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I have had my BB (6-11437) put away in its factory box since April 2015; ran great out of the box with no problems back then.   Yesterday, I decided to get it on a test track and fire it up.  
BUT, thought it would be a good idea to give it a lube job before running it.  Turned it upside down into my foam cradle.  
Removed the gear cover on the rear drive unit; dabbed some Red and Tacky onto the drive gear which had no grease on it; tried rotating the wheels to get at its other half but wheels would not turn; replaced the gear cover.
Removed the gear cover on the front unit; dabbed some Red and Tacky onto the drive gear which had no grease on it; tried rotating the wheels to get at its other half and the wheels rotated freely so I dabbed some grease onto the other half; replaced the gear cover.
Added 5 drops of Lionel fluid to each of the smoke units.
Decided to try conventional with no CAB2 Remote and no Base powered on.   Placed the loco and tender onto a test track.  Made sure switch was set to RUN: turned on all smoke units and Odessey.  Connected ZWL to track and powered up.  All lights came on, rail sounds came on, cab light constant, whistle worked, bell worked, no smoke.  Pushed direction lever, no movement; cut power then power up, tried again, same result.  Powered up and connected CAB2 and base but no response from loco.  Tried RESET per manual instructions, got no change.  Tried MartyF's reset procedure, no change. I can push the loco manually and it moves smoothly with no binding.
Am wondering if greasing the front driver and rotating its wheel may have messed up something.
Any ideas??  Searched BB topics but didn't find anything like this.

Thanks for any help.

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On all the scale Lionel articulated steam I've seen there is one motor and the two sets of drivers are connected by a shaft. Since you say one set would not move and the other rotated freely I wonder if somehow you have gotten that to fall out and jam.

IIRC all the Legacy steam has back drivable gears, I see you can push it on the track and both sets of drivers rotate. Can you lift one end off the rails while moving it and see if both sets of drivers rotate?

Last edited by BobbyD
BobbyD posted:

On all the scale Lionel articulated steam I've seen there is one motor and the two sets of drivers are connected by a shaft. Since you say one set would not move and the other rotated freely I wonder if somehow you have gotten that to fall out and jam.

IIRC all the Legacy steam has back drivable gears, can you push it on the track and both sets of drivers rotate?

Thanks Bob,

With the loco and tender on the track, I am able to move it back and forth manually and smoothly with no binding.  Am wondering if there is some synchronization between front and rear drive units that I messed up by rotating the wheels on the front driver.

Sparky74 posted:

Ok this sounds crazy and not meant in a bad way, but did you make sure the train brake slider is all the way up to the minus sign?   I know it's a silly suggestion but I rarely use mine and had a Legacy locomotive do everything except move one evening and that was what I overlooked.

Thanks Sparky; been there done that with my Legacy locos.  When I tried the CAB2 remote after conventional failed, I made sure the train brake was all the way up.

RickM46 posted:

Thanks Bob,

With the loco and tender on the track, I am able to move it back and forth manually and smoothly with no binding.  Am wondering if there is some synchronization between front and rear drive units that I messed up by rotating the wheels on the front driver.

When to change screens and posted early! Always possible though I find it odd the wheels wouldn't rotate upside down unless something is jammed. Did the cab light flash the smoke unit signal even?

Last edited by BobbyD

Thanks Bob,  I went ahead and cleaned all the wheels (except tires) and contact rollers with isopropyl 91 and took the gear cap off the front drive and made the wheel positions identical to the rear drive wheels because with the wheel cap off, I can easily spin the front drive wheels. You are right, there is one drive connection between front and rear drive wheels.  When both gear caps are screwed down, turning the rear drive wheels also turns the front drive wheels and vice versa.  Still no movement in conventional except now there is no bell, no whistle, and still no smoke.

5 drops of fluid is not enough.  If it's been sitting that long, you need at least 20 per unit.

But as for what it's doing, sounds just like what mine did.  It was a bad board that I had to get replaced.  The board was $120, and exchange required from Lionel.

BTW: Not all Legacy steam locomotives have back drivable gears.  The 0-6-0 doesn't for sure.  I might have a couple others as well (0-8-0, 4-6-0, 2-truck Shay, Heisler), but I don't remember off of the top of my head for sure.

If I were a betting man I’d say your DCDS is ahot, pretty common on first gen Legacy Big Boys. I assume everything else works? Cab light, smoke on/off all sounds, rear coupler, backup light, etc.? You can probably program an ID number with no issues too, it just won’t move. The DCDS-J motor driver is the issue. It needs replaced.

If you need someone to repair it, shoot me an email at mreagan@twtrainworx.com, I can help you out!

Your Big Boy is not a Vision Line BB, so no back drive ability on that model.

Thanks, Mike

Mikado posted:

If I were a betting man I’d say your DCDS is ahot, pretty common on first gen Legacy Big Boys. I assume everything else works? Cab light, smoke on/off all sounds, rear coupler, backup light, etc.? You can probably program an ID number with no issues too, it just won’t move. The DCDS-J motor driver is the issue. It needs replaced.

If you need someone to repair it, shoot me an email at mreagan@twtrainworx.com, I can help you out!

Your Big Boy is not a Vision Line BB, so no back drive ability on that model.

Thanks, Mike

Thanks Mike, I will send you an email.

RickM46 posted:
BobbyD posted:

On all the scale Lionel articulated steam I've seen there is one motor and the two sets of drivers are connected by a shaft. Since you say one set would not move and the other rotated freely I wonder if somehow you have gotten that to fall out and jam.

IIRC all the Legacy steam has back drivable gears, can you push it on the track and both sets of drivers rotate?

Thanks Bob,

With the loco and tender on the track, I am able to move it back and forth manually and smoothly with no binding.  Am wondering if there is some synchronization between front and rear drive units that I messed up by rotating the wheels on the front driver.

Mikado posted:

 

If you need someone to repair it, shoot me an email at mreagan@twtrainworx.com, I can help you out!

Your Big Boy is not a Vision Line BB, so no back drive ability on that model.

Thanks, Mike

I'm confused Mike. He says he can roll it back and forth, you say it doesn't have back drivable gears. Isn't 6-11437 a Vision Line Big Boy?

RickM46 posted:

After communication with Mike, I have decided to send the BB to Mike Reagan.  Sinclair, you hit the nail on the head with a board issue; it narrows down to 2 boards.  Will give the forum a status after the repair.  I am contemplating having Mike service the smoke units while he has it.

 Think of the shipping and the labor. If they aren't up to par, do it now. Of course, I'd see what he thought about it.

Engineer-Joe posted:
RickM46 posted:

After communication with Mike, I have decided to send the BB to Mike Reagan.  Sinclair, you hit the nail on the head with a board issue; it narrows down to 2 boards.  Will give the forum a status after the repair.  I am contemplating having Mike service the smoke units while he has it.

 Think of the shipping and the labor. If they aren't up to par, do it now. Of course, I'd see what he thought about it.

Thanks Joe, I thought about shipping and repair costs.  Also saw on the Bay where at times, Vision Line Lionel Big Boys used were are going for around $2500; new and sealed in the box from $3500-$4000.  That and since I like this loco makes me want to get it fixed by somebody who knows what they are doing - aka Mike.  I am mechanically inclined but don't know how to test circuit boards on the BB - Mike does.

Am getting the BB ready for shipping to Mike and have noticed that there are many wire handrails.  There are ones at the top on both sides that run the length of the engine; then, for the first time I noticed there are others running below the catwalk on both sides.  I read on a forum thread that some serve as an antenna for signals from the Cab2 remote. 

Anyone know which ones are the antenna???

Last edited by RickM46

Good news: Mike Reagan fixed all the problems with the Big Boy!  He knows the Big Boy.
Keep in mind that I am the destructor of smoke units and now the RCMC board - either I starve them of drown them.
After Mikes repair, all the smoke units smoke like they have never before; voluminous.
Here are his findings - great feedback on what he found and fixed; 2 different emails.  Mike takes the time to explain his work.  Long read but much info.

Email 1:
"Rick,
Big Boy is finished. Wow, what a lot of work! The main stack smoke unit (DSMK unit) had 1 bad element and 1 bad fan motor. The blowdown smoke had a bad element and a bad fan motor. The RCMC also gave up the ghost, which is why it refused to run. Replaced the RCMC board, repacked all 3 smoke units (the main stack unit is actually two units, inside one bowl). The main stack funnel was severely melted at the base, where the vapor enters the funnel. Drilled both holes out so smoke blows out of stack nicely. The blow down works great (when you know how to use it*), whistle smoke is great as well.
 
*Blowdown smoke; when you want blowdown smoke press AUX1 then 6, let off 6, give the smoke unit 15-20 seconds to produce smoke inside the bowl, then lay on 6 and you will get copious amounts of smoke out of each side of the cab.  
 
I would caution you to keep all the smoke units full of smoke fluid. All of the batting I removed had the elements stuck to them, a sure sign of not enough smoke fluid! I used the Lionel Premium fluid to fill everything up and it smokes wonderfully!

Email 2:
Rick,
I wouldn’t say that starving the smoke units caused the damage. The blow down unit fan motor was encrusted with smoke fluid residue, if anything it was too much smoke fluid in that unit. Keep in mind the blowdown smoke unit only uses the fluid when you activate the feature, the element turns off after 1 minute of not being activated (so as to not burn the unit out when there is no air flow in the chamber). There was an excessive amount of heat evidence in the main stack chambers, so the smoke unit ran for a long time with what I believe was in a starved state. The excessive smoke fluid on the blowdown fan motor most likely lead to a short that traveled back to the RCMC, the same could very have happened to one of the main stack smoke motors as well. There were no scorched wires or melted solder, so its difficult to say for certain what caused the failure, I am merely speculating based on my experience.
 
No reason to replace the main stack funnel, it performs same as it did new, the new batting and elements (and you keeping a proper amount of fluid in the stacks, as well as being aware of the issue) should prevent the heat build up moving forward.
 
As for fluid, I would run the engine with the fluid that’s in there, when the smoke starts becoming anemic, that’s when its time to add fluid (now remember to blow down the stack if you do not see any smoke coming out and the units are on, when the smoke fluid runs low you will see smoke coming out of the stack, but it will be very weak, in terms of smoke production, but there will be smoke. When you see nothing coming out it is typically because the outlet hole is blocked (fluid creating a film in the outlet hole).

Don’t be afraid of it, just keep it in mind when running the train. Also, smoke fluid rarely dries up in the smoke units (providing your using Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid) when the train is in the box or on a shelf or sitting on a siding for a very long period of time."
 
As a side note: I think I drowned the blowdown unit and then the RCMC by inserting a straw into its fill hole and blowing hard into it after a fill; not a good idea.

Happy Camper,
RickM46



gunrunnerjohn posted:

Perhaps you should re-read his post.

Mikado posted:
..snip..

Your Big Boy is not a Vision Line BB, so no back drive ability on that model.

What part of that didn't you understand?

His post clearly states that Vision Line does have the ability and non Vision line does not.. yours being Vision Line should have back drivable gears.. 

Now what is it you think I don't understand???

Yep, mine is a Vision Line with back drivable gears; you can easily move it in either direction manually and it rolls very smoothly; don't know if that is a good thing for the motor, drive shafts, or gears.

In addition, when you  are greasing the metal drive gears in both drivers, you can rotate the wheels manually to get at all of the gear.

Last edited by RickM46

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