What type of 'enhanced features' on recent engines are really not so prototypical?

Radio chatter between the crew and dispatch on steam engines is one thing definitely not prototypical.

 

 

Yes, I know that in LIMITED circumstances some steam engines were radio-equipped but that was so far from the norm as it hardly warrants being the rule rather than the exception.

 

I love my Lionel scale Cab Forward.  But I avoid the cab chatter like the plague.  Unfortunately you can't avoid it with the shut down sequence in command mode.  So when I shut it down, I cut the track power so you just hear the compressors and the blowdown.  That way I don't have to hear that awful "It's quittin' time Dispatch, we're calling it a day."  Hokey.  At least with my MTH DCS engines I can disable the cab chatter altogether.

 

As for the slow speed control, obviously your mileage differs.  Where I live, there are lots of mountainous terrain, and speeds are typically restricted in some areas to only 20 MPH or so, and there most certainly isn't any percieved "rush" where the engineers are gunning their locomotives to get from point A to B.  I see them crawling slowly (like when creating an actual train).   Now with passenger trains (especially commuter with a lot of stops along their routes) I'll agree with you somewhat.

Yeah, crew chatter is totally unnecessary. I don't spend all that much time watching trains go by but when they do, you can't hear them say a darn thing.

 

Also, while I'm not certain about this, I don't think there is a third rail running down the middle of the tracks. So the whole "I gotta be prototypical" thing is kind of funny to me. I don't mean to disparage those who are into that. I see that it could be interesting doing switching operations or having a waybill system. For me, being prototypical is way too much work.

I find crew talk to be annoying and unnecessary. Cruise is nice to have but also unnecessary.

The swinging bell feature may or may not be prototypical depending on the locomotive. A lot of steamers had bell actuators that moved the clapper rather than the bell body. 

 

And I'm with John 100% on cab chatter, particularly with steam engines. It's especially annoying with Lionel passenger engines, because the locomotive and the StationSounds diner will talk at the same time. There's said to be a way to fix that with a command sequence in Legacy, but with plain TMCC you're SOL. 

Are you saying crew talk is not prototypical without a certain blue collar flavor to it?  I have a few personal favorites I could recommend.  I would love to hear your take on that.

Another that comes to mind is when a 'lashup' (love that non-protypical term) reverses, the headlight goes to the rear unit.  Probably not realistic, but a feature that is cool to have.  

Not to mention that the term "dispatch" is pretty much for taxi cab companies! In all my years of being out on the railroad, I can honestly say that I NEVER heard anybody talking to "dispatch". They do however call the Dispatcher! And when finished, you'll hear, "Dispatcher out.".

 

It ain't "dispatch"!

Well, sorry but when any number of diesels, regardless of EMD or GE or mixed, are MUed, each individual unit has its head MU control rotary switch set for: "Lead unit, with  long hood trail", "Intermediate unit", and "Trailing Unit with short hood trail". Thus when the Engineer turns on the "REAR HDLT" on his control stand, the very last unit in the consist TURNS ITS HEADLIGHT ON! 

Hmmmm, how to put this.

I have several MTH Steam engines with Crew talk/Cab Chatter.

None of them have radio chatter. And none of them chatter if the train is in motion.

One has a sequence with a flag stop. The engineer climbs out, gravel crunches as he walks to an impressively convenient phone, and calls the dispatch. They converse, then he crunches back to the train and talks to the fireman. No Radio, I'm good with that.

The ones with passenger sounds have sounds that would be on the PA at the station. Odd, but the station has no sounds and can you really tell it's the train not the station announcer? It is a different voice than the conductor If I recall correctly. (I rarely run passenger stuff)

 

And while engines might slow die to load on a hill, I like cruise so I can chase 2 trains around on my single main if I want.

I really wish the Boosted Chuffing would kick in on a hill or accel better.

Hot Water, I know you're really not sorry.  That is good to know.  I've got a bit to learn and thanks for sharing.  That is the kind of stuff I'm interested in right now.  Long live the lashup with prototypical reversing headlights.  I have other questions with regards to real life operations, but in another post maybe.   

I think the speed control allows for the model to mimic the prototypes mass and weight better during slower movements.

 

You don't see real trains suddenly lurch ahead or slam to a stop taking all of the slack out of the train instantaniously.

 

A real train doesn't appear to dramatically speed up or slow down on hill or curves, I don't want my model to either.

 

The electrocoupler is probably the least realistic feature, but I like that too!

 

What type of 'enhanced features' on recent engines are really not so prototypical?

 

Rubber traction tires

As long as you keep using that "lash up" term, you might not get as many answers as you would like from either myself nor the Webmaster.

Well, if you use switchers as switchers, you certainly do NOT want cruise control. This

is especially true of steamers, which were extremely quick, direct-drive (by definition,

pretty much) machines. Early real diesel switchers were slow to load and pretty sluggish,

especially compared to the steamers that they just replaced. I have read accounts by

the crewmen of the day in which they complained about how the new diesels made

"kicking cars" harder. They sure were more pleasant to ride in, though.

 

The old TA EOB was horrible, inaccurate and maddening. I have an Atlas RS-1 with

EOB, and a K-line Shay with K-line cruise, both of which I use as switchers, and the "cruises" stay turned off. The locos actually will respond more prototypically now - no cruise.

 

Road locos are nice with the cruise, though real trains speed up and slow down with terrain, curves and conditions, so the cruise is really unrealistic...except that on a

model layout, the speed changes that occur without cruise are so frequent and

extreme, that they actually look less realistic than a constant speed.

I actually -added- K-line cruise to my K-line J1 NYC Hudson.

 

But, the swinging whistles and smoking bells I can - and do - do without.

 

And cab chatter is just...well, most of my locos that have it have never uttered a word.

Whistle steam, it would only blow condensation if the temp. Was below freezing, but I still like it.

 

I also like cruise, the best feature since motors. 

Not to mention that the term "dispatch" is pretty much for taxi cab companies!

As well as mail after processing. Dispatching Mail for Scranton, Allentown, Bethlehem, & Easton.

Are you kidding me? Heres 765 in the middle of July,steam pouring out everywhere, even the whistle!

 

Lionel's "Gyralite" on their Southern Pacific SD40T-2.

 

While it's prototypical in that Southern Pacific did in fact use the single Gyralite on the majority of their diesels up until around the late 1980s, Lionel's model uses a white light and it always flashes in idle/forward.  In reality, the light should be red, and the light was only activated in emergency braking applications (sometimes they remained "on" as sometimes it was forgotten to shut them off after the "emergency" occurred).  So Lionel not only got the color of the lens wrong they also didn't make a user-selectable on/off function for it.

 

And also using it on a paint scheme reflecting the era when they were already removed from the prototype (Rio Grande merger "speed lettering).

Me too, but smoking whistles and swinging bells are cool.

 

I was about to post a similar video for the same reason.  I've been around steam locomotives on 90+ degree days and the steam is definitely visible.  In dry climates possibly, but it definitely does not have to be below freezing to see it.

Crew chatter makes no sence to me. You can't hear the crew as a train goes by or even at a stop. All you hear is the engine. So why would you hear it on your layout unless your in the cab. I for one wouldn't fit. Don

Guys, A LOT depends on where the whistle is getting its steam from, i.e. if the whistle is supplied with saturated steam (like MKP 765), you will see the vapor MUCH more readily in almost ANY weather conditions . However, if the whistle is supplied with superheated steam, which is MUCH drier & hotter steam, the steam exhausted from the whistle not so visible, unless it is pretty cool outside, as a general rule.

Thanks for posting that Hot Water.  I hadn't even thought about superheated steam.  The locomotives I've grown up around are definitely not superheated

Crew Chatter - Didn't mind it at all in the early days when it was just some gruff unintelligible muttering. In fact it was always one of those one-time "Neato!" things when demonstrating the layout to guests. Now there's whole scripts programmed in there and they are all just so dreadfully cheesy.

 

Cruise Control - Realistic slow start ups were never a big deal or me, since I prefer to just get my trains up and running and then sit back and watch. However, it definitely comes in handy for keeping the speed constant on slightly uneven portions of my layout and helps when you're actually trying to use the train itself to couple on to things safely, as opposed to accidentally giving it too much juice and you start ramming things.

 

Other Non-Prototypical Features - There's two I can remember off the top of my head. First is the steam-chest smoke gimmick in older Lionel steamers. It's been mentioned a lot that if this were to happen on actual steam locomotives, it would be a sign of something going very wrong. The other is the always on cab light in diesels, which would have been shut off when running so the crew could see! Both of these features have been dropped in recent years.

I've built modules for a couple of my locomotives to control cab lights and Rule 17 lighting.  When the motor is running, the cab lights are off and the headlights are bright, reverse that for when I sense no voltage on the motor.

Thanks Hot Water - A 'lashup' is a made up term.  An example of what I'm saying.  I use lashup because that is what Lionel calls it.  And they will always be toy trains, no matter what bells and whistles they attach to them. Hopefully MUed in a Consist none the less... 

Folks who have been in the hobby a long time will be familiar with the name J. David Ingles of Kalmbach Publishing. I believe his tenure with Trains Magazine started way back in the very early 70s. His is the name I've most often heard associated with the origination of the term "lashup."

 

As far as slow speed capability is concerned, it's very useful for replicating prototypically accurate start ups. Keep in mind looking down at the ground is sometimes the only way the Engineer can tell if his train is moving yet. It doesn't get much slower than that.

 

Bob 

 

Bob

Not so prototypical for me are:  the Crew talk, smoking cylinders and whistle,(because it is obviously not steam but smoke, moving bells and cab lights that are too bright, sounds out of the first A unit only instead of all 3 units in an ABA set. Smoke out of the A units only in an ABA set. Thick chrome tires on many steam locomotives.

The electrocoupler is probably the least realistic feature, but I like that too!

 

True - but until we get a robot 0-scale brakeman to open the couplers, it's the best we can do.

 

Thick chrome tires on many steam locomotives.

Excellent point. I've been wondering for a long time why 3rd Rail, and a lot of 2-rail builders, use plated wheels instead of blackened. This includes not only drivers, but the wheels on tenders and rolling stock. 

OK, I'm O for Two on my Two points.  Diesels do run slow and a 'lashup' switches lights to the rear unit when reversing.  You guys are a tough crowd.  That works for me.  Cheers.   

If you really like prototypical realism, then you really should watch this video. 

 

Electrocouplers might have been handy. 

MTH Premier steam locomotive models come with blackened drivers, and have for many, many, years now. With Sunset/3rd Rail it seems to be hit or miss.

 

However, it really isn't much of a problem to simply paint the wheels and driver tires anyway. I have painted every single one of my steam models, prior to going out for weathering. I have used Scalecoat Loco black paint for more than 40 years, from when I was modeling in HO.

The other day I was watching some DVD about SP4449 up in the great Northwest..It was all aerial shots taken from a helicopter that also had a radio scanner going so we could hear the train crew talking...Reminded me of my MTH engines 

Actually the plated wheels would be preferable if you think about it.  The plated finish gives the actual wheel tread surface the shiny appearance they should have since they're always being "polished" as the wheels roll on the tracks.  You don't get that same prototypical look with regular metal wheels.

 

Also in my own experience, the plated wheels seem to accumulate less "gunk" from  the track than regular metal wheels.

 

A little paint (weathered or steel colored) on the wheel faces will take care of the rest of the exposed plating.

As others have stated above...crew talk...especially in steam engines. While just a guess I'm sure near the tail-end of the steam era (late 40s/early 50s) some railroads installed radios in their steam units...but it just does not seem prototypical. But as Eric Siegel mentions with regards to engine features in his fantastic online reviews...if you don't like it, don't use it. Wise advice that I follow.  -Len

My grandson loves the crew talk, it's the first thing he wants to hear on a new engine.  You have to remember that the rivet counters are not the only people that enjoy trains.   If you take what many perceive to be "fun" features out of the products, there'll come a day in the not too distant future where there are no products.

 

 Or how about non-fixed pilots     I do like the cruise feature on my MTH engine.  One thing that I never liked about my Dad's postwar Lionel stuff was the sudden start and stopping action.  I agree - the crew dialoge is pretty much worthless.

Crew talk in itself is fine, but at the very least in the case of steam engines, make it a little more realistic, for example make it where the crew talk represents actual dialogue between the crew on the locomotives (engineer, fireman, brakeman), not the weird and fictionalized radio chatter between the crew and the control tower.

 

I'm sure if it were done that way your grandson will still like the crew talk. 

You're right John, I'd have no issue at all if they made it more realistic, as long as they don't make it R rated like the real talk probably is at times.