Dropped by Norms O scale in Casco Maine... this engine runs in one direction only on DC. what can be done so it operates in both directions? Motor has brushes...
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It appears to be a 2-Rail model, thus by reversing the DC polarity, the motor should run in the other direction.
Bill,
If there is room for an E unit you will probably need to engineer one into the old system.
PCRR/Dave
what is an e unit....?
Bill,
That is what the E in the Lionel 263E stands for, it allows the engine to operating in both directions both FWD and REV. Many of the 1st generation Trains had no E units.
It maybe easier to engineer the new ERR controls into her however, would give her sound and all!
PCRR/Dave
It has a postwar American flyer E-unit (reverse unit) in it. Looks like it also has a plunger for a postwar Lionel smoke unit. Are you sure it's DC? There should be videos on youtube describing how to repair the american flyer e unit.
The model was made by International in Japan, probably late 50's to early 60's. Prototype Baltimore & Ohio Railroad used in the Baltimore, MD dock area.
Paul,
Good catch I did not see the AF E unit, maybe he can get one some place and simply replace it. I believe SCD is correct, looks to be an old Japanese pre War upgraded engine, with a couple different American manufacturers parts.
Definitely looks like a WillyGee project engine for sure!
PCRR/Dave
Don't ask me I'd melt her down for more diesels! 
International Model Products (IMP), Japan, c. 1956 if my info. is correct. Produced in both 2 and 3-rail versions. I came across one several years ago that had the same open-frame motor and e-unit, and I had Frank Timko put in a can motor, electronic e-unit, and better pickup rollers. Before:
I replaced/added detail, painted/lettered, and voila:
It runs well, fairly slowly, through the original reduction gears. I love neat, unusual little engines like this. Have fun with it!
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I think we need a bit more information, to be honest. Is this engine 2 rail O (if you look at the trucks, does it have the roller for the third rail?). If not, this is a 2 rail O and as someone else said, reverse the polarity of the power coming in (swap the neutral and hot lead) and the direction will change (basically the same thing as an HO scale engine, where on a simple power pack there is a direction switch that reverses the polarity).
Three rail normally uses a reversing unit, on older engines it was a mechanical unit called an e-unit, that used a solenoid and drum to reverse polarity, later engines use solid state units to do the same thing. In theory if you put dc right to the motor and reverse the polarity of the wires as far as I know it should reverse it as well, the e-unit was allowing a remote changing of direction,at the motor it is reversing polarity the same way.
bigkid posted:I think we need a bit more information, to be honest. Is this engine 2 rail O (if you look at the trucks, does it have the roller for the third rail?). If not, this is a 2 rail O and as someone else said, reverse the polarity of the power coming in (swap the neutral and hot lead) and the direction will change (basically the same thing as an HO scale engine, where on a simple power pack there is a direction switch that reverses the polarity).
Three rail normally uses a reversing unit, on older engines it was a mechanical unit called an e-unit, that used a solenoid and drum to reverse polarity, later engines use solid state units to do the same thing. In theory if you put dc right to the motor and reverse the polarity of the wires as far as I know it should reverse it as well, the e-unit was allowing a remote changing of direction,at the motor it is reversing polarity the same way.
Sorry for the delay..was driving, anyway yes it has a 3 rail pickup.
Pine Creek Railroad posted:Paul,
Good catch I did not see the AF E unit, maybe he can get one some place and simply replace it. I believe SCD is correct, looks to be an old Japanese pre War upgraded engine, with a couple different American manufacturers parts.
Definitely looks like a WillyGee project engine for sure!
PCRR/Dave
Definitely looks like a WillyGee project engine for sure!
Not for me...i am so DCS digital it is pitiful
The tech involved with this is more of a DCC guy and was thinking of a can motor and Loksound ESU. These mechanical e units have me buffalowed but then again i just figured out how to repair our toilet.
Either way, that appears to be an AC/DC motor. The simplest thing is to stick a two dollar bridge rectifier in there, and run it on DC.
The only reason Lionel and 3-rail is still AC is tradition. Most motors are now DC, so converting the transformer to DC could be done once at the transformer, or multiple times at each locomotive. If you do it at the locomotive, you also need a complicated E-unit. Makes no technical sense.
bob2 posted:Either way, that appears to be an AC/DC motor. The simplest thing is to stick a two dollar bridge rectifier in there, and run it on DC.
The only reason Lionel and 3-rail is still AC is tradition. Most motors are now DC, so converting the transformer to DC could be done once at the transformer, or multiple times at each locomotive. If you do it at the locomotive, you also need a complicated E-unit. Makes no technical sense.
Wouldn't they need some form of reversing unit to change the polarity? If they are running off an a/c transformer, they assume the unit will respond to the power off/on as cycling direction. If they simply put a bridge rectifier on there, they would need some sort of reverse unit to change the polarity, or it would work in whatever direction they had the hot and return side wired on the engine.
willygee posted:Not for me...
So we can't melt it down for more diesels? 
Engineer-Joe posted:willygee posted:Not for me...
So we can't melt it down for more diesels?
What temp does brass melt...
? This is a cool little engine though...smooth action but next to my premiere sd 70's ,Mac's and ES44's...soooo tiny.
DC/AC and the number of rails are not connected. A DC loco could use a 3-rail system - those old outside third rail locos were often DC - and a 2-rail system could certainly be run on AC power. It has to do with the motor being set up for AC or DC, not the route of the current.
BTW - Right-of-Way made a 3-rail version of this B&O so-called "Dockside" back in the 80's. Well-done, runs smoothly, nicely detailed. I see them on eBay for $200 - $300. I like projects, but if you can buy it ready to go...
willygee posted:Engineer-Joe posted:willygee posted:Not for me...
So we can't melt it down for more diesels?
What temp does brass melt...
You know, I've never asked how hot the torch is!! I light it, adjust it a little, and start cuttin'....
If you can strap it to a flat car for a load, it may work. That huge motor taken out of a table or floor fan back in the 50's, has to go. It 'll mess up your diesel rumble broadcast!!
No - the AC/DC motor can use the bridge rectifier to ensure that the stator or field winding gets the same polarity regardless of track polarity. Then, a simple DPDT switch at the power pack controls motor rotation direction.
The bridge rectifier is about the size of a quarter. Easy to hook up.
One can see part of smoke unit up front but only part of it unless the rest is up under stack in the shell somehow.
Just to clarify for Willy Gee and others.
This is a model of the Baltimore and Ohio C-16 0-4-0T switcher, commonly referred to as the Docksider because of its design and ability to negotiate tight track areas along the docks of Baltimore and Philadelphia.
Four units were made in 1912. Nos. 97 and 98 served their entire lives in their original configuration. Nos 96 and 99 were converted to traditional coal-burning 0-4-0 switchers, with added tenders and their saddle tanks removed and reclassified C-16a.
The C-16 Docksiders have been made by IMP, ROW and US Hobbies in brass and by MTH in diecast in O gauge. The MTH model is readily available on the secondary market.
