Why does the American public have a lack of interest for US Railroad history...unlike other countries...

Why does the American public have a lack of interest for US Railroad history...unlike other countries...

I don't think it's accurate to make sweeping generalizations like that.

I think its lack of appreciation of our country's history in general.  Not just railroad specific.   I think in general railroading has a nice following personally,  however I do live in a railroad town.  I mean sure.  I'm biased I wish there was someway we could look more at railroad history in general teaching.   But I'm not sure I would consider the 611 trips national news.   Our country has plenty of history and railroading is a big part of it.  But it's like once they drove the golden spike and took the photo it was old news.

I thought my debt card with chessie on it was cool.   That 10 dollar bill is awesome.  Thanks for sharing.

     Perhaps a tribal memory of having been "railroaded"

Unlike Europe and other countries, the US has a severe lack of access and passenger routes, not to mention the cost and schedules. To go from here to San Diego only costs $260, but takes 13 hours plus a bus ride to Tucson and a transfer in LA. Why would I want to do that though when I can drive in less than 6 hours and use less that 10 gallons of gas in our Prius? And not have to rent a car

If I can't readily jump on a train to go somewhere, why would I have but a passing interest in the history of the railroads? You can go almost anywhere in Europe on a train. We abandoned the trains when the interstate system was built and they've all but abandoned us since. And once you get past the Rockefellers, Carnegies, etc., there's really not all the much exciting about railroad history, unless you like boardroom shenanigans and government mismanagement.

I agree with Dave.  The other thought I had was that we are too wrapped up in sports and the entertainment world, in this country.  Not to mention politics every four years.  Money can't be made from railroad related news.....Need I say more ? 

Some good points.  Maybe not good to make a general statement but I bet my assumption is close.  I provided some evidence.  Our country seems really interested in spectator events (sports) and digital media. All things that you cant hold in your hand and as soon as they end..its over.  

A side note...mentioned that the public abandoned trains to use the interstates.  At least as a whole, rail ridership has grown significantly since the sixties.  Counting commuter as well.  Just look at the volumes of users in places like Boston South Station or Penn Station.    Younger generations these days seem to want to ride trains when it makes sense...or want the option to ride a train...moreso than baby boomers.  The Amtraks in the northeast are full of younger aged people who use them often rather than driving.

Good Day Mike,

I totally disagree with you general assumption of American Railroads history and appreciation.  The Bradford Exchange, the 611 Project and what is on printed on money is not a very good gauge. 

Regards,

Swafford  

Takes a little bit of brains to appreciate trains......nuff said !

The US, as a whole, lags in appreciating our history.  It is poorly taught in our schools and lags in funding. Most historical sites struggle financially and in public appreciation. Vandalism at our historical sites like Gettysburg is a big problem. Why ??

I'm not sure why you felt the need to single out Americans with your post.  Yes, the Brits care very much about their rail history, but I think that ardent passion might be unique to the British versus something that is generally lacking in Americans -- or any other society for that matter.

I have lived in France and Spain (twice) and I can assure you that neither could care less about their rail history; They just want to know that the train they're boarding is clean, comfortable, reasonably priced, and will get them to their destination on time.  The Spaniards, who lately have an excellent regional rail system, would love to forget the joke that was their rail system under the Franco dictatorship.  

I'm also not aware of any particular passion for rail history among the Swedes, the Norwegians, the Finnish, the Dutch, the Vietnamese, Indians, Khazakstanians, Cambodians, and many others.  Why you're singling out Americans as being indifferent to their rail history is a little baffling.

My point is that Americans are pretty much like the rest of the world in this regard.  You might make a case that you wish we were more like the Brits, but there's no need to say Americans have "no appreciation".

Steven J. Serenska

I can't say that Americans are not interested in railroads or railroad history. On the many tourist lines that we have rode upon during summer most were packed. Nearly all of them ran on and abandoned historical routes. On the railroad museums we visited, those were crowded as well. On the California Zephyr and Cardinal trains that we rode last year to Denver both trains were completely sold out.  Trains are alive and well but I will agree that most of the people are not so interested in any American history.

think about the concepts the country was founded on. the new world, new way of life, pioneering expansion, pioneering innovation, et al. this country has a long history of forgetting it's past, not just in railroading but in most things. it was not until the 20th Century when appreciating or saving our history became relevant.

jim pastorius posted:

The US, as a whole, lags in appreciating our history.  It is poorly taught in our schools and lags in funding. Most historical sites struggle financially and in public appreciation. Vandalism at our historical sites like Gettysburg is a big problem. Why ??

When we travelled to Europe, we found that Europeans know more about our history than most of us !!

Hmmmm.....if nobody in the U.S.  has any interest in railroad history, who is buying all those expensive books on the subject in train shows and elsewhere (true, Strasburg closed its upstairs, and, now, the Lancaster shopping mall, store with lots of railroad books)?  I would buy more, if cheaper, ...there seem to be a lot written on obscure and vanished railroads of which I was not otherwise aware.  (not just the money is boring....the postage stamps are, too...I have a lot of national park photos and others, including railroads such as the Silverton and the Cumbres, that would make more interesting stamps.   If you look at the world of what people pay for antiques...trains!, cars, guns, furniture, whatever, seems like a lot are willing to pay for history.         

colorado hirailer posted:

Hmmmm.....if nobody in the U.S.  has any interest in railroad history, who is buying all those expensive books on the subject in train shows and elsewhere (true, Strasburg closed its upstairs, and, now, the Lancaster shopping mall, store with lots of railroad books)?  I would buy more, if cheaper, ...there seem to be a lot written on obscure and vanished railroads of which I was not otherwise aware.  (not just the money is boring....the postage stamps are, too...I have a lot of national park photos and others, including railroads such as the Silverton and the Cumbres, that would make more interesting stamps.   If you look at the world of what people pay for antiques...trains!, cars, guns, furniture, whatever, seems like a lot are willing to pay for history.         

So,,,,, your saying that people who purchase railroad books at train shows are representative of the ENTIRE population of the United States of America??????     Just my opinion but     NO!!!!

Is American History and/or World History even taught in public schools any longer? 

The teaching of history, civics, art, music is being systematically removed from the curriculum of US schools.

If history is "taught" in schools today, you can be sure it is very politically correct.

Has been for a long time.  

At the last California State Railroad Museum "Railfair" in 1999, it was painfully obvious to me, that neither the parents (under 40) nor the children, had much of an understanding about what the American Freedom Train tour was all about for the celebration of the nation's bicentennial (1975 thru 1976). Southern Pacific 4449 has been a key part of the three "Railfair" events at CSRM (1981, 1991, & 1999), and it was amazing to witness the "dumbing down" of the visiting public over that 18 year period, when it came to knowledge of what the 4th of July is all about, and what the Revolutionary War was all about.

All vary sad, in my opinion.

I am thoroughly convinced the majority of the U.S. population has a lack of interest in any History knowledge or appreciation.

I know because every time I read a plaque on a historical location my wife and kids will role their eyes and say "Dad REALLY!?!"

I planned a vacation this year to visit Gettysburg, and almost got a plate of food dumped on my head...

Hot Water posted:

At the last California State Railroad Museum "Railfair" in 1999, it was painfully obvious to me, that neither the parents (under 40) nor the children, had much of an understanding about what the American Freedom Train tour was all about for the celebration of the nation's bicentennial (1975 thru 1976). Southern Pacific 4449 has been a key part of the three "Railfair" events at CSRM (1981, 1991, & 1999), and it was amazing to witness the "dumbing down" of the visiting public over that 18 year period, when it came to knowledge of what the 4th of July is all about, and what the Revolutionary War was all about.

All vary sad, in my opinion.

Definitely. What's even more sad is that down here, as a high schooler, I am in essence the local historian, and have landed in trouble before for correcting teachers on THEIR history, from both the state universities and the local high schools (research led them to see I had it right, even if it wasn't the "politically correct" answer). Last few railroading museums I was in, I knew more about what was on display than the guides, and at local history museums, often know more about the pieces on display than the curators. It's not only sad, but wrong that we have let our world degrade into such a state.

I just noticed the Canadian $ 10 with the Via engine a couple of weeks ago... Must be something new but  I like it.  However that's about all I like about it compared to US value and also it's   so thin and sticks together. You really have to be careful receiving and dishing it out.

I have been interested in history and since that time A LOT of history has been made=some good, some not but as a general rule as time has passed people are more interested in the glitz and glamor of things. I have been a military re-enacter  since 1975 and we would watch a family pay good money at a historical site and wonder why they wasted their time and money. No real interest at all.  Go to Gettysburg-it is awesome. They have cut the woods back to the original  and have removed some more modern buildings etc. Michigan played a big part in the battle especially the cavalry.   Railroad history is small in the over all scheme of things. Too bad.

The history of our school system itself might provide an answer.  We went from small schools to educational factories.  Guess where we got that idea from.  1920's Germany!   

With Kuhn University and computers, maybe the who educational system in this county needs to be scrapped out, and rebuilt from scratch.

Growing up and living in Baltimore I can assure you rail history is alive and well here.

.    

Its as if American's have no appreciation of history or technological marvels.  

 

That $10 will get you about $7 US at today's rates. Wait till the oil price goes up, and you might get $ for $ on it!

Seriously though, the appreciation of history is a niche interest in almost any country, I think.

Except for maybe the NE corridor, American passenger rail access has long since conceded to the automobile. As a result, the appreciation of railroad history now seems to be the pop-culture mentality of walking down a deserted railroad track and taking photos. (that is until a few thousand tons of metal shows up and scares the %$#@ out of someone)

The railroads are now only a large noisy backdrop to many, not the inter-woven piece of culture seen in the local mixed train; that's long gone. Railroads are becoming as culturally invisible as maritime shipping. Both hold the world together, but for the most part are ignored by the masses. (Unless there's a major environmental incident, of course.)

The history that is being taught in schools is being rewritten !   To me, history should be taught as it actually happened, not be changed to be politically correct for the present time.  No wonder younger people have no clue as to why this country even exists.  

One particular incident sticks in my mind.  It happened while my kids were still in the public school system.  Mark Twain's, Huckleberry Finn was being taken out of the school library and the superintendent at the time, let it happen.  Sure, passages in the book may be offensive to some, but so are images of the Holocaust.  Are we to take that terrible part of history out of our school curriculum ?  

Something to think about: Amtrak on the back of a twenty, we did it back in 1914.

As someone who has been in the professional history field (museums, not schools) for over 30 years, I can agree with what others have said about US History. Thanks to the way the schools with end of grade testing (like here in North Carolina) they teach to the test, not general history. If railroad history does not fall within the curriculum, then it has to be bypassed. They only take 3-4 days tops to cover WWII! Kids today think anything over 15-20 years ago is ancient history, and it takes more than a 2-3 hour visit to a museum or tourist railroad to overcome that mentality.

I also think this is a trend of the millennials, from some of the research I have seen. If they ride a tourist train, for example, they enjoy the experience, but then it is a one and done philosophy. They may not be interested in researching all the history of the railroad, just want to have a good time. This, unfortunately, is the future of museums and historical sites.

The best way I can think to spur interest would be at the railroad museums. Seeing 611 in action is nice, but once she rolls by, the experience is over. Museums and other similar attractions can give kids a reason to come back, either through hands-on activities, youth volunteer programs and/or someone willing to answer all their questions. That is what happened to me when I was in high school, and it helped lead me to where I am today.

Dan P:    read recently that the State of Texas school system is installing history books that describe American slaves as "happy", because they had free housing, meals, and secure lifetime employment ! And, of course, the fringe benefit of regular whippings.

Guess what passes for history nowadays is the continuous stream of AOL postings, such as "You would be shocked to see what Julia Roberts used to look like".   Unfortunately, there is no measurement in engineering or science which can capture how little I care about what Julia Roberts used to look like.

I agree with J DADDY that in general most Americans care less about history in general.  Those of us on this site are not so minded as we have an interest.  But just think about your friends, neighbors, work associates and relatives who do not have hobbies or interests or activities that involve some form history.  

For that matter how many Americans really care about current events in this country or around the world?   For most they could care less unless it directly impacts their daily life in some fashion.  I work with lots of young people and for the most part they couldn't point out on a map where Syria is vs. Saudi Arabia.  And yet these places are in the news nearly every day.   It's a real shame. 

With respect to this topic, most Americans have little to zero interaction with the railroads today in their daily lives.  At best the vast majority are "inconvenienced" when they have to wait at a rail crossing for a few minutes.  That encompasses their entire interaction with railroads.  

As its been pointed out, America has had and will continue to have a love affair with the automobile.   Many of you here on this forum have multiple vehicles, some of which may be collectibles, (myself included).  The automobile brings with it the ability to travel nearly anywhere at anytime without worry about schedules, and availability of routes.  It sets our souls free.   How can a passenger train compete with that?

We must be thankful that what few of us have an interest in railroading / history keep it alive and we hope that we can pass that interest onto the next generation. 

All good reasons. I think it's because Americans are always in a hurry trains are too slow for the average person. I noticed that when I was asking directions to just go for a drive. Always the shortest route or heating things  in a microwave because the stove is too slow. We even eat too fast. Nobody takes time to look at the world. Europeans take time to relax and and enjoy things and riding trains is the best way to do that.

Perhaps not related, but an observation I made the other day while firing up one of our cold locomotives.  I was warming it up right outside our roundhouse while a few groups of school kids were in and out during their visit to the museum for a field trip.  We're finishing up a particularly smoky load of coal, and it had just begun to light on the grates and did what it always does, produced a large cloud of smoke.  I faintly heard one of the kids say something in disgust about how bad it was and how it was polluting so much (keep in mind, this is probably the oldest regularly operating steam locomotive in the U.S. having been built in 1873, so it's very historically significant).  Polluting yes, but I'm not sure any of them were even remotely interested in the history of the locomotive or anything else in that area in general.  It's definitely interesting in comparing the number of people that come up and ask interested questions while I work, vs. those that maybe ride the train during their visit, but could care less about what was pulling it.

Because people are more concerned about the Kardashians, sports and transgender bathrooms...

I am a member of the Brigade of the American Revolution and recent  news magazine had a short article in it about an almost 300 yr old house, inhabited, that was going to be destroyed for a new highway intersection. this happens all the time. I was at Jamestown, Va. with my son and his school teacher wife  and I watched them as they walked through the place and museum totally unimpressed.  I was not surprised.

Ace posted:

Why does the American public have a lack of interest for US Railroad history...unlike other countries...

I don't think it's accurate to make sweeping generalizations like that.

Just because you, and a few people you know, have an interest in US railroad history does not mean that EVERYONE does. You do yourself and others a great disservice thinking that way.

Pay closer attention the next time you are "geeking out" about trains in the presence of people outside this forum and/or your model railroad club. You'll see their eyes rolling into the backs of their heads, the looks on their faces saying, "Oh God, there he goes again."

The reality is that most people don't care. Trains are a nuisance to them. Trains delay them from getting where they want/need to go.

After reading all responses I have come to the conclusion that most people just don't care. 

I love history and architecture but so few people know our history or care it is pathetic.  

Mike W. posted:

 So why then do we hear nothing in the USA about 611 outside of train fan communities?  Why is it not a national even that such a magnificent piece of engineering and history is still being used?  Railroads were more important to the growth of the US than in any other country.    Its as if American's have no appreciation of history or technological marvels.  

Spectacular train wrecks make the national news, steam locomotives operating in a corner of the country do not.  A steam locomotive may make local news, but it simply isn't of interest to west coast's John Q. Public when a locomotive like 611 boils water 3000 miles away on the east coast.

As far as currency goes, for those that still use cash, they're more interested in the numbers in the corners than who or what is on the bill.

Rusty