I have 3 LC+ locos: Jersey Central Pacific Steamer, Erie Camelback Steamer and New Haven FAs (powered and non-powered units). Each has it's own individual personality.

I recently posted on a different thread about the durability of the Jersey Central Pacific. It took a 4 foot dive onto the concrete basement floor. Only damage was a broken tiny, but important, piece of  plastic that holds the wheel axle in place that I fixed using Superglue. The body was totally unscathed from the fall.  It's a very good puller and IMO beautiful with its baby blue Blue Comet-like livery. Its ruggedness (a great quality IMO, also means its detail is mediocre for a modern engine at best.

The Erie Camelback, IMO, has very good detail, which surprised me when I first saw it at my LHS. Like the Jersey Central Pacific, it is a very good puller and, IMO, very attractive. Knowing LC+ engines have features I like a lot, including sounds, smoke, whistle, bell, electrocoupler, affordability and user friendliness, when I saw its detail, I had to have it.

Unlike the Erie Erie Camelback  and Jersey Central Pacific, the New Haven FAs are not very good pullers. I think the main reason for this is that it lacks heft, which the other LC+ engines have. This may be remedied by adding weights inside the powered unit, which I have not done yet. I simply have it pull fewer and lighter train cars, and then the train runs fine.

I lam very pleased with all 3 of these LC+ locomotives. I primarily run them when I have an audience, and especially during operating sessions with my granddaughter.

One more thing: the Erie Camelback does not have Bluetooth, but the other 2  LC+ engines do, so they can be run with the smartphone App. I like running them using my smartphone but prefer the dedicated remote. For future LC+2.0 engines, I plan to usually run them with the Universal Remote, which I already have.

Arnold

I agree, the LionChief steamers are neat little engines. I ended up with two last Christmas and they worked great right out of the box. Easy to use and no special setup, other than put batteries in the remotes, and they could pull over a dozen cars on my main layout. 

I wonder why Lionel didn't give the FAs more heft and two motors.  

What year / product number are we talking about?  The FAs catalogued in 2017 did have two motors, and a die-cast frame (i think.)  If yours doesn't, perhaps you could buy the parts and upgrade it to dual motors yourself.  Dual-motored diesels have a tremendous advantage because 100% of the weight contributes to tractive effort.

Dan Padova posted:

I wonder why Lionel didn't give the FAs more heft and two motors.  

$$$$$

You had to ask?

Pretty sure the LionChief Plus FA's all have two motors.  I almost pulled the trigger on a set at The Big E, but it was bought out from in front of me.

Jon

I believe some of the LC+ diesels had one motor, though I don't personally own any of them.  I've heard this discussed in the past.  FWIW, the Vision Line Genset from Lionel has one motor, but due to the diecast shell weight, it's actually a fine puller.  Add weight near the power truck for that single motor unit, it'll make a big difference.

Thanks for all your input regarding the LC+ NH FAs.

I'm not at home and do not have access to the engine or box at this time, which would have the Item # an DC other info, , but I believe the powered unit has 2 motors. However, the body is mostly plastic, which is probably why it lacks heft. I think adding weights is a simple and inexpensive solution, assuming I want it to be a better puller. Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I have a strategy I have for LC+ and my new LC+2.0 from the new catalogue once I get it, which I will now share because I think it may help others besides me.

Lionel, IMO, has been great making repairs free of charge if anything goes wrong during the 1 year warranty period. However, I am nervous about repairs once the warranty period expires.

My strategy is as follows to reduce the need for LC+/LC+2.0 future repairs. I only run them for show, when I have an audience and to entertain my granddaughters. 

For my daily runs, I mainly use my Postwar locomotives, which I also love, that are easy to maintain and get fixed.  Arnold

Not sure if that is the best approach for maintaining your loco's in tip-top shape, depending on how frequently those events take place. There are many treads about how trains not used frequently fail to start up the next time. My personal approach is to run every train at least once a month. I think that consistent running also stimulates me into lubing and servicing my engines on a regular basis, but it might make for an interesting topic - how frequently should engines be run to maintain them in tip-top shape without overusing them - is there a magic number ?

Here are some reasons I can think of, that would cause a loco to stop working after it was put away for a while:

(1) Broken wire inside (which might have happened because the trucks flopped around when you picked it up to put away.)

(2) Drive rods got bent due to careless handling near the wheels, causing a mechanical bind.

(3) Handrail antennae are contacting the shell due to careless handling or too-fragile design, limiting reception of TMCC signal.

(4) Circuit boards got "zapped" by random electrostatic discharge

(5) Keep-alive memory was lost after a long time without power, combined with an old ineffective back-up battery.

(6) Rubber tires dry-rotted, or melted because they came in contact with an incompatible substance on the shelf.

(7) Lubrication migrated away from a worn bearing while sitting, so the loco makes a squawking noise the first time it's run after storage.

(8) Electrical contact surfaces (wheels, rollers, commutator, brushes) accumulated oxidation during storage, leading to sparking or poor contact.

(9) Batteries leaked inside causing damage

(10) Capacitors dried out and no longer function as designed

(11) Zinc pest caused swelling or shrinking of die-cast parts, leading to mechanical problems

(12) Subtle changes to the layout or control hardware (i.e., worn guide rails on turnouts, TIU channel failure), leading to operational issues or incompatibility

A lot of these problems could be avoided by placing the item on a shelf, instead of forcing it into a too-snug box that was designed to protect it during shipping.  Storing your locos without batteries, in a humidity-controlled environment avoids most of these problems.

I'm not a fan of rubber tires, and I'm not really a fan of using handrails as TMCC antennae.  No one would be worse off if the tender shell, or even the coal pile were molded of Bakelite.  The tender FRAME could be die-cast, but the shell could be plastic.  Move the antenna to the tender or the coal pile-- no more handrail shorts!  It would also make TMCC retrofits a lot easier!

Ted, That is a great list of problems with storing engines!  I certainly do have to be careful as I don’t have a strong but delicate grip any more.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I believe some of the LC+ diesels had one motor, though I don't personally own any of them.  I've heard this discussed in the past.  

All the LC+ diesel engines have dual motors, with the exception of the NW2, which doesn't have enough room inside. 

I have a total newby question.

As I understand it from reading the forums, the LC/LC+/2.0 system only controls the engines and cannot control other things like switches or operating cars. If that is correct does one control the "other things" manually or even with a different digital control system, i.e., TMCC/Legacy/DCS?

Dan

Correct, LC+ 2.0 does not even come with a remote, but the engine control inside the engine listens to existing control formats. It's more like a universal engine that can listen to and be controlled via, the original orange LC/LC+ universal remote, the Lionel Bluetooth app on smart device, and now the LC+ 2.0 added listening to TMCC/Legacy, and last, LC+ and LC+2.0 has a switch to listen for conventional transformer control.

As far as controlling track and accessories, Lionel made TMCC and then later on upgraded to Legacy. Both are a system that can control both trains and tracks and accessories. Some accessories have receivers in them and are listening for command- others you use the add on box controls wired to the device.

MTH DCS protocol and remote is a different signal and different brand, but a DCS system can be connected to a TMCC/Legacy system and so you send commands from the DCS to the TMCC and that lets one remote control everything. Sadly, the opposite is not true. Lionel TMCC/Legacy cannot send commands to a DCS system and/or MTH trains.

I myself went all in and have both systems (Legacy 990 and DCS with remote and Wifi) and the Lionel LCS (layout control system). This is seriously expensive, but once you go down this road, also a lot of fun. To me, the LCS is one of the hands down coolest things if you go down that road. I have 2 cheap refurb iPad 2 tablets that I use in conjunction with the systems. LCS lets me draw my track plan (I limited to show the yards and all the switches an accessories rather than a true 1:1 track plan), but the best thing is the switch monitor module. Not only do I control switches with nothing more than touching the screen showing the switch- but I know if it switched and even if someone manually or a train enters that switch and switched it- the screen updates with real time status. Going further and not yet implemented, I have a tiny LED projector that I can attach to a cheap Ipad running the LCS app, and display as a projection on the wall from a building the track layout and real time status of switches, accessories, and even block power. You want to talk about the stuff people dream of, we can have it today.  I also used all Fastrack command switches making setup and wiring easier- it's just an accessory power to each switch and one wire from the status connection back to the switch monitor module- but you can get the same effect using other switches and the matching switch controller. Again, for me, the edge right now of LCS is it has monitoring capabilities, between the switch monitor module and the track sensor sections, it's beyond cool how far you want to go with automation and display. But the modules do add up, it's a lot of wiring and planning. Also, the LCS app with accessories like the trackside crane, the culvert loader and unloader, the AMC/ARC log loader (which funny enough, I prefer not for the command factor alone, but the more subtle blue and and silver paint scheme). There are just so many cool things about LCS, I cannot even possibly cover them all.

As of right now, I'm only using DCS to run MTH trains. I'm not using it for controlling Lionel trains or switches. I'm also not using the MTH AIU to control accessories or switches since I went with Fastrack command switches and LCS. I also don't often use the DCS wifi, but got it just as a nice to have. Example is, the PFA (passenger freight announcement) mode on the wifi app shows what state of the PFA you are in- something you don't get that additional info on the DCS remote. Point being, I tried to make my layout the most advanced options out there so when guests come over, we can run multiple trains with multiple people and everyone has some form of control.

On a totally different topic, I'm still on the fence on LC+ 2.0 engines. I'm taking a wait and see until they actually are at the local hobby shop. I say this, because my biggest annoyance with current Lionchief and LC+ is the cheesy sounds. It's just pathetic sounding to me, you can hear the decoding limitations, sounds like static. It's just not there. You take even an early Railsounds 2.0 blows even the best LC+ sounds out of the water. So on one hand, I love LC+ 2.0 accepting TMCC/legacy control, but if the sounds didn't improve, then it's still a kids toy to me and at adult pricing- no thanks. Wondering if Lionel will have any LC+ 2.0 engines at York next week, even if in prototype running where you could get a feel if the sounds will be as bad as the previous generation. Heck, even signalsounds can be better than a few examples of current LC and LC+.

The sounds in LC+ 2.0 are supposed to be based on the RS-Lite boards, and from all I've read and heard, they'll be improved over any of the LC or LC+ sounds.  As for "Kid's toy at adult pricing" the MSRP of the LC+ 2.0 Docsider is $250!  That give you a street price in the $220 range.  This gets you TMCC/BlueTooth/LC Universal remote operation, cruise control, fan driven chuffing smoke, 4-chuffs/rev, improved sound quality, etc.  What's the basis of your beef?  I'm already in for two of these, I can't wait to see them!

Pretty impressive if you ask me, John!  When they come out with an engine I want, I'll be ready to buy an LC+ 2.0!

Mark Boyce posted:

Pretty impressive if you ask me, John!  When they come out with an engine I want, I'll be ready to buy an LC+ 2.0!

Hi Mark:

Guess what? They are coming out with a locomotive with my favorite road name.

Detroit & Mackinac Railway

I do not have Lionel Legacy. I will have to run this loco with the Universal Remote or the LionChief App.

Gary

Wow, Gary!!  They are coming out with a D&M Rwy just for you!!  Pretty sharp!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

  What's the basis of your beef?

Simple, In the last year, I support repairs in the local train shop and then also bought 3 lion chief plus engines. As seen in the other thread, I can count 5 engines locally I know of, brand new from lionel, and seen LC+ board failures. They were either smoke unit failures (fan motor failing to run) or in one engine, a total power loss issue that was in the board- not pickups, not wiring, a confirmed flakey board. To put it mildly, QC was just non existant. This was both diesels and steam variations, all straight from the distributor. At the same time, the sound sucks. Yes, I said it, the sounds in these engines are pathetic. It's not the speaker, it's the quality and compression of the recording and playback system. 

So as such, you can promise me the world,but until Lionel actually delivers LC+ 2.0 engines, and we see some volume locally and they are better than the previous series (not just features) actual sound quality and QC with lack of these known failures, I'm not preordering anything from Lionel. They burned that bridge with me. I'm not falling for marketing. I put it in the same category of problems as my NS theater car being the wrong color red.

So yes, I have serious beef with modern Lionel.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, Mr. Olson.

I think it's a great idea that you plan to make a How To Video for using the LC Universal Remote. It would be great if such a video could be available well before the 2nd quarter of 2020 when Lionel delivers the new LC+2.0 engines that do not come with the dedicated remote. Arnold

I am resurrecting this topic for Mr. Olson, other Lionel representative, or knowledgeable Forum member:

Does anyone know if Lionel has made a video on how to use the LionChief Universal Remote?

If so, how can it be accessed?

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, Mr. Olson.

I think it's a great idea that you plan to make a How To Video for using the LC Universal Remote. It would be great if such a video could be available well before the 2nd quarter of 2020 when Lionel delivers the new LC+2.0 engines that do not come with the dedicated remote. Arnold

I am resurrecting this topic for Mr. Olson, other Lionel representative, or knowledgeable Forum member:

Does anyone know if Lionel has made a video on how to use the LionChief Universal Remote?

If so, how can it be accessed?

Arnold

 

Here's a good video on the UR. 

Great info here......thank you to all who have contributed.......

Peter

Trainlover9943 posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

One more thing, Mr. Olson.

I think it's a great idea that you plan to make a How To Video for using the LC Universal Remote. It would be great if such a video could be available well before the 2nd quarter of 2020 when Lionel delivers the new LC+2.0 engines that do not come with the dedicated remote. Arnold

I am resurrecting this topic for Mr. Olson, other Lionel representative, or knowledgeable Forum member:

Does anyone know if Lionel has made a video on how to use the LionChief Universal Remote?

If so, how can it be accessed?

Arnold

 

Here's a good video on the UR. 

Thank you, Matt! Excellent video.

Arnold

Matt, that video has a ton of information.  I only have a LC Polar Express and Hogwarts Express and only run them at holiday times.  I have not delved into the growing array of fine more realistic engines, but it is all good to know

Thanks guys. Don't give the credit to me though, it's not my video its forum member SandJams. 

Ok, someone please tell me what I’m missing. Page 89 of the latest catalog indicates both LionChief + and 2.0 steamers have rear headlights. Does this mean going forward starting with steamers produced in 2020? I’ve looked at the LionChief + CNJ camelbacks produced to date and they do not have rear headlights. What about the new 0-6-0Ts and legacy 0-4-0s? Catalog seems to be silent on rear headlights. Since I model the CNJ & PRR on the NY&LB and southern NJ, operating rear headlights is a necessity.

Sounds like a Lionel question.  In the previous LC+ steamers, there weren't enough pins in the drawbar to add the rear light functionality, I believe that was why it wasn't included.

Are there currently any scale sized diesel switchers available for use with the Bluetooth application?

SD60M posted:

Are there currently any scale sized diesel switchers available for use with the Bluetooth application?

 

Not to hi-jack the thread but I believe the Lionel series of SW7 diesel switchers in the 2018 Big Book catalogue are described as scale and BT operational.

Our club purchased a LC +2.0  Big Boy. We were able to run it well with the app. Great sound and smoke.

We could not run it with the Legacy remote. It programmed but would not run. Did we miss a step?

@DMASSO posted:

Our club purchased a LC +2.0  Big Boy. We were able to run it well with the app. Great sound and smoke.

We could not run it with the Legacy remote. It programmed but would not run. Did we miss a step?

 

Make sure its programmed as a TMCC engine. It won't work if programmed as a legacy. 

Thank you Matt. Will check with my member to see what he did. I will not respond until next week.

I’m running one with a Legacy controller and TMCC.

The classic issue is the CAB2 defaults to Legacy control when you enter an engine number, you have to change it to TMCC or it won't run.

I now have my first Lionel Legacy on my layout. I do not have the Legacy base but I am running this loco with the Lionel App and the Universal Remote.  The App show a thumbnail of the loco that is being used.

Gary

...I like these: 

... 

Mark in Oregon

Looking forward to my first Lion Chief 2.0 soon. Well, like in the fall.

Have one of the 0-6-0T Docksiders on order. Supposed to be an Oct/Nov delivery.

I am very impressed with Lionel's Lion Chief system. I just got a PRR A5 0-4-0 and I run it on my MTH DCS layout with the LC controller. Now if Lionel would only make battery operated Lion Chief engines, I would go to dead 2 rail operation. It's bound to be the next phase in O scale trains. My other question is why aren't steam engines made in plastic like diesels? Is it just traditional and require new tooling? 

For the record, LC locos run quite well on battery power. I first converted an LC+ loco to battery power early in 2019. It was reported on the forum. The June 2019 LCCA magazine included an article with all the details. Still running great today.