Vision BB coal load worth it?

Unless you are watching/concentrating specifically on the coal load, you'll probably miss all the (in)action.  I'll take flak on this, but, what's the point?  Much-ado-about a little action.

Great question Lee. My Dad always told me to judge the quality of a pizza by the last slice.  He said the first one is always good.  I can't afford one financially or radius wise myself but sure love looking at them.  If the coal load is just okay then it helps the hurt stop hurting in terms of not owning one.

I agree with Severin - "much ado about a little action" - no flak from me. No question the previous JLC Big Boy was (is) a superb representation of the original Big Boy. With the exception of the new sound and steam features, which are an improvement, the diminishing coal load is a non-starter for me and not worth the additional cost or engineering effort.

Having spend a good deal of time running both versions, I would have to say that the disappearing coal load would not be a feature that would excite me enough to spend extra for.

 

However, the sounds and extra smoke features on the Vision model would be enough to justify the upgrade from JLC version to Vision version.  The sounds on the Vision model are the BEST I have ever hared in any model.  And the smoke alternating stacks as it exhaust is a real crowd pleaser.

 

Happy railroading,

Don

I was much more enamored by the great sound, excellent detail, and the smoke effects than the coal load.  OTOH, the coal load is kinda' neat, but it's not the feature that influenced me to buy the locomotive.  I will say for being rubber, it looks better than I expected it would.  It's not quite a real coal load, but it's way better than most of the fake ones.

 

Coal load feature wasn't a deciding factor in this purchase-sound (THAT whistle-cuts through your soul) and smoke were.

 

I have all 3 Lionel BBs, (TMCC, JLC, VL).  The JLC is a good model.  The VL is a great model with all the sounds and smoke.

 

Not that the JLC version isn't a smoker!

A good point.  I was surprised myself that a rubber diaphragm could look so coal-like.  Really not a bad likeness.  

 

It is cool to pull  up under the coal elevator and "load the coal" now and then.

 

Kind of like rain sensing wipers on a car.  Nice but I think I can manage to turn on the wipers when it is raining.  

 

Now how about a real coal load that gets augered into the water compartment of the tender as it depletes! 

I ran my visionline challenger the other night and I remember that being my best sounding steamer.My vision big boy it so much better.

I think it's a Really Nice Feature,and the WHEEL SLIPPAGE was an added Wow, YES,

the Entire VL BB Is in my opinion a huge success....I think Lionel did a Fantastic Job in givying us an Engine With a great deal of detail, and The Depleting Coal Feature, Sounds and all is Amazing......The past Legacy Big Boy was a Great Beginning for the Legacy System....Itvjust keeps getting better, Lots more Fun.....Happy Railroading...

my question is what happens when the rubber "dries up" many years from now and there may be no replacement parts avail. i agree with pennsydave something mechanical would probably been more lasting.

Many years from now when the rubber dries up, I just remove the gears and mechanism and put a real coal load in it's place.  Then I'll have what everyone is complaining about, real static coal load.  I don't see this as a big issue.  It's not difficult to put a real coal load in a tender, especially when all the work of hollowing out the hopper is already done!

 

Parts will always be there.  May not be original manf's, but some aftermarket company will have it by then.  Especially if we see 'main stream' items get depleting coal loads in the future.

 

Not trying to sound like a smart alec, so please don't take offense.

The coal load action is a big WOW factor for visitors to the G&O garden railroad.  I won't say that this features gets anyone into the hobby but it certainly attracts attention.  Even the HO scale guys are impressed.  I know one guy whose first ever O gauge purchase was a Lionel VL Big Boy.

 

 

The more we show off what Lionel and MTH are doing on the scale side of the hobby the more interest there is joining the 3-rail ranks.

 

Joe

I didn't get to spend as much time looking at a V BB as I wish I had, in retrospect.  But I wonder about that coal load.  It looked surprisingly good for rubber, as was discussed above, and I wonder now if it was some special coating - of the type that dries up over time (similar to but hopefully slower to dissove than Armor-All) that gives it a coal look.  If and when that dries up . . . 

 

Is the rubber sealed around the upper edges?  If so, could one just put some real coal on top of it?  Or would bits of it get around seals and down into the mechanism below?

Then you add a coal load like they do on hoppers, not really a big deal.

 

But I love the feature.  My mother-in-law (Who normally just rolls her eyes at me and my trains.) went wow when I showed it to her.  Truth be told, I actually like the look of the deplete load better than the full (Since most of the time that's how a real tender would look.) so it stays down most of the time.  But I do enjoy taking the time to reload.

Lee,

Look at Alex M's thread he did on the VL BB.  It had tons of pictures.  

 

I'll link it for you later today.  Can't do from my phone.

I think the majority of VL BB owners bought it not because of the depleting coal load. As many have stated the smoke effects (blow downs, whistle, dual chuffs, etc.) and the stereo sound effects from three speakers were biggest factors. I wouldn't have bought mine if the only difference between this and the legacy version was the coal load. It is a nice "bonus" added feature that is in itself very unique. You certainly won't find it on any other engine as of current.

Different folks will be drawn to different features.  And that's just human nature.  Clearly, Lionel "led" with the depleting coal load feature when the VL Big Boy was announced.  And having the engineering background that I do (decades ago now), I'm sure those folks respinsible for its design and implementation are very proud of it -- as well they should be.

 

As with all things technology, some features take hold while others never gain traction in the marketplace.  This feature is extremely ingenious, but will it appeal to the masses vs. The price premium to have it included? The jury is very much still out on this one.  But from the feedback thus far, it's not a driving differentiator that would motivate folks to buy.  And in our world where bean-counters rule which features stay and which ones get eliminated, i suspect the depleting coal feature may fall into the latter category.

 

Or if you look at it another way... just because a feature CAN be implemented, that doesn't necessarily imply it SHOULD be.  Bean-counters notwithstanding, the market will dictate it's ultimate fate.

 

David

An extra grand for the disappearing coal load? Absolutely not!

 

However you forgot to factor in the other cool features.... ones that I thought were note worthy...

Wheel slip sound feature, whistle steam and other smoke features, sensor system, and wow what a great whistle and sound improvement!

 

Well I am at the same point you are, I have the JLC BB cab no. 4014... do I need the Vision Line ... no... do I want it yes!

 

But decided no, since I rather spend money on the layout I will wait.

Originally Posted by Joe Barker:

Agreed!

 

When I run my VL BB for my guests, many of whom are not that familiar with the locomotive, I ask them to note the level of coal in the tender. When done, I run the loco so the tender is under the coaling tower, and proceed to fill it up. Everyone thinks that is really cool; both the realistic coal filling sound as well as the growing pile of coal. 

 

Alex

 

PS. But this feature alone was definitely not why I bought it.

The operating coal tender is not a feature that really interests me.I've been the fence about these having not been able to see/hear one in person. Do they really sound that much better than the JLC versions? I've got nine scale Big Boy's already. 5 MTH and 4 Lionel (3 are JLC's).It sure is tempting based on what everybody's reporting. 

 

IMO, the VL-BB is the best sound I've ever heard from any model train, period.  So, yes, it's much better than the JLC version!

 

Coal-load thing: no, not even a little.

For me the VL BB was a first BB for me, so the timing was right for me to finally have one for my fleet. It has all of the features that I could want.

 

Not so sure I'd say it's the best sounding whistle of ANY model train, but then again I'm not a big fan of steamboat-style whistles to begin with.  I much prefer the hooter style whistle of the Y6b or even the cool-sounding whistles on Lionel's latest Pennsy M1A, the Milwaukee Rd S-3, and the Santa Fe Northerns 3751/3759. 

 

Having said that though, I would agree that the VL BB's whistle has a "presence" that goes far above any of the other steamboat-style whistles the company has produced to date.  So in that regard, it's sets a good reference standard for steamboat-style whistles.

 

Legacy sound is tops!!!

 

David

>>>IMO, the VL-BB is the best sound I've ever heard from any model train, period.  So, yes, it's much better than the JLC version!<<<

 

You must be a big fan of reverberated sound. Want perfection?  Listen to the clear whistle notes of the older Lionel FEF Mountain. You'll hear beautifully reproduced UP steamboat sound.. IMO, it blows the BB away...  

 

 

 

I think most people are talking about the chuffing sound, its depth, complexity, and particularly, its dynamicism, rather than whistle sounds, when they speak about the "sound" of a loco.  the V BB is off the charts there, I agree. 

I've heard the FEF, and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

I've heard both, too.  Three speakers in the V BB. Sorta makes a difference . . . 

 

I can't say the V BB is the best sounding loco, period - only that it's the best I have heard so far.

The FEF is too quiet... the Vision Line BB just blows you away... 

I would say the sound is up there in the top 5...

The FEF from 2008? 

 

The coal load does nothing for me. I don't know how much it adds to the price of the locomotive, but if it's more than ten dollars (and I bet it is), it's not worth it. Frankly, I hope this feature doesn't flow downhill into other models, raising the price with no great benefit. Whistle steam and better sound are worth the extra cost; the "depleting" coal load isn't. 

 

On a related thought, I wonder why every 0 scale steam locomotive you see has a full load of coal. It's as if every engine on your layout just left the coaling tower. You would think the manufacturers might sell a locomotive with half a load of coal, or even interchangeable coal loads so you could run your engine full or half full. To me, that would be better value than the expensive and mechanically complex depleting coal load on the VLBB. 

There is so much to like (a lot) about the Big Boy that I forget about the coal feature.

 

Brent

Saw them running it at York.  Its like others say.... Cool concept by no big deal in real life...

other than it leaves with a full load and when it comes back around on a big layout the coal would be lower if you notice it.

 

I usually keep my eyes on the road instead of staring at my gas gauge going down?

While I don't watch the coal load depletion too much, except to see that it's working, the big fans of it are the non-train observers that show up. It's a big hit to them. So I can run it a bit, stop and refill (top off the water too), blow that magnificent whistle a few times and move out again.

 

I love putting the loco in "demo" mode, and let the thing ding the bell, talk at ya, blow that whistle, and move on out while I just turn the wheel. I actually run all my Legacy engines like that. Noisy but I love it. I also would love to know where "Beans" is, but I'll find out soon enough.

 

This is my first BB, since I've only been back into the hobby a few years, it's my first big articulated steamer (not counting my baby K Line 1/58 Challenger, that while very nice doesn't even begin to compare) and it's a Vision Line to boot.

 

Yes, it's darned expensive. Is that coal load worth what some guys call an extra grand? Dunno, it's all new to me, and now I'm spoiled to it. Do I "need it?" No, of course not. But it comes with it, and all the other features are what I concentrate on, so it's just more gravy on top, and gravy is good!

 

And I'm completed addicted to the sound from this engine. Nothing else I've heard so far compares. So far. I'm still quite new at this.

 

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