Thoughts on Lionel 2015 Signature Catalog

I like the tank car sets.

 

I thought the cover was nice.  

 

- Mike

I did an initial glance, and am interested in the Peensy B6 switcher to run on my branch line, and the CSX Bath tub Gondolas.  I may consider the upgraded Gantry crain which moves on the track.   

So what makes a 6464 boxcar be worth $10 less than a PS-1? Add a license fee to the 6464, and the price jumps $20! No wonder places like Charles Ro and Nassau have these freight car blowouts at the end of the year. 

 

I have seen the same price escalation in HO ($200 non-sound locomotives and $50 freight cars) but at least those prices seem more affordable. 

 

I wonder if Lionel's BTO locomotives have the same minimum order as Scott's 3rd Rail versions? 

As I read through the features for the new 21" passenger cars, my smile kept growing.  They now seem to be closely coupled with an active system to allow them to expand on curves. So much nicer than the typical passenger cars with the w-i-d-e gaps.  And capacitors for flicker-free operation?  I don't get much/any flicker, but reducing flicker possibility to zero is clutch!  One open issue for me is that the catalogue states the cars have detailed interiors but zero mention of whether that means they contain passengers. The photos provide no insight. 

 

I like the NYC Empire Express set, but my one reservation is price.  A little extreme in comparison to the same offering from MTH (although I am a sucker for whistle steam and any other steam effect).  And Lionel charges 2x (or maybe it's now down to 1.5x?) what MTH charges for passenger cars when bought as a set, yet I find MTH passenger cars to be more detailed, heavier and generally more solid.  Will see what discounting occurs at the dealer level.  

 

Peter

Nice too finally see the Norfolk Southern es44s. They will look great in a lash up with the earlier heritage units. More ethenol tankers are nice. Seems to be more focus on the modern era rolling stock. Some scale I beam lumber cars would have been nice.

I'm thrilled that Spencer, North Carolina made it into the catalog.  Also, those 21 inch Southern passenger cars are calling my name.  Tyler.

Return of station sound passenger cars stood out.

 

I think the Empire State Express is really nice, its stunning.

 

Wasn't expecting the E8 and E/9's to be missing, not complaining though.  Maybe its a chance to get the passenger cars out for the previous releases.

 

I had a hunch a Milwaukee Road Mikado might be offered, so thats the direction I'm going in 2015.  

I sure hope so, I want the "unstreamlined' version.... so close.

 

I wonder if the CC hudson released with legacy will means we may see a legacy niagara one day as well?

 

The new "batch" of lionmaster challengers after Lionel said they were "dropping the lionmaster line", re-affirms the fact that what Lionel says and what they do are two different things.....Darts anyone.

 

I guess maybe they were only dropping it for a couple of years

I'm intrigued by the newly tooled SD40 in Southern Pacific earlier generation, but likewise I don't see any indication that they will offer the SP lighting package (along with the L-shaped engineer side window).  So unless they do have those particular details, I'll pass.

 

Was floored to see someone finally offering earlier generation carbody units (Alco PA in this case) in Southern Pacific bloody nose paint scheme.  It's about time, as much as I like the Daylight paint scheme it gets rather repetitive and boring seeing it offered along with the black widow paint scheme each and every time on carbody diesels.

I think the gantry crane is my favorite. I need to figure out the footprint so I can place it on my siding

Nothin I Need 

 

I have a wait and see attitude about the prices.  For example the Empire State Express see at just under two grand . . . a bit steep.

 

But I keep thinking that the VLBB was $2700 list and you could buy it for $2000 with shipping, etc.  Lionel seems to have far more margin built in for discounts than a few yeara ago, and I'm still getting used to that.  The VLBB could be had for 26% off list price.  At that leve lof discount, I'd take another look at several things in the catalog.  

 

I imagine eventually I will get the LC+ Camelback and FT set (I agree F3s would be preferable - but . . . ).  Maybe even two sets of FTs, an A-B-B-A set, all four with smoke, would be awesome.

I found the reintroduction of the Lionmaster line intriquing unfortunately I'm not interested in the Challenger. Though I hope its profitable so Lionel see's reason to expand Lionmaster offerings. I was dissapointed in the LionChief + offerings hopefully they'll make new road names available later in the year. Wouldn't mind if they added LED lighting to the Madison cars as they have in the 21" cars. I suspected that would be one of the new features.

All in all I enjoy the new catalogs and even though there's nothing much I'm interested in, because of that I can continue to make plans for a new display without limiting it's features because of money set aside for new products.

Seems very limited on the deisel selections.  Prices are getting higher also.

While I am not in the market for Lionmaster any longer, I do think the Green Challenger looks great. I would jump all over a scale version of that.

So the Lionchief doesn't work with Legacy remotes? Seems like if it would, that would sell.

I love the B6 with legacy and the gantry crane, but both are priced too high for me to pull the trigger.

I'll bet someone will buy one of these and be EXTREMELY disappointed when they realize they spent $600, and Legacy "control" and "tethered for better electrical pickup", does not indicate sound or smoke.

Considering Lionel has done the Trainmaster and Sharknoses, and now the Empire State, that shouldn't be too far out of mind...

What's the attraction of the "pilot" models? I see that Ro has heavily discounted one for months and still not sold.

Ahh just think of it, a smoke unit that actually smokes, metal gears , stronger driveshaft, and driver tires that don't pop off of the rim. And maybe, just maybe, no pitting on those rims

Just quickly skimmed the new Signature catalog.  And won't have time today to listen to the podcast -- need an executive summary of that.    But let me just say this.  With my interests shifting away from O-Gauge toward Standard Gauge, I saw absolutely NOTHING in this catalog to draw me back to O-Gauge.

 

Two huge disappointments in the diesel section: no NS heritage locomotive honoring the Veterans (again) , and the new $520 ES44 street-price represents a ridiculous $120 price jump (30%) over last year's offerings.  For those of us that like to configure multiple powered units, that's not good news.  Last year, a pair of ES44's set us back $800. Now the cost to do the same will exceed $1,000.  Really?  

 

In an era when consumers are accustomed to getting more bang for their buck as each year goes by -- i.e., think computers and digital gadgets -- why are toy train importers heading in the opposite direction?   It's like a drug-dealing mentality.  Reel 'em in and hook 'em on the cheap, then make folks pay big time once they're addicted.  Shouldn't work that way here.

 

Importers are pushing enthusiasts to the secondary market in droves now, 'cause the "value" just isn't there in the newly delivered products.  If you thought this was the case in 2014, it just got a whole bunch worse!

 

Time to have fun building the layout and enjoying our existing rosters. 

 

David

I am surprised with the responses here honestly. I've been looking through it since Sat. morning and I really thought that come Mon. morning that people would be going crazy over it.

 

Personally I'm not even sure I'm going to be buying 3 rail this year, but if I did these really interest me:

 

-ESE with Legacy and whistle steam and matching cars

-The new 21" cars have flush windows, LED lighting with capacitors, Kinematic couplers, and Kadee mounting pads

-Newly tooled SD40s. 2 in Chessie please

-Another shot at the B&O, PRR, and Erie FAs

-PRR PAs

-Undecorated and Erie heavy mikes

-Legacy B6 in multiple PRR and Polar RR

-PS5/PS4 combo

-New Tank cars

-PS4 flats with loads

-More hoppers and cabooses with scale Kadee pads

-4 action crane

-New bridge

 

My wallet hurts just thinking about it.  And that's my biggest complaint (Other than they are still 3 rail trains) is the prices. It will be interesting to see what street prices are.

 

In an effort to be balanced, I will say that I think the way Lionel is offering the FA's, PA's, E8/9's just stinks. Only getting one unit with sound is ridiculous. Especially for the price they are asking. You are going to shell out how much money for an ABA and only have sound in one unit? In the case of an E unit that means you get one prime mover sound  (I don't think the sound file has two does it?) in the model where the prototype ABA would have 6! They should put speakers and sound cards in the unpowered units IMHO.

I'm probaly slow, but:

 

Has anyone noticed that the new Heavy Mike has the motor in the "wrong" place?

Like the old K-line Berk and Hudson? (The frame may well be based on the old Berk

tooling.) I've never had any trouble from my K-line Berk or Hudson, but I still don't

like the arrangement.

 

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What's the "attraction of the Pilot models"? If you have to ask...

 

I was relieved - and disappointed - that there was not a Pilot Niagara or PRR T-1 4-4-4-4

or (better yet) a PRR 6-4-4-6 S-1 Duplex - that last one would be stupendous.

All of them tempt me; the C&O H-7 is a joy to view. 

 

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The Empire State Express J3a's are great; love that they have done the later, not-brand-new versions.

 

Problem is, I have done a Mercury version myself using the TMCC edition from a few years ago, plus the PT tender - and the proper gray (not silver) drivers and boiler jacket.

So, probably not.

 

However...how about the later, changed non-streamlined J3a? Different FWH and other changes. No one has done that one except 3rd Rail. I have the 3rd Rail loco, but would

spring for the Lionel.

 

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I like the FT's; always have. The F3's need a rest. 

Might have gone for a WP Challenger - but instead we get THREE more UP versions!

The one obvious move for me in the new catalog is the USRA Heavy Mikado in Milwaukee Road. However, even that has a downside - the catalog shows the smokebox and lower firebox in bright silver, which the Milwaukee Road never used. All Milwaukee Road steamers had black or dark, dark, dark graphite smokeboxes. This means that if they ship the engine as cataloged, I'll have to repaint those areas in black. This won't be easy because of all the detail parts in those areas, but if I'm lucky I'll be able to do it with a soft brush and thinned-down paint so I don't have to take the whole thing apart (which would void the warranty!). Flat or satin black is pretty forgiving of touchup with a brush, if you get the paint consistency right. I will be e-mailing Lionel about that. They got the S3 Northern right, no reason they can't get the Mikado right as well. 

 

There are some clever ideas in the rest of the catalog, but the prices are breathtaking! I like the idea of the gondola with the overhanging pipe load and an idler flatcar, but at $175 MSRP for the set, I can live without it. Likewise the new tarped loads for the PS-4 flatcars. At 90 bucks for a flatcar with a lump of molded plastic, I'll wait for them to hit eBay. 

 

The extended truss bridge is very cool, and the way it is set up with modular pillars and the option of using it as a lift-out for the entry aisle is brilliant. However, it's 250 bucks and I'd need three of them for my aisle, so that isn't an option that interests me personally. Also, Lionel neglected to mention the internal clearances in the catalog. Footprint is there, but clearances are important if you're running a railroad!

 

There are some other things in there that I'd probably order if it weren't for the prices. We'll see how much product Lionel can move with the price escalation. 

FINALLY, Lionel listened and made 4 empire state express "Dreyfuss Hudsons." While I would have preferred the grey 20th century limited Hudson, who can be picky when this is a CLOSE second.

 

That's because it is the old K-Line Mikado. The Lionel Light Mikado is the K-Line unit with Legacy electronics, a fan-driven smoke unit, a better motor, and a couple of minor changes to the tender. The Heavy uses the same chassis and tender with a bigger boiler (as did the prototype). 

 

They never have.

The tank car and the gondola/flatcar sets were very nice.  While not a user of fasttrack I thought the extended truss brigde was nice, especially considering the configurable pylons.

 

And the overall layout/design was great as well!  Nice job Lionel!

currently squirming on which ESE to get. Very disappointed that the passenger cars are not aluminum and the related cost.

 

On a side note I am very glad I did buy the LIONEL texas special e7 set. This is a true collectors set...The first and last time Lionel did 21" aluminums

 

rat

Just wish that they could get the headlights in the correct location on the ES44ACs. 

Discontinued? Who knows?. People said LionMaster was discontinued, too.....!

None of the "new" stuff excites me, and they take away the "old" and exciting items... Really, no more tubular track?

I actually wasn't even going to bother looking at the new catalog until one poster mentioned the return of LionMaster. Now that's interesting to me, just like RailKing Imperial is as well. I have been busy the past year or so replacing O-31 curves on my layout with mostly 0-54 & 0-63 so I could run larger O-Scale equipment. On the other hand, the price of the O-Scale has been definitely putting me off so the return of a line of smaller, less expensive but still detailed equipment has me thinking. I will NOT spend $2500 for a steam engine, however $800, or whatever the discounted price will be, is a possibility. (As is LionChief Plus).

I noticed that too.  Haven't looked closely yet, but my first impression was Lionel kept the 18" aluminum car price-point, but swapped in the less-expensive-to-manufacture 21" ABS bodies.  Although admittedly, there's a new tooling investment to overcome.  Over the long haul, it's probably better profit margins IF -- and that's a big "if" -- the market will actually absorb 21" cars.  But hey, I never thought Lionel would sell as many Big Boys as they reportedly did, so ya just never know.

 

David

I saw the GM Demonstrator F-7 on the turntable and thought, "Oh, boy!" Then nothing. I'd buy the demo F-7 for sure but not offered. They made a mistake showing the roundhouse pic with all those F-units unless they are testing the waters.

I own the last legacy lion master challenger. To see it brought back from the dead should make a lot of people happy. This is a great loco. Lionel listened to all those lamenting its demise.....build to order means no complaining if you dont grab one....order now or forever hold your peace.

Boy if I ran eastern roads that ESE set looks great.....still tempting.....

I, too was surprised at the MSRPs listed. $1300 is a bit steep for a Milwaukee Road Mikado. I think what surprises me the most is comparing it to the MR S3 from a few years ago. The price point for it was under $1000 which, psychologically speaking, was acceptable. Given how successful that was, it's a wonder that Lionel has gone with a different business model. Oh, well. I didn't buy a Super Bowl ticket, either.

It's not an apt comparison between model trains (and most other things), and consumer electronics. It's fairly well known that consumer electronics are the exception to the rule about rising prices, for the most part, and have been for quite some time. With the vast majority of other things, prices do trend upwards. It would be wonderful if the pricing history on automobiles (and most other things) was like that of televisions, but it's not.