheel drive locomotives as well:

Kress/Harmon had the 4-8-4 GS-4 and the N&W 4-8-4 "J"

Lee Lines had the 4-8-4 GS4

Here are some pictures of some of these:

(top to bottom)

John Daniel's Railway Lines GG-1

Lee Lines GS-4

Kresse/Harmon Dreyfuss Hudson

Richart Cascade Bi-Polar

(top to bottom)

CMT Camelback

McCoy Chief Seattle

Thorley Hoople #89 Dr. George Cody

Liberty Lines #600E

McCoy #6 Chief Cle Elum

Glenn Toy Trains 0-6-0 Switcher

Randall Hudson (top)

MEW Colorado Midland 4-6-0 (bottom)

Harmon Pacific

Harmon Hudson

Harmon Challenger

This wraps up the most common (if that could be said) of the 6 & 8-wheeled drive locos. I can answer questions about these, but I will not discuss production numbers at this time.

Hope this helps (I can't see how it couldn't),

ARNO

WOW!

Arno

On the Harmon Hudson, Pacific etc, it looks like there are no flanges on the rear driver. I would think the back has quite a bit of swing.

Steve

I see what you mean Steve.  Interesting way to do it, instead of the middle driver being blind.

Harmon based his 6-wheel drive off of a BAL motor. He would make a frame extender and bolt it onto the end of the BAL motor. This would hold the 3rd axle. The 3rd axle isn't geared to the BAL motor, but distributes drive via the side rods.

ARNO

You have to remember, these thing were made to run on STD42 curves. Wide gauge radius track was just being brought to market about the same time.

ARNO

Everyone

Thanks for all the great information. One of the best things about this forum is all the knowledge members have, and how freely they share it. 

For years I have been in awe of the Harmon and Roberts Line 4-6-6-4 Challengers I have seen in operation on SGMA layouts.  However, as a Milwaukee Road collector/operator I wanted a Milwaukee 2-6-6-2 Mallet since Milwaukee didn't have any Challengers.  

So a few years back I contacted Robert Thon about selling me a Challenger kit, which he had modified into a Mallet kit.  He informed me he could do this but like all his Challenger kits I would need to provide him with two Bild-A-Loco motors to which he would add the extensions seen in Arno's photo above.  That would have been OK but I wanted something more powerful and asked him if McCoy's 6-wheel super motors could be installed instead.  He said they could be used and that the resulting locomotive was super powerful.  In fact, he told me that he had just fabricated a custom Challenger kit using two of McCoy's 6-wheel super motors that he now had for sale as the customer had backed out of the deal after sending him the super motors. 

Wanting a Mallet kit, I passed on his offer and instead contacted McCoy about the availability of their 6-wheel super motors.  McCoy told me that they had none in stock but would inform me when they had fabricated another batch.  It's been two years and I am still waiting to hear back from McCoy.      

Bob 

PS.  Southwest Hiawatha,  Bob Thon may still have for sale that super powerful Challenger kit with two McCoy 6-wheel super motors installed.

i built a STD berk, the motor has been the head ache, , i may try the extended build a loco motor, but i think the gap between wheels will not look right,  using the small mc, coy wheel, to look like the 0 ga berk..

riki

That is a very nice looking job on the Berk. One suggestion, it might look more in proportion if you changed to a 2-wheel trailing truck and made it a Mikado. Just my aesthetic sense talking, it looks great. 

southwest, thanks, that is a 392e trailing truck, it can be changed, i can put lionel wheels back on the front too....those are USA diesel wheels.

riki, That is indeed a very impressive job on the locomotive.  I also notice what look like the G Scale Polar Express cars?  I put Lionel 100 series trucks under mine to run them on my standard gauge layout at Christmas, looks like you did something similar?

Good Morning Standard Guys folks!!

We make new standard Gauge that are from 18 inches to 18 feet and beyond.  These bridges are made in two styles the new one has  3 webs and vertical supports the older original has 4  web supports.  the cost is $88 for a single bridge and if longer bridges are ordered we  offer a free extra ($22) deck and two top straps ($5) for every additional bridge ordered.

We are offering the bridges with a 9" deck to bottom of front end cap on the top of the bridge.  there is 6 inches  of width and each bridge is 18 inches long

We also offer a girder or deck bridge that is $22 for a section.  Additional sections are available to extend the  bridge from 18" to 36". 54" to as long as you need.

The shown decks are 6 feet long cost is $154 as compared to a full drive thru bridge at 6 ft long for$352

Call or email mail us we are ready to help  you build your dream layout!! 

Here are photof of Boucher 2500 and 2222

Does anyone have pictures of any of the Moguls that have been made?

Here's one as a  ten wheeler, not a Mogul, but I have already converted it to a Mogul. The Mogules track better on the 42" Realtrax.

Steve

Tim, this is a Classic Models Corporation (CMC) Mogul as Arno listed above. It is the AC version, and was sold as a kit.

Again, in 10 wheeler configuration, but I will probably modify this one also to a Mogul.

Steve

Thanks guys, do these ever become available? If so what is market value? I am in the market for a Mogul but if they are rare as hens teeth I may have to kit bash something?

Tim, the Classic Model Corp 4-6-0's and 2-6-0's come up on eBay quite frequently, that's where I've picked up all mine.  They usually run between $200 and $300.  The camel backs less frequently, but still occassionally; they generally go for double or more.  You just have to keep watching and be determined once one shows.  The best deals are the Bicentennial mogul, they seem to be the most available

Tim,

In the CMC world (prior to CMT), the Moguls are out there. They came as the #200 Bicentennial Special and the #89 Strasburg Railway, both built starting in 1975 and sold until the company traded hands in early 1978. You can see a couple examples on my website http://modernerasg.com/m-files/1/cmc.html (still a big work in progress). The ratio between the 2 locos is about 5:1, so the Bicentennial locos show up far more frequently. If you are repainting one of these, I would opt away from the Strasburg RR version as these are more scarce and command a higher price, usually in the $300-$400 range for a nice example. The Bicentennial version can be had in the $200-$300 range. They both are about $100-$150 more if it comes with the 3 cars.

The CMT era (1978-1998) had a few leftover locos that they sold when they took over from CMC. Other than that, the only Mogul they produced was the #600 B&O from 1990-1994 (pic attached). These are pretty scare as I have only seen 1 in my many years of looking... so I bought it!

Your best bet, other than the Bicentennial loco, is converting a #1108 4-6-0 into a Mogul (as Steve Eastman is doing). These show up all the time in all sorts of condition. They came in many road names thru the years and were virtually unchanged. When introduced in 1977, CMC offered them in Southern Railway (green) and Southern Pacific (black). CMT continued them both until 1982. In 1981, CMT released the #1108 Erie (black) and #1108 PRR (black) versions. The Erie only lasted 2 years in the catalog, but the PRR was cataloged until 1994. The only real difference between the black painted versions are the markings on the tender. Although, the SP & SR version had a silver boiler band up front. If you went with a black loco, you would only need to repaint the tender, you could of course do both.

The early CMC locos were offered as either kits or R-T-R models. You can still find unbuilt kits and the cost is about the same. The practice of selling kits ended around 1985.

As for cars, you can find the early #13, #14, #15 and #16 day coaches (maroon and black) all the time. They are simple looking 10-window cars and can be painted as desired. The latter cars had 6 pairs of arch-top windows.

Hope this helps.

ARNO

Thanks ARNO, you are an incredible asset to this forum. Sounds like the Bi-centennial set is the way to go at this point. I could not get your website to open though? Keeps coming up as "error 404", tried it on my phone with same results

Sorry about the website. I think my son is working on it. I will let you know when it is back up.

ARNO