Running Lionel Legacy Shay Problems on 031 - BRACKET INSTALLED AND NOW PULLING CARS ON 031! NEW Video posted

Are the couplers on these cars fixed to the truck or can they swing independently? Have you tried pulling an Atlas reefer or MTH caboose? They both have couplers that will swing independently regardless of the position of the truck itself.

I believe Paul has already tried altering the coupler on the car to allow negotiation of 031 curves.

Do you mean that he replaced the truck with one that has a coupler that moves independently?

If he has not perhaps if someone is having the same issue try pulling a MTH caboose or Atlas Reefer or any other freight car that has independent couplers.

I meant exactly what I said.  Paul will have to comment to your question. 

 

Jim,

   I tried mounting the truck on this 1/2 inch towards the end of the beam. besides looking strange with the coupler extending out the extra length it didn't correct the derailing problem. The Shay still pulled it off the track every time just as the car is reaching the start of the curve.The coupler on the engine has to be moved back 1/2 inch so the angle is greater then present.

 

Paul S.

TCA# 08-62324

MTH ASC Technician

 

The focus now is not on altering the log car.  The K-Line bracket allowing alternative mounting of the coupler on the Shay is currently being worked on. 

Paul,

 

After looking at the photos of the bracket from a different angle I don't think it needs to be as complicated a part. If you look at photo #6 from the top all you really need is a part that would be attached using the two screws holding on the rear steps. It would be much simpler to create that part than to reproduce the K-Line part.

 

It would be a flat piece of metal with two holes on either side that would correspond to the two screws holding on the steps. In the center would be a post just like on the K-Line part that where the electrocoupler would be mounted.

 

Is the post on the K-line part threaded inside? If so that could be accomplished as well.

I was not sure of the associated costs and obviously printers vary in capabilities and material requirements.  It is my understanding that the middle schools in my area have 3D printers in the Sci/Tech Ed. classes.  Students are encouraged to make use of these resources.  The also have access to a slick cad/cam program.  Pretty cool for grades 6 to 8.

I just got a Makerbot2 3D printer.   I could try to make the piece on that.   If it is strong enough - great, job done.  If not, it could be used to test if the piece fits appropriately, and then the same file can be sent to a commercial service to print it out of harder material (not very expensive once you know that the file is right).

 

I think I missed this in the thread, but would this same piece work on the K-line Shay?

Yes it will work on the K-Line Shay since it is from the original K-Line Shay.

It seems like you could accomplish the same thing with a 6-32 screw tapped into the casting for the step.

That's what I thought too, except for it is quite thinner on the top then bottom, you'd split through it.

I think a bracket that's functionally the same could be fabricated pretty simply, I have no idea why all the dips and doodles in that one!

The dips and doodles are so it fits flush with what is already there as far as other screws and clearances. Sort of has to be I guess since it was an add on as I understand it.

Paul,

 

Regards fabricating and the dips and doodles in the adapter.  Could a piece be frabricated and then use a small sleeve or washers to raise it up high enough to clear the screw heads and such that you mentioned?

 

Ed

I think a simple part exists. There are tenders or engines made by either MTH or Lionel that use a draw bar with more than one hole in it . It fits over a post with a bracket. Does anyone remember these??

There are many locomotives that have a drawbar with more than one hole, but we're talking about the rear coupler for the rolling stock here, probably less  variability there.  I wonder if a longer coupler would work?

Tried longer couplers, no luck. The bracket moves the coupler back to the correct point to allow the proper swing angle.  Longer couplers actually derailed the fastest.

I thought that might be the case, just thought I'd mention it in case it did help.

 

I still think I could cobble together a bracket that would move the coupler back.  Truthfully, from the pictures, I think I'd be tempted not to have it back as far as the K-Line bracket moves it.

Great thread guys!  I too am interested in a Shay and am glad I stumbled upon this thread.  Any update from Paul?

Okay I apologize it has taken me awhile to get this done, however I have had several health issues I have been dealing with so not up to par here, but getting there quickly.

 

I have mounted the bracket on my Legacy Shay and it works great! I first removed the rear step bracket and clamped the coupler bracket to it in position. Then I drilled two 3/32 holes in the correct location. I used 2 Stainless #4-40 3/8 inch screws to secure the bracket to the mounting location after re-attaching the steps to the locomotive.

 

 

 

 

This is how simple it is, 1 K-Line adapter bracket and 2 screws.

 

The Shay now pulls any type of rail car through 031 curves without a hitch, including the log cars.Here is a real crappy video taken with a key fob camera as I can't locate the FLIP camera this morning. Holding and pointing the Key Fob and the Legacy Remote was not easy.

 

 

 

Now as to getting the bracket re-produced. I am hitting a wall on getting anywhere. I have contacted several people about 3D re-production but no one has returned a call or email as of yet. Anyone that can contribute a company name, or person to contact about reproducing this please email me. My opinion is that everyone that bought a Lionel Legacy Shay should flood Lionel with requests that they make this bracket. If you have one and are attending York, there's a good spot to voice your desires that Lionel make the bracket for the Legacy Shays. They have the K-Line molds already. Heck Allan has a Legacy Shay, maybe a word from the Editor in Jerry's ear would help? It took less then 15 minutes to remove the coupler, extend the wires for the coupler, drill the holes and mount it back.

 

SHAME on you Lionel that you don't want to do this.

Paul did you try Lionel's part's buddy North Lima Trainworks http://www.nltrainworks.com to see if they could produce it ?

Haven't but will today, thanks Don.

Paul, Glad you got your Shay running through those 031's with cars. 

 

Hope your feeling better soon.

Thanks however I would like everyone that has this engine to be able to do the same.

I haven't checked this thread in a while. Paul, if interested, the couplers from the Trackmobiles are 1 1/2" long vs the 1 3/4 or 2" couplers the Shay came with.

Pete

<<Holding and pointing the Key Fob and the Legacy Remote was not easy.>>

 

Off topic but nextime try the Legacy Record function in this situation.  Works great.

You can order the 1 1/2" ones from many parts suppliers, I got a couple from Boxcar Bill for $8.50 as I recall.

I think I might order a couple of the shorter ones. As the picture shows the pivot point is moved back approx 1/2", a shorter coupler would get the first car back to a better distance from the engine and still work fine as it is where the coupler pivots from that is the determining factor, and not length of coupler to successful 031 operation.

Paul I think I have a few extra that I bought to shorten the distance on some F3s. I went with Kadees instead. I'll send you a pic this evening as the mount is slightly different. I think for this application they would work though.

 

Pete

Now that you've moved it back, the shorter coupler would look better I believe.

Couldn't agree more.

New Video posted..... you can actually see something.

 

 Lol I was paying attention to the camera and didn't notice, but I see that the three blinks are back and no smoke. First video it smoked fine. Already been back once for this problem.

Well now that I can finally run my Shay where I bought it to run, it will have to wait for running time, it is boxed up again and ready to go back as the smoke unit went belly up yesterday. I think the smoke unit worked about an hour tops since getting it back from the last time in to Lionel Repair to replace the smoke unit. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Great thread.  Great work on your part, Paul.  Just make sure Lionel does not return the locomotive back to you in it's original like new condition... No bracket!

Lol that would be ironic now wouldn't it. Bracket is on the bench lol!

I was shocked to see in their newest catalog that Lionel is still advertising the Shay as 031 curves!

Giving new life to this old and quite long thread...

 

I believe I may have solved my problem with my Lionel Legacy West Side Lumber Shay, which resides in a display case at the moment because it wouldn't negotiate the tight O36 curves on my layout (actually, the engine negotiates the curves okay, but not when it's pulling a train).

 

I located and bought a K-Line TMCC-equipped West Side Lumber Shay (new in box), and it arrived today.  The label on the box specifies O31 operation, so once I get it out of its packaging and on the track I'll see how it does on the O36 minimum curves I currently have in several spots.  All curves on that layout will soon be converted to O42 when I change all the FasTrack over to GarGraves track and Ross switches.

 

Now I'm just waiting for Climax (new ones one the way from MTH) and Heisler (wishful thinking) locomotives to appear.  I may have to put my Alaska RR and U.S. Army Transportation Corps interests aside for a while and see if I might want to explore something interesting with geared locomotives and a logging branch of some sort. 

does anybody have a part number for this k line part

 

I actually have the K-line Shay - but never found the piece in the box.  All of my track is Atlas O-36.  Please post the part number and where it can be ordered from.  Thanks!

Since the legacy shays are on sale now. I to would like to see about getting the bracket. Please post the info about how to get on when you find out. Thanks!