Thoughts on Lionel 2015 Signature Catalog

Lot of talk so far about pricing, but what counts is the street price. I pay no attention to what is listed in the catalog.

I think that Lionel fans will have to get used to plastic streamline passenger cars in the future. The aluminum 18" cars that appear in the catalog are probably being released to get rid of existing inventory (my guess). With the apparent difficulties over the past few years in getting the aluminum passenger cars out the door, plastic has to be a move to stay competitive (MTH & Atlas).

What surprises me is no one has mentioned that in the Wabash 21" passenger cars, with the seven cars you can get four dome cars. Good move.

Every time a new catalog comes out, there are those who say they are going to buy and those who have no interest. Let's see what happens to this one when the dust settles.

Nothing in On3

These Passenger cars are going to be very detailed and will raise the bar for Lionel!

All I like are the P.R.S.L. steam switcher and the new adjustable-height truss bridge.

     Hoppy

I have seen the street prices thats what i am mad about .. 520(street price)bucks for a plastic es44 that was 399 (street price)one year ago is stupid.

As far as what I see and prices, I'll wait till next catalog and browse E-Bay offerings. Nothing I need at the prices shown.

High-priced "durable plastic" 21" passenger cars?  It looks like the appeal and value of 21" aluminum K-line (and even GGD) cars will continue to grow.

Plastic isn't the issue. Look at the marvelous CZ cars atlas has been able to turn out lately (albeit very slowly), in blasphemous ABS plastic.

The issue with these cars is that they're generic cars. Even with the K-line cars of 10-15 years ago, they would announce a named train, and the cars would match the train, fairly decently in the window arrangement department. And look at what those sets are still going for.... even a GGD release isn't dampening the K-line prices of the same train (and in some cases, the K-line set goes for GGD money).

Looking at the photos catalog images, the "sleepers" and the "coaches" all look the same, and I'm not sure what exactly that window arrangement represents (it looks like an 11 Double Bedroom or something). At least the diner appears to have a diner window pattern (*cough MTH cough*). Slapping the toy train treatment on a 21" car just isn't going to send the 21" car guys running for them, and like the auto racks, they say O54 but you're looking at O72 cars (about 14 feet of them for the whole train). 

Make whole trains like K-line was running, get them right, and then I think a lot of people will take notice.

Tool up a Budd, PS and/or ACF car, slide tool the window bands and make the right cars for the right trains. 

This is just a picture of the turntable and round house at the NCTM during the "Streamliner Event."

Ron

Disappointed no Norfolk and Western cabin cars.  Thought we may have had a chance for these from Lionel.

Ron

True. Lots of wisdom in that statement.

Since I don't spend my time WISHING for specific items, I'm never disappointed. I saw some cars that would go nicely on my railroad. The end.

Don't panic, on the Notch 6 podcast Mike says they have smoke and sound. No whistle steam though, loco too small

ehhhh, not impressed  but it makes my wallet happy

My thoughts on new catalog? .... LionMaster is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Lionel ... Challenger for me!

The Lion Master Challenger looks good and will run on 031. 

The tease with the Tennessee Valley's 4501 Light Mikado in her latest black and gold photo leading into the steam section was almost a heart stopper until I found it was Heavy Mikes being offered.  #$%&!  Sigh....maybe volume two...

Ah, but the Southern 21" passengers....nice.

Bryan

I thought of you immediately, Brian, when I saw the Bluebird offered with four domes. Though, the seventh car should also be a dome, it's a huge improvement over their 2014 18" edition (canceled?) with only one dome coach and a possible sans dome observation car. I'm assuming your in for a set.

They forgot to make a figure pack of 5 People who fight back against the Zombies.

Andrew

Why does Lionel offer a Nickel Plate Road Alco PA and no Passenger cars to go along with it

I saw the GM Demonstrator F-7 on the turntable and thought, "Oh, boy!" Then nothing. I'd buy the demo F-7 for sure but not offered. 

 

Ahem, NOt to burst your bubble but there was NO Emd F7 Demo at Spencer, N.C.. The Pic you see is the EMD FT demo. MTH did make a model of it so did Third Rail.  the F7 Demo looks like this:

But Why the sd40? Did Lionel Acquire Atlas O tooling for this loco? I will consider the Conrail #6300 SD40 since I missed the Atlas O unit. The Only issue I will have is the undersized Fuel Tank that Lionel Loves to Place on their diesels.

Examining the drawing and catalog pic even furthur, I see Lionel is trying to attempt to place a -2 rear brake wheel on the porch.I don't recall a plain sd40 with a brake wheel on the rear porch, only some rebuilt ones to -2 standards. IF the Conrail #6300 has this incorrect detail- not to mention the engineers side short hood will probably have the incorrect grab rail, for the price, I'm NOT BUYING! I believe Atlas O got this detail right!

No mention of the type of motor used in the new Rotary Snowplow. Since it has been upgraded with a separate motor for the blades, I was hoping they had replaced the Pulmor with a can-motor for the drive.

Dave

Exactly my point earlier.  You'd think folks are STARVING for this new stuff the way prices are escalating.  $120 price increase for the exact same technology product (i.e., no new features, no change in specs, etc...) just a few months apart in delivery is absolutely insane.

The reality is a LOT of us have more toy trains than we'll ever "need" already.  And I think more and more folks are slowly coming to the realization that it's time to enjoy the stuff we already own rather than chase the next big thing from the importers all the time.  'Cause frankly speaking, the price/performance of these "next big things" is getting notoriously worse each year compared to the abundance of Like-New or MINT items being offered in the secondary market.  Better to just go on a shopping-spree where prices are much more attractive.

I think the dealers are gonna feel it big-time with this new catalog.  Orders are gonna be down dramatically at these street-prices.  Case in point:  I might have been inclined to order another pair of ES44's at the older price-point, but I'm ordering ZERO at the new price point.  And I don't think I'm alone in that thinking.

David

My thought • Lionel uses first class artwork & photography in all their catalogs.

ES44AC's; same price on the "dressed" Southern Belle and the  "naked" Belle......?? I don't want to hear about the same labor costs with paint masks on this one......

Maybe the PRR Senator aluminum cars and the rocket launching stuff

The B6 as shown is does not look at all right to me.  The boiler profile, the running boards etc.... just not right.  Probably what I will do is look for a left over M1 hopper set

Glad to see Lionel finally is producing StationSounds diners again.  However, unless I missed something, they forgot about everyone who has purchased -- or is still waiting to purchase -- 18" passenger car sets.  Don't quote me on the number, but I gotta believe there's close to a dozen sets that have been delivered since 2010-ish along with previously announced sets still due out later this year that won't have a StationSounds diner.  Why leave out the low-hanging fruit?    They don't even need to sell those... just take the orders.    Instead, a complete disconnect.  Nothing.  Very disappointing. 

David

First impressions are always important.

It looks like some out-of-the box thinking is starting to creep into Lionel's offerings this year.

The 21" passenger cars got my attention. Should be interesting to see what's offered in subsequent catalogs. MSRP is pretty consistent with the going rate for scale passenger cars.

Another interesting tidbit was "unique road numbers" on the 86-foot Excess Height box cars. If they mean no two cars in the same run have the same number, this presents a major positive change since you can buy as many as you want without having to re-number or creatively place them in a train.

The bridge pier blocks and the new truss bridge are also interesting.

Not much really interested me with respect to the locomotive offerings.

Charlie,

Any idea if the 21" passenger cars will include figures onboard?  Nothing in the description other than "detailed interiors".

Thanks,

Bryan

I agree, I would like a couple of the SD40's and ES44ac's but the street price increases are putting a damper on that thought. 

Charlie, You mean interior-wise or other details? Lionel has done superb interiors - I still take my Acela down from the shelf just to admire the view through its windows.

Seriously, the catalog's out now so why not give some specifics?

I'm going to watch for it when it comes out.  Finally something small . . .

Still laughing at those 21 FOOT passenger cars cataloged on pages 76 thru 79; and they still negotiate 54" minimum curves to boot! Getting them in the trainroom is going to take some effort.....

Thankfully, nothing in this catalog is a "must have" for me, given the prices, as I'm just getting started in O Scale & looking to "grow" my inventory. 

I definitely have an interest in the Empire State Express set, but I'm not drooling like I would be if they had a 20th Century Limited & Hudson set.  The Wheeling & Lake Erie Mikkado caught my eye, as the W&LE is a local line & I don't see a lot in that road name.  However, I'd much rather have the Legacy W&LE Mallet.  Finally, I'm Polar RR fan & the B6 caught my eye, but not sure if I like it for $700.  For that price I might as well get the Legacy K4. 

Will be interesting to see what the secondary market prices are for this stuff.  BTW, as someone new to all this, when do they stop taking orders for the "Build to Order" stuff?

They also forgot about those who operate conventional and traditional, not scale sized trains.

Jeff Davis

Southwest Hiawatha made a good point about the "backwards" motor configuration

in the new Heavy Mike in that it is, I presume, the old K-line Light Mike chassis with a bigger boiler, fairly paralleling reality.

I had forgotten about the K-line Light USRA Mike - and I own one! Admittedly it is a project loco that I bought cheap-ish, tested and put back in the box for now, but still...

If the Backwards Chassis made it possible for Lionel to give ("give"?!) us the USRA Heavy, then bless its little metal heart - I'm OK with it.

We now need the USRA Heavy Mountain - few were built (few USRA 2-6-6-2's were built,

also, but Lionel made them - twice!), but they had the same driver size as the USRA Light 4-8-2, and Lionel has produced that model. So, bigger boiler and cylinders, different domes, and we're off to the USRA Heavy Mountain (and derivatives).

Now about those USRA 2-10-2's...

Wow • Powered B Units, for the LionChief Plus.......

  Click artwork to enlarge.

The 21" passenger cars are very exciting.  The list of features is impressive and 7 cars for a street price of  900 bucks seem like a very fair price.  I will wait patiently for UP, SP or ATSF cars.

Features:
�� All New body tooling
�� Durable plastic bodies
�� D e t a i l e d i n t e r i o r s
�� LED lighting with capacitors for
f l i c k e r - f r e e r u n n i n g
�� Separately applied details on
undersides and bodies
�� Flush-fitting windows
�� Opening vestibule doors
�� Narrow or full width diaphragms per
prototype
�� Die-cast operating “Kinematic”
couplers auto adjust for close
coupling on straightaways and wider
coupling on curves
�� Scale Coupler mounting pads
�� Die-cast metal sprung trucks
�� Set Length: 81”- 84”
�� Minimum Curve: O54