G scale garden railroad on the cheap

IMO, go with wider diameter track. If you expand to larger locos and cars, you'll be prepared to accomodate them. 

8' diameter track is a reasonable choice.

Is Lionel's Plastic track UV protected? Or is it just intended for indoor use only?

If the plastic track is not UV protected, left permanently installed outside the sun's UV rays(and just about anywhere in FL, this is going to be an issue) may cause the track to deteriorate fairly quickly and that $250 for the 54 straights will be wasted.

You could do this, but I suspect it wouldn't take too long before you regretted it. The proper track isn't cheap, but will last a LOOOOONG time.

G/Large/Garden scale isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for. The route you have in mind, MAY end up souring you on the idea, where spending a bit more, you may end up with a very enjoyable poolside railroad. I made a similar mistake with "N" scale, I had Bachmann and model power locomotives, and Bachmann EZ-Track, and was very unhappy with the performance and reliability, but my heart wasn't really in the "N" scale. If I had stepped up for Atlas and Kato, with Kato Uni-trak, my experience probably would have been much better.

We all like to save money when we can, but in MY OPINION, I think that you are very likely to regret this plan very quickly, just MY thoughts, YMMV

Doug

Another thought, use Atlas O track (which IS UV protected), and use the O scale/gauge trains that you have now, the track could be the only thing that you need to buy. I doubt that the Lionel G stuff is any better weather protected than their O gauge stuff, so you would be running it in the same conditions anyway, your power leads could be banana plug equipped so hooking up your transformer could be very quick and simple.

If you search YouTube their are several outdoor O-Gauge layouts shown, it is doable, that might be your Best IN-EXPENSIVE route to having an enjoyable poolside train experience, something to think about anyway,

Doug

Greg,

Speaking from experience.  I have a G scale garden railroad that has been in place for 12 years.  Your plan is a set up for much heart ache.  Not a good idea.

If you want a garden railroad, start out right and enjoy it.  They can be great fun.

Use good brass track made for the outdoors  USA Trains by Roe is a good choice.

Use at least 10' dia. curves.  The biggest bang for your buck for the trains are Bachmann. 

Start out with track power, and start small and add to it after you get the hang of it.

Read all you can on garden railroads before you start anything.

A garden railroad can be enjoyment for both you and your wife, but they do require a lot of up of upkeep.

Karl

a

Some hobby things simply can' be done cheaply if they're done to any acceptable standard. Garden RR is one of them.

Doing it, "On the cheap" simply isn't an option inany way that would be worth your while.

It's one of the reasons I left G scale, as it's a crushing expense to do anything even remotely okay in that scale.

Doug, Karl and Lee thanks for your help. I guess I'll have to rethink my plan.

I have had G scale for 20 years, good stuff-LGB brass track and an engine plus Bachmann.  Don't go cheap on the track, it is your biggest challenge and headache. Have fun.

Used brass track at train shows is about $3 a running foot.

Shipping costs are high, so buy local.

Switches are about $25 for manual, a bit more for electric - used.

If you want to go very cheap, use steel sheet metal strips for rails and notched wood scraps for ties, similar to gargraves's  O track.

Agree with above comments. Look into Aristo Craft track, they are back in business or USA Trains. I believe they might carry stainless steel track but Brass track should be fine. You may also want to check out Kalmbach's "Garden Railways" Magazine it contains a lot of useful info on Garden G scale Trains.

Just be warned, if you do get involved in large scale, you could get CONFUSED even more than you ever were with 3 rail.

"G" is actually a SCALE, but is commonly mis-used to refer to all Large/Garden scale trains collectively. There are about 6 scales that all run on GAUGE 1 TRACK, The scales range from 1:17 to 1:32. IIRC "G" properly refers 1:22 running on Gauge 1 track to represent European "Metre Gauge". MTH uses 1:32, and Aristo Craft used 1:29 to model American Standard gauge on Gauge 1 track. Bachmann uses 1:20.3 on Gauge 1 to model 3' Narrow Gauge, on Gauge 1 track, So on Gauge 1 track, you could have models almost exactly twice as large as the smallest scale that all run on the same track.

To make things even more complicated, there is also a large variety of couplers out there, that have varying degrees of compatibility with each other. I am NOT trying to scare or deter you, just advising you to do some research before you start to heavily.

Large scale can be very Fun and rewarding, but a bit of research can go a LOOONG ways to prevent a mountain of frustration and headaches.

Good Luck, and have FUN,

Doug

Why has this post stayed on the buy/trade forum?

Lionel's G scale stuff left alot to be desired is about the politest way to put it.  Can it be made to run well, yes but it takes some work and this only applies to earlier engines such as the Atlantic and GP7/20 diesels. If you want G around your garden, watch for an LGB starter set on ebay for a good price.  Then expand the circle of track with thier track.  I have had my LGB in my garden for over 15 years now.  The track just needs a polishing a couple times a year with thier polishing pad.  Its not cheap, but I have been patient and gotten good deals on used track to expand the basic set I got from my aunt and uncle years ago.  I thankfully have a shop in Zionsville, IN that lets me put stuff in layaway and has great prices on used items.  Otherwise my LGB would have never grown.  Hasnt grown much in the last several years do to lack of income to buy much.  But I enjoy what I have, and what my one friend has bought me to put on my garden line.   Mike

Definitely stay away from plastic track.  If funds are an issue, build it piecemeal.  When I started in G scale, I purchased some Aristocrat locos and rolling stock.  Then I moved my layout outdoors and quickly found that the trains didn't perform that well.  I looked into LGB and have never looked back.  A bit more expensive but well worth it.  

I started out with a modest layout and just let it expand over the twenty-four years it's been in existance.

My latest video

https://youtu.be/nig_ia3X5T4

I agree with getting track at a train show,  on the cheap,  I hear die hard out door layouts are battery operated, , on brass track, lgb, uses a double ended worm motor,  , USA, Aristo,  good products,  but when I  converted both to STD ga,  I found broken parts,  they separate the wheels  by  using  2 axles pressed into drive gear,  so the plastic gear holds the weight,  the ends break ,  so the axle /wheel  gets loose,  for STD,  I collared those ends after gluing them, then drill straight thru  for  1 piece axles,  for 3 rail didn't  have to worry about  keeping them separated,   lgb uses 1 piece axles,  the wheels are insulated,  thing to do is find a solar panel that will fit on tender to run on,,, I have a new bright g train battery,  I had my dad machine brass wheels for tender ,  6 c,s add up..

Although my G scale layout is currently in boxes, I also recommend avoiding plastic track.

I've bought all my track from here:

http://www.thefavoritespot.com...chmann+g+scale+track

They also have an Ebay presence and are located in Texas i think.

Ebay is a good place to shop for G scale items, I always do the "But It Now" and look for the cheapest price.

Here's a list of Part Numbers of Bachmann 4-6-0 engines that have the metal gears (I got this list from another forum):

91601 EBT 10 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie East Broad Top Ver 6 Metal Gears

91602 D&RGW 178 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western Ver 6 Metal Gears

91603 RGS 25 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie Rio Grande Southern Ver 6 Metal Gears

91604 SPC 22 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie South Pacific Coast Ver 6 Metal Gears

91605 D&RG 10 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Ver 6 Ver 6 Metal Gears

91606 ET&WNC 11 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western Ver 6 Metal Gears

91607 none none 2011 ~ Loco 4-6-0 Annie painted unlettered Black Ver 6 Metal Gears

Bachmann also sells a lot of the parts online.

Do we have a list of G scale vendors on the forum?  I have a good listing in my "Favorites", but I always seem to go back to My Favorite Spot when I buy.

If I was going to do outdoors I'd go battery-operated, remote control (none to little wiring to worry about).  Blue Rail trains I think is coming out with a bluetooth circuit board for G scale that will be controlled from your Ipad/phone, etc (not sure what that would be like with the sun reflecting off it).

Mentioning battery power, I use G Scale Graphics R/C equipment to operate my trains.  He has several different types of electronic modules to choose from.  A few years ago, I tore out all of the wiring buried in the ground.  It had been piece-mealed since 1992.  Made a few bucks at the scrap yard !  

https://www.gscalegraphics.net

Mainline outdoor running via track power is done best with stainless steel track. 

If using battery powered and live steam locos then buy the cheap aluminum track.

If you feel like doing a little building and bashing, you could go with 7/8" scale on G (Gauge 1 ) track. A few items in 1:13 scale are huge and give you that "working railroad" impression pretty quickly.

I have similar designs for my outside deck, and my few G items are an REA Columbia 2-4-2, a Bachmann streetcar and a few spare trucks and some track. That gives me 1:20 scale narrow gauge, but I've had ideas on the 7/8" line above. (1: 13 scale or so) It even works for micro-layouts.

Here's some links: http://www.7-8ths.info/  

 http://www.carendt.com/article...dels-of-tiny-trains/

When it comes to battery power, you could rip out the center rail on your O gauge track, and the 7/8" scale above gives you 18" gauge prototypes, as in mining and quarries, with the track strongly resembling the Decauville sectional track seen in some operations.

This is a great topic. Our club has started to build a G layout but when we get to spring, it will be tough as we need to finish the retaining wall. The track, as noted above, is quite expensive. This may take a lot longer as funds become available.

Don, 

I hope you add some pictures as that project comes together. I think that might turn out to be one stunning layout.

Rob

Thank you Rob. The wall is waiting for the cap stone and then the wall will be finished. We want to work on the track after Memorial day.

oldpa posted:

 

 

I have a spot about 17x20 onside by my pool that has planting but it would not be hard to lay track around the perimeter. What I’m thinking is to buy a Lionel RTR G set and   what ever plastic track needed to make the layout.

I live in Gainesville, FL so no frost heaves to worry about.

I’m thinking a layout of about 14x18

 

A Pennsylvania RTR on Amzon is $95.00

The curved track will come with the set.

The straight track is a killer but doable at $250.00 for 54 pieces.

 

So about $350.  should get me started.

 

The unknown for me is will the Lionel RTR set hold up to light running as I enjoy building the layout more then running, but sure I want to see trains moving.

What do you guys think? Is this a pipe dream.

 

Thanks, Greg

It is only a pipe dream until you take the plunge. When I started in O my first purchase was a Lionel 40' SP&S box car.

Then I said to myself, "There I am committed. It has begun!"

Now, $10,000 later (cheap by many standards here) I say. "What have I done?"

Seriously though - I love it....

Good for you. Go for it!

IMO, Lionel large scale (G-gauge) is only suitable for around a (indoor) Christmas tree.

If you want to go outdoor, you will need robust equipment. And you will have less headaches with R/C controlled battery power or R/C controlled live steam (though live steam is quite pricey).

An outdoor layout usually requires quite a bit of right-of-way maintenance. I suppose if you live in a desert it would be less. But for most locations plants and weeds and grass and roots and... . They never rest!

"on the cheap" is a dangerous phrase. Good luck.

I have had the best results with LGB (original and Marklin) track and trains and for live steam, Roundhouse Engineering out of Doncaster, England. Both brands are excellent and reliable quality at a reasonable price point.

As others have said, go buy an LGB set. Even used LGB is better than the Lionel plastic stuff.

LGB from Germany can probably survive a nuclear blast.

The LGB of today is still top notch stuff but nothing, IMO, can top the German LGB era.

If you are going to do it, do it right.

Karl Reichenbach posted:

Greg,

Speaking from experience.  I have a G scale garden railroad that has been in place for 12 years.  Your plan is a set up for much heart ache.  Not a good idea.

 

I agree with Karl. In this hobby, you generally get what you pay for, and that's equally or even more true when it comes to railroading outdoors. I have been in the Large Scale (G gauge) segment of the hobby for some 30 years, and if you are going to operate outdoors, doing it "on the cheap" is not likely to be a very satisfying experience.

Allan Miller posted:

Karl Reichenbach posted:

Greg,

Speaking from experience.  I have a G scale garden railroad that has been in place for 12 years.  Your plan is a set up for much heart ache.  Not a good idea.

 

I agree with Karl. In this hobby, you generally get what you pay for, and that's equally or even more true when it comes to railroading outdoors. I have been in the Large Scale (G gauge) segment of the hobby for some 30 years, and if you are going to operate outdoors, doing it "on the cheap" is not likely to be a very satisfying experience.

 

The only thing I can add is if anyone is thinking of starting an outdoor RR, it maybe worth trying it with a lower investment to see if you will really stay interested. The flaw to that, is going too cheap can ruin this experiment. An LGB starter set plunked down will at least give an idea of enjoyment level for some new to the hobby without diving in too deeply. Some solid brass track can always be re-used in sidings or storage tracks later in their life. Even the Aristo aluminum can be used with that in mind if you switch later on.

 I have purposely avoided this topic, as I feel an outdoor RR is very expensive. You could cut some corners on what I did. You don't have to buy everything all at once. Almost every idea of how to run outside, still ends up very expensive in the end. Maybe the best way to defend the attempt, would be if you have a lot of spare money. Than "expensive" maybe only relative to someone like me that thinks it is. I read that actor Jim Carrey paid an outfit to put a G scale train around his house in the desert Southwest for his son. I believe even he abandoned the idea later on? (life issues?)

 I could throw out a total price that would scare almost everyone who hasn't started an outdoor RR. Battery use on cheaper track sounds attractive, until you realize that batteries have a definite life cycle and must be replaced. Even track has a life span. For some that run just a small train once in awhile, that cost maybe lower than what it would cost me. So I went with stainless (track powered) on the mainlines. I also went with MTH engines that I feel are a great value. You get sound, smoke, and a lot of features that come standard. All metal gears that seem to last forever.

 I think that MTH should have got into more G scale starter sets to promote the hobby. This scale is so divided that it may not have helped much. Some users feel that 1/32 scale is too small to even consider and instead bash their attempts. Most of them won't bash LGB with their reputation and history in G scale. Why LGB made stuff in so large a scale??? has divided the market into segments that don't get along. If you put a 1/20 scale piece next to a 1/32 scale, you'll wonder how they can run on the same track.

 So watch the videos and look around at what you like. Get a feel for which type of power you want to go with. Find out all the drawbacks before you get in too deeply in a direction that may not be the best choice for what you want to accomplish.

I dumped a lot of $$ on LGB track and engines plus some Bachmann geared engines but finally gave up on it. Too much effort and work especially in the NE.  Sold it off cheap to an antique dealer and he still has it.  Really didn't enjoy running it too much but was fun building a round house, water tank, bridge and buildings for a town If I did it again I would have some simple track, stainless, one good engine and a few cars.

jim pastorius posted:

I dumped a lot of $$ on LGB track and engines plus some Bachmann geared engines but finally gave up on it. Too much effort and work especially in the NE.  Sold it off cheap to an antique dealer and he still has it.  Really didn't enjoy running it too much but was fun building a round house, water tank, bridge and buildings for a town If I did it again I would have some simple track, stainless, one good engine and a few cars.

Does NE mean Nebraska? If so where did you sell the Garden Gauge stuff, I am always looking for more and it hard to find around here.

Doesn't "G" stand for $1000.00. Kinda self explanatory IMHO.

Have had stainless steel track laid permanently outside for the last 14 years with very, very few issues. I'm in Northwest Illinois so the weather exposure can get pretty brutal. A simple wiping with Goo-Gone in the Spring and occasional sweeping to remove tree debris is all it takes. Best investment I made at the time.

Running G scale indoors is a lot cheaper and with much less effort, and yet affords  great fun!  :-)

Greg,

I can offer no advice at all, other than to just encourage you to do it even though it will be less inexpensive than you first thought.  My wife and I would love to add a small outdoor railroad too.  It will have to wait until I retire which still may be as much as 5 years off.

Rigatoni Express Railroad

WOW! I'll be.

I have seen your lay out on so many e-net searches when I was studying how I wanted to do a small garden layout. 

I am in the process now and copying a lot of your layout . At least from a visual point of view. It looks clean and functional . That is what I liked about it as well as the beautiful appearance in general.

Is this some of your other pictures. I have a folder with others that if they aren't yours someone else has copied some of it besides me. lol

jim pastorius posted:

I dumped a lot of $$ on LGB track and engines plus some Bachmann geared engines but finally gave up on it. Too much effort and work especially in the NE.  Sold it off cheap to an antique dealer and he still has it.  Really didn't enjoy running it too much but was fun building a round house, water tank, bridge and buildings for a town If I did it again I would have some simple track, stainless, one good engine and a few cars.

Unfortunately, Bachmann geared engines (in all scales, HO, On30, and even G) are too fragile to be very reliable (beautiful, but fragile). If you were using LGB track, you were halfway there, too bad you didn't also have an LGB loco too! Stainless track would be better, but is not cheap and can be hard to find. Unfortunately, "cheap" and large scale are pretty much mutually exclusive, but I have found the little Hartland "Mighty Mack" or their "Sparky" (same drive) to be the exception, because at less than a hundred bucks, it seems to do quite well. It is small and light though, and thus is limited in the number of cars it can pull.

Bill in FtL

Larry Sr.  Thanks for the kind words. Yes, those are photos of my garden layout that you've shown. If you'd like to see different angles, just let me know and I'll send you some. My email is in my profile. Thanks,  Joe

Joe

ABSOUTELY.

In the am I will zip you a e mail.

Thanks

Larry

Rigatoni Express Railroad posted:

Have had stainless steel track laid permanently outside for the last 14 years with very, very few issues. I'm in Northwest Illinois so the weather exposure can get pretty brutal. A simple wiping with Goo-Gone in the Spring and occasional sweeping to remove tree debris is all it takes. Best investment I made at the time.

Nice layout. How did you fasten your G scale track or is your track floating on the gravel.
What do you use for gravel it looks like small pea stones or is it 3/4" crushers?

Thanks