Looking at HO...Pros and Cons?

I was at a local hobby shop today buying some Atlas O rolling stock and happened to see their large selection of HO scale trains. After running O scale for 2 years, I had to look at the boxes and individual display cases to differentiate HO scale from N. In fact, I have some HO scale trains and cannot believe just how small they are.

There is something really neat about picking up a 6-lb locomotive with near-HO scale detail, or in the case with Atlas O and Lionel's BTO locomotives, HO scale fidelity. I would never  consider HO.

My operating HO friends are envious of my smooth operation and almost complete lack of derailing problems.

Michael Hokkanen posted:

My operating HO friends are envious of my smooth operation and almost complete lack of derailing problems.

That's one of the main things that keeps me from going back to HO. More than one derailment per session will start sucking the fun out of running trains for me. That's why I lost interest in slot cars. They flew off the track much too often. 

Two rail O may not be as forgiving as 3 rail but it is still much more forgiving than HO. 

I tried HO twice before I got into O. Both times HO just didn't take with me. When I discovered O I found a scale that I could control at very slow speeds and I still think the electrocoupler is the most awesome invention ever whether it's scale or not. Additionally I like tinkering with my trains and taking them apart when I need to in order to modify or do repairs. I imagine you can do that with HO but not with my eyesight. Still, I would love to see a modern HO layout with DCC in operation and definitely envy the variety.

Nobody seems to mention this: location.  I like HO, in fact I have quite a roster of HO equipment that I OPERATE ON A CLUB LAYOUT.  I tried to build an HO pike in my basement but I ran into problems with heat, cold and dampness.  Sure, sure I had a dehumidifier but it just wasn't adequate  for the job.  I had too much trouble with derailments on buckled track.  I got so disgusted that I tore out and trashed my HO tracks and dug out my old Lionel that had reposed for at least fifteen years in storage and it has served well.  So may I suggest that you join an HO club and run your HO trains there?  You can always quit and not be stuck with an unwanted monster HO pike if you don't like HO.     Odd-d

HO has plenty of advantages, which is not to say that one scale is necessarily better than another. However, if you're interested, don't let some of the previous comments scare you off.

You won't have derailment problems as long as you're willing to lay your roadbed and track properly.  On my HO layout, I could run a train in reverse at full speed without derailing- including through switches and 22" radius curves.  Do it right and you won't have trouble.

Now, if you just want to plop down some track and run trains, I'd advise using a roadbed track like Kato Unitrack or similar.  It's basically a smaller version of Fastrack and allows you to run a train pretty much anywhere.

My suggestion would be to pick up a locomotive or two, some decent-quality cars like Athearn RTR or Atlas Trainman, and a loop of track and run some trains.  If you're happy with it, go from there.  If not, you can probably sell it for a reasonable price.  But if you want scale trains at somewhat-affordable prices, it's tough to beat HO.

I would recommend picking up a Bachmann EZ Command starter set. It will have their entry level DCC controller, a DCC Command engine( no sound), an oval of track, perhaps a switch or two, uncoupling magnet.

set it up and give it a whirl. I think you'll be a bit surprised. 

Next, pick up a Atlas Gold series engine (eBay is fine, $125-$150) it'll have DCC and now you'll be having sound. You can operate the atlas engine with the Bachmann EZ Command. 

This gives you a taste of what HO has to offer.

HO, N, Z, O, G, 3 rail, it's all model railroading, don't let comments scare you away from trying something new. There is a reason why HO is by far the most popular scale in model railroading in the world.

There are many here on the forum who dabble in multiple scales and gauges.

I currently have MTH O gauge 3rail under the Christmas tree, downstairs I have HO and MTH O gauge 3rail running. When granddaughter is over I have it all running for her.

Life is to short, Enjoy them all!

I have tons of HO stuff.  I have been in HO from about 1972 to 2011.  Then the O bug bit.  There is no comparison for me personally.  Thanks to MTH for raising the bar and Lionel as well to give us realistic detailed models!  I love the HO stuff but there's nothing like receiving your first MTH Premier Auto Carrier that is 22 inches long!  I love the size and weight.  Cleaning the track is much easier as O is forgiving.  The HO trains do derail too much for me even weighing them to NMRA standards.  Both are really great stuff but I'm so glad to have O and will always have until the nursing home--then here comes Z scale!!!  Break out the huge magnifier! 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The "HO trains derail a lot" crowd is either running cheap, lightweight cars or doesn't know how to lay track.  I stated my experiences above, I know a guy who routinely runs 60-70 car trains in HO and VERY seldom has derailments.  Yeah, the old Tyco junk from the 80's derailed because of light weight and truck-mounted couplers.  Properly-weighted cars with body-mounted couplers (which nearly ALL are today) are a whole different animal.  If you're running those and having problems, take a look at your trackwork.

Mike, you're probably right. Back when I was in HO I mostly had Athearn blue box and some Roundhouse and Walthers rolling stock. I was using Atlas sectional track and Atlas flex track. I assume the track was in gauge but back then I didn't know about checking the gauge of the wheels. I don't know if you consider these models cheap or not but I did have a lot of derailments. The rolling stock did have weights in them from the factory but maybe they needed more weight. I didn't know about the NMRA standards back then either. I doubt it was the track but probably something preventable with the rolling stock.

I also had the same problem as Odd-d with the rails on the flex track. Back then my basement wasn't insulated and no matter how I set up the flex track it either buckled or created large gaps when there was a change in seasons.

Phil, I wouldn't call those cars cheap but I think you identified the problem with a lot of them- the plastic wheelsets were often out of gauge, not centered on the axles or just didn't roll straight.  I've replaced most of mine with metal wheels and it's a big improvement.  Makes a difference in keeping the track clean too- those plastic wheels collect and distribute gunk.  Most, if not all, of the current ready-to-run cars come with metal wheels installed, while kits from Bowser and Accurail still come with plastic wheels as far as I know.

Did you have any of the old Roundhouse cars with the white-metal frames and short, self-tapping truck screws?  The screws used to walk out as the cars ran and I'd find them on the track...  Losing a truck tends to cause derailments!

Bad track in any scale causes derailments.   I have seen O scale 2 rail layouts and even 3 rail layouts that have more derailments than the well done N-scale layout in my neighborhood.   In fact the only derailments on the N-scale I have seen are operator error.    And we operate this on with switchlists and TT&TO schedule, switching a lot of cars and running a lot of trains through various switches. 

ONe trick to look for kinks in the track, is to put a hand held mirror down on the track and look along the track in the mirror.   You tend to see the kinks a lot better that way.

My earliest memories of trains go back to playing with my Dad's HO railroad, which was designed very similar to the "Great South Pass" articles in "Model Railroader" way back in the mid 1950s.  Very early memories include playing with his Tenshodo GN and CB&Q GP20s and SD9, and Varney NW2 switcher. 

With the exception of Lionel trains from about age 6 thru 16 (sold them all to buy HO brass steam), and an 11 year sideline into three rail from 2003 thru 2014, I've never left HO.  I'm still liquidating my 3 rail O collection, and plowing the money back into the basement HO railroad. 

If you take your time laying your track properly, use metal wheelsets (which you check with an NMRA gauge to make sure the are properly gauged), and properly set your coupler height, and weight your cars properly, HO will run every bit as good as any three rail O model railroad.  Granted, my three rail O scale experiences were 95% associated with a modular railroad, but I had far MORE derailment problems with three rail O than I ever had with HO.   My most recent locomotive purchases were two HO Atlas ALCo S2 switchers, with ESU loc-sound.  Runs better than any three rail O scale locomotive I've ever owned, as it does not have that jackrabbit 0 to 1 smph start that plagues every darn TMCC locomotive I owned (and MTH DCS locomotive when I could get them to run).  

My advice, is find a local HO club that allows younger members, or consider joining a modular HO group that sets up at train shows.  Buy yourself the equipment necessary to model what you like, say a couple of CSX AC4400s, and a string of coal cars, with at FRED on the end.  Make sure that club runs DCC, and buy the locomotives with DCC installed sound.  There is a LOT of GREAT RUNNING HO, with awesome SOUND out there.

Then make your decision.  Based on where your interests lie, your best served modeling in HO.   

The HO world is your oyster. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

So, it's now February, and I've still been thinking long and hard about HO scale. I've now thought I could build a two level shelf layout around most of the room. (I don't know the dimensions off hand, I'll measure them when I get home) With a shelf layout, I still could use all of the room and still set up my O layout for the holidays. Plus, since it's multi level, I could really make quite a long run! Again for the route I would probably model is the part of Sandpatch grade (specific area TBD) in summer or fall 1990.

I was in HO for years before i went to O scale the things i liked about HO are the large amout of locomotives and rolling stock in the road names i wanted the room it took to run large trains i also liked the cost of the products but now things have changed 1st is the cost with electronics and diecast locos the cost has gone up and up so now some HO pieces are one the same level as brass and even O scale i also liked the fact if you wanted digital command control you could buy just 1 unit and get as many loco as you wanted form every manufacture as you wanted to run the only problem i have is i hate running short o scale trains when i was in HO i could 80 car coal trains and i want to do that on my O scale layout but i cant not enought room and the cost of buying that many cars would cause me to drain my bank account so good luck have fun

"Z" and "N" are nice, HO has a lot going for it, as there is a load of stuff out there at reasonable prices.
"O is nice and large as well a "G" (gauge 1) and standard gauge.
The only thing I can say is that I like prewar O and now getting into standard.
I find it more in my budget to get used prewar stuff.
Plus the main reason is that as you get older your eyesight is not as good as it once was and with the larger stuff you can see it a lot better
What ever you choose just have fun and enjoy!

I did some measurements of the room I would build in. The room is roughly 15 by 17 (give or take a few inches). The layout would run around 3/4 of the room on shelves attached to the walls. Again the layout would be 2 levels, so there would be one helix on each end of the layout. 

Michael, that's a nice area for a ho railroad.

below is a link to a short video of when I was working a flood loader on a HO railroad ( early CSX). Because I was operating the engine, the flood loader and the camera all at the same time the loading and video work are not the best.

http://youtu.be/u4CYW8xbTBk

"My operating HO friends are envious of my smooth operation and almost complete lack of derailing problems."

Don't know what level of skill, or what type of HO stuff they're buying, but I'll say right now that HO can be every bit as reliable as O scale ever thought about being, either 3 rail or 2 rail.

As for envious of your smooth operating locomotives, that was THE DEAL breaker for me and O scale. Even the Atlas engine that I purchased (their SW 9, I think) did NOT run as smooth as my HO Kato NW2 that I purchased way back in the late 90's. In fact, NO O scale engine I've ever been around can run as smoothly as good quality HO.

Like I said, even though the Atlas SW ran better than the rest... it was still not as good as my HO that I had leftover from "back when".  That was the final straw and put me out of O scale.

Long story shorter: Returned to HO and am not looking back. 

Model in HO: Some can, some can't, others won't. No biggie. It's your model world and you've got to find your "happy place" in it regardless of the scale.

I like working on the locos.  If I thought I could do that successfully in HO scale, I would be a brain surgeon!  The parts availability for Lionel postwar and MPC is another boon, but not as much with the more recent scale offerings.

I agree with the previous poster about the diesels: two small motors and swinging pilots bug me.  But I'm a steam guy.  Regarding performance, I would put a 3rd Rail loco, or even one of the new Legacy locos against its HO-scale counterpart any time.  The lack of sprung drivers is noticeable in the larger scales when a long-wheelbase loco "thumps" over uneven trackwork, but for me it's not a deal-breaker.

The #1 difference I see between HO and O is the focus.  In O scale, the focus is on the trains themselves; you can get away with only modeling the environment adjacent to the right-of-way.  Because of limitations with arm's reach, wide radius layouts are often built in the "open doughnut" configuration, on modules only 3' deep.  Realistic grades require 50 feet of run.  In HO scale it seems more important to have varied terrain and a fully landscaped environment.  The scope is larger and just different.

If I were going to give up O scale, I would look hard at American Models' S-scale offerings.  I started in O, and there's never been as much available in S.  But in retrospect, it seems like the perfect size.  My $.02.

This is a toss up in my opinion.  O has the size and easier to wire;  HO is more prototypically correct and has a substantial price advantage.

I have some very nice three rail engines both O and G and likewise in HO and N.

 I just purchased this MTH new release (DMIR 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone) from Nassau Hobbies and the detail is exceptional.  While the sound may not be as impressive an O gauge engine it can hold it's own with ALL of the other sound features and even has a remote rear coupler.

This engine cost me $529.00 (retail $599.00) .  A similar release by Sunset 3rd rail a number of years ago was $1799.00, a MTH version was $1299.00 (list prices).

I  guess from a "watching" perspective , O is more impressive than HO but G is more impressive than O IMHO

http://mthtrains.com/news/578

Good luck with your decision, you can always change or have multiple gauges as you progress and funds allow.

My thought is that, if you want to model a specific place, the smaller the scale, the more you will fit in. If you are modelling a specific place, you probably want to populate it with scale locomotives; again, the smaller, the more you can do.

On the other hand, if you want a scale locomotive, not because it is the one which fits into the specific place, but just because, "wow, look at all the piping!" then the bigger the scale the better, so long as you have enough space for it to turn around in.

Given what you have said in your posts, it sounds like you fall into the first camp.

Ted Sowirka posted:

I like working on the locos.  If I thought I could do that successfully in HO scale, I would be a brain surgeon!  The parts availability for Lionel postwar and MPC is another boon, but not as much with the more recent scale offerings.

I agree with the previous poster about the diesels: two small motors and swinging pilots bug me.  But I'm a steam guy.  Regarding performance, I would put a 3rd Rail loco, or even one of the new Legacy locos against its HO-scale counterpart any time.  The lack of sprung drivers is noticeable in the larger scales when a long-wheelbase loco "thumps" over uneven trackwork, but for me it's not a deal-breaker.

The #1 difference I see between HO and O is the focus.  In O scale, the focus is on the trains themselves; you can get away with only modeling the environment adjacent to the right-of-way.  Because of limitations with arm's reach, wide radius layouts are often built in the "open doughnut" configuration, on modules only 3' deep.  Realistic grades require 50 feet of run.  In HO scale it seems more important to have varied terrain and a fully landscaped environment.  The scope is larger and just different.

If I were going to give up O scale, I would look hard at American Models' S-scale offerings.  I started in O, and there's never been as much available in S.  But in retrospect, it seems like the perfect size.  My $.02.

Hi Ted:

As one who still owns a fair amount of 3rd Rail three rail steam, I'd put up my latest HO Sunset and BLI steam acquisitions against any Legacy or 3rd Rail 3 rail steam any day.  The HO stuff wins hands down.   I have already sold off a fair amount of my three rail equipment, and I'm back in HO for the long haul.  I have put three rail in my rear view, and I don't miss it one bit. 

I just got back today from "Prairie Rail 2016" in the Kansas city area.  I operated on five different layouts, and all four of the HO railroads (one was Jim Eudaly's O scale C&O two rail O scale layout) were "shelf style" layouts, where the shelves were usually no more than 30" wide, and were frequently narrower.  Two of the four were double deck designs utilizing a helix to transition between levels. 

All five layouts ran awesome, and all ran better than any three rail layout I have either operated on, or built. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

gnnpnut posted:

Ted Sowirka posted:

I like working on the locos.  If I thought I could do that successfully in HO scale, I would be a brain surgeon!  The parts availability for Lionel postwar and MPC is another boon, but not as much with the more recent scale offerings.

I agree with the previous poster about the diesels: two small motors and swinging pilots bug me.  But I'm a steam guy.  Regarding performance, I would put a 3rd Rail loco, or even one of the new Legacy locos against its HO-scale counterpart any time.  The lack of sprung drivers is noticeable in the larger scales when a long-wheelbase loco "thumps" over uneven trackwork, but for me it's not a deal-breaker.

The #1 difference I see between HO and O is the focus.  In O scale, the focus is on the trains themselves; you can get away with only modeling the environment adjacent to the right-of-way.  Because of limitations with arm's reach, wide radius layouts are often built in the "open doughnut" configuration, on modules only 3' deep.  Realistic grades require 50 feet of run.  In HO scale it seems more important to have varied terrain and a fully landscaped environment.  The scope is larger and just different.

If I were going to give up O scale, I would look hard at American Models' S-scale offerings.  I started in O, and there's never been as much available in S.  But in retrospect, it seems like the perfect size.  My $.02.

Hi Ted:

As one who still owns a fair amount of 3rd Rail three rail steam, I'd put up my latest HO Sunset and BLI steam acquisitions against any Legacy or 3rd Rail 3 rail steam any day.  The HO stuff wins hands down.   I have already sold off a fair amount of my three rail equipment, and I'm back in HO for the long haul.  I have put three rail in my rear view, and I don't miss it one bit. 

I just got back today from "Prairie Rail 2016" in the Kansas city area.  I operated on five different layouts, and all four of the HO railroads (one was Jim Eudaly's O scale C&O two rail O scale layout) were "shelf style" layouts, where the shelves were usually no more than 30" wide, and were frequently narrower.  Two of the four were double deck designs utilizing a helix to transition between levels. 

All five layouts ran awesome, and all ran better than any three rail layout I have either operated on, or built. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

Did you happen to get any photos of any shelf layouts?

gnnpnut posted:

Ted Sowirka posted:

I like working on the locos.  If I thought I could do that successfully in HO scale, I would be a brain surgeon!  The parts availability for Lionel postwar and MPC is another boon, but not as much with the more recent scale offerings.

I agree with the previous poster about the diesels: two small motors and swinging pilots bug me.  But I'm a steam guy.  Regarding performance, I would put a 3rd Rail loco, or even one of the new Legacy locos against its HO-scale counterpart any time.  The lack of sprung drivers is noticeable in the larger scales when a long-wheelbase loco "thumps" over uneven trackwork, but for me it's not a deal-breaker.

The #1 difference I see between HO and O is the focus.  In O scale, the focus is on the trains themselves; you can get away with only modeling the environment adjacent to the right-of-way.  Because of limitations with arm's reach, wide radius layouts are often built in the "open doughnut" configuration, on modules only 3' deep.  Realistic grades require 50 feet of run.  In HO scale it seems more important to have varied terrain and a fully landscaped environment.  The scope is larger and just different.

If I were going to give up O scale, I would look hard at American Models' S-scale offerings.  I started in O, and there's never been as much available in S.  But in retrospect, it seems like the perfect size.  My $.02.

Hi Ted:

As one who still owns a fair amount of 3rd Rail three rail steam, I'd put up my latest HO Sunset and BLI steam acquisitions against any Legacy or 3rd Rail 3 rail steam any day.  The HO stuff wins hands down.   I have already sold off a fair amount of my three rail equipment, and I'm back in HO for the long haul.  I have put three rail in my rear view, and I don't miss it one bit. 

I just got back today from "Prairie Rail 2016" in the Kansas city area.  I operated on five different layouts, and all four of the HO railroads (one was Jim Eudaly's O scale C&O two rail O scale layout) were "shelf style" layouts, where the shelves were usually no more than 30" wide, and were frequently narrower.  Two of the four were double deck designs utilizing a helix to transition between levels. 

All five layouts ran awesome, and all ran better than any three rail layout I have either operated on, or built. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

 

hello Ted, no doubt that Sunset makes beautifully detailed engines and passenger cars.  I would put up my Sunset AM-2 cab forward against any 3 rail or HO engine as far as detail is concerned.     Just to set the record straight the new MTH DMIR Yellowstone HAS sprung drivers.

If the decision is to go HO, I suggest that one builds his layout at maybe 6 inches less that eye level as to help mitigate the size difference.  The lower you go, the smaller they look.

regards

Bart Zuccala (daylight)

laming posted:

"My operating HO friends are envious of my smooth operation and almost complete lack of derailing problems."

Don't know what level of skill, or what type of HO stuff they're buying, but I'll say right now that HO can be every bit as reliable as O scale ever thought about being, either 3 rail or 2 rail.

As for envious of your smooth operating locomotives, that was THE DEAL breaker for me and O scale. Even the Atlas engine that I purchased (their SW 9, I think) did NOT run as smooth as my HO Kato NW2 that I purchased way back in the late 90's. In fact, NO O scale engine I've ever been around can run as smoothly as good quality HO.

Like I said, even though the Atlas SW ran better than the rest... it was still not as good as my HO that I had leftover from "back when".  That was the final straw and put me out of O scale.

Long story shorter: Returned to HO and am not looking back. 

Model in HO: Some can, some can't, others won't. No biggie. It's your model world and you've got to find your "happy place" in it regardless of the scale.

Hello laming...........

I agreed with you about this and to help with the matters, l myself have left "O" 3 rail for the same reasons above and tired of factory defects out of the box as well as high prices for defective items ?, had enough of that.  I grew tired of dealing with defective expensive trains out of the box and having to spend lot of time fixing or going through the engines before putting them on the track for the first time running.  I switched to "N" scale and sold on Kato "N" scale after buying a my first Kato N scale NW-2 for 75 dollars and putting on the track for very first time, it ran very smooth out of the box, I was very surprised and I can get it to crawl very slowly to be able to count the ties as the engine passes by !!!! (that is on straight DC, NO DCC decoder either using a MRC railpower 1370 pack).  I was very impressed so went a bought the Kato U.P. # 844, they both just blew me away in how well they run out of the box !!!!!!.  The KEY here is do good quality track work and you will not have problems.  Remember this guys, of course the N and H.O. trains will have derailments it is because of their scale size flanges and much lighter weight if the track work isn't done correctly ,what are you expecting ?  I wondered if the Chinese made army tanks and fighter aircraft are poorly made and defective like these Chinese made trains are ?  I think N, H.O. scale Kato trains are the highest quality trains made as they are from Japan (l spend a lot of time looking at the constructions of the 2 Kato engines I have).  l guess the Japanese have far better quality control in making things better than the Chinese do.  I would still stay far away from Bachmann  N, H.O scale as my first  Bachmann engine was a N scale S.F. 4-8-4 back in 1972 that thing never ran right and made a lot of noise too.  Lionel ,MTH, Atlas and others will continue to sell defective items as long as you guys keep buying from them, they will keep on selling them that way and shippers get rich too.  I know because I been doing that for 40 years so enough is enough.  I no longer cared if they Lionel MTH and Atlas go out of business as long as they keep making defective items like the way they do these days.  If you guys quit buying defective trains and this will force the companies to clean up their act and improve quality ( it can be done at THEIR expenses not the customers !!, I mean why should we have to pay for to ship it back and forth to get it fixed when they are the ones that mess up so let them eat the costs!!!, come-on guys THINK about it before getting angry)  The NW-2 is my favorite switcher and the Kato one fills the bill really nicely !!!!  Someday I HOPE to find a Kato Santa Fe NW-2 in H.O.

Tiffany,

Nothing wrong with dipping your toe to test the HO water.

To dip my toe in I picked up a Bachmann DCC on board starter set, has a DCC  Deisel, 2-3 cars, sectional track, EZ DCC command power/controller. Set up is sectional track and plug a wire in, that's it. I would go on to find that all the negative I had been told about HO was either false or an exaggeration. My little starter set up was flawless. I ended up picking up a Atlas Engine W / DCC & sound and some additional track, now I had a decent setup to "try out this HO stuff".            

Couple of things:

1. Make sure your table/ shelf is at least 44" high, even consider 46,48 even 50.

2. Don't buy junk. Make sure all your rolling stock are with metal wheels, Kadee compatible couplers. If you don't know where to start, go to Walthers.com, then search, HO, freight cars, Walthers ( manufacturer), mainline. Hit search, look for some rolling stock that is on sale or on close out, you should be able to get started with some at nearly half price. That'll get you some rolling stock.

3. Only get DCC / Sound engines. I have Atlas, Broadway Limited,  Intermountain ( I only operate 1980's and newer (CSX)). I'm too new to know much about all the other manufacturers.  

If someone is even considering expanding their railroad empire to include HO ... they really must see the modern stuff in action. And, take the naysayer's advice with a grain of salt.

Even if someone wanted to go with the FasTrack-like Unitrack from KATO, with its bullet-proof reliability and ease of installation, there are ways to make it more realistic. Folks even use it to make yards ... using cork to bring up the ground elevation.

And, you if use Japanese KATO engines, rolling stock, and track ...... with American NCE DCC control and decoders .... you bypass China altogether! lol

 It's all good.

.

I've been dabbling in O scale for a couple of decades, on and off, mostly small 2-rail switching layouts. O gauge 3-rail is a recent thing for me, and I started out in 00 /H0 scale moons ago.

Comparing the two scales, I found O is a case of what you see is what you get, for the most part. In H0 I was frustrated by the difference between what was seen in the magazines vs. what you could actually get at a decent price. Very unsatisfying. On the other hand, a few items in O give a better impression of a railroad with their weight and chunkiness. Just one man's opinion, and that's all it is. (And maybe my eyesight)

I like it all! HO and N is still  small scale stuff to me is nice but it's still small. You can fit more into an area large or small with HO and its 3-4' curves that still beats 6-8' curves in O. It's not what's best but what's best for you.

We jokingly refer to our trains at the club as "trains you can actually see" because half of us are between 50 and 300 years old and can't see anything smaller than O scale.

Bluegill1 posted:

Nothing wrong with dipping your toe to test the HO water.

To dip my toe in I picked up a Bachmann DCC on board starter set, has a DCC  Deisel, 2-3 cars, sectional track, EZ DCC command power/controller. Set up is sectional track and plug a wire in, that's it. I would go on to find that all the negative I had been told about HO was either false or an exaggeration. My little starter set up was flawless. I ended up picking up a Atlas Engine W / DCC & sound and some additional track, now I had a decent setup to "try out this HO stuff".            

Couple of things:

1. Make sure your table/ shelf is at least 44" high, even consider 46,48 even 50.

2. Don't buy junk. Make sure all your rolling stock are with metal wheels, Kadee compatible couplers. If you don't know where to start, go to Walthers.com, then search, HO, freight cars, Walthers ( manufacturer), mainline. Hit search, look for some rolling stock that is on sale or on close out, you should be able to get started with some at nearly half price. That'll get you some rolling stock.

3. Only get DCC / Sound engines. I have Atlas, Broadway Limited,  Intermountain ( I only operate 1980's and newer (CSX)). I'm too new to know much about all the other manufacturers.  

 

Great advice.  The original part of my HO layout dates back to 1987.  I built that at a layout height of 52", and for me, a 5' 11" male, that height is ideal both to work on and to operate. 

However, in order to get a longer main line, I've went with a triple deck shelf style railroad on my extension, which will give me a very long main line which should be great for the time table and train order operation that I want to incorporate.   (TT&TO).   On that railroad, my heights are at 25", 46", and 66".  Harder to work on, but will pay dividends when built. 

I also went with a maximum 30" shelf on one side of the support wall, and 24" on the other.  The lowest level is 16" and 24" respectively (I moved in the backdrop). 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

ES44AC posted:

gnnpnut posted:

Ted Sowirka posted:

I like working on the locos.  If I thought I could do that successfully in HO scale, I would be a brain surgeon!  The parts availability for Lionel postwar and MPC is another boon, but not as much with the more recent scale offerings.

I agree with the previous poster about the diesels: two small motors and swinging pilots bug me.  But I'm a steam guy.  Regarding performance, I would put a 3rd Rail loco, or even one of the new Legacy locos against its HO-scale counterpart any time.  The lack of sprung drivers is noticeable in the larger scales when a long-wheelbase loco "thumps" over uneven trackwork, but for me it's not a deal-breaker.

The #1 difference I see between HO and O is the focus.  In O scale, the focus is on the trains themselves; you can get away with only modeling the environment adjacent to the right-of-way.  Because of limitations with arm's reach, wide radius layouts are often built in the "open doughnut" configuration, on modules only 3' deep.  Realistic grades require 50 feet of run.  In HO scale it seems more important to have varied terrain and a fully landscaped environment.  The scope is larger and just different.

If I were going to give up O scale, I would look hard at American Models' S-scale offerings.  I started in O, and there's never been as much available in S.  But in retrospect, it seems like the perfect size.  My $.02.

Hi Ted:

As one who still owns a fair amount of 3rd Rail three rail steam, I'd put up my latest HO Sunset and BLI steam acquisitions against any Legacy or 3rd Rail 3 rail steam any day.  The HO stuff wins hands down.   I have already sold off a fair amount of my three rail equipment, and I'm back in HO for the long haul.  I have put three rail in my rear view, and I don't miss it one bit. 

I just got back today from "Prairie Rail 2016" in the Kansas city area.  I operated on five different layouts, and all four of the HO railroads (one was Jim Eudaly's O scale C&O two rail O scale layout) were "shelf style" layouts, where the shelves were usually no more than 30" wide, and were frequently narrower.  Two of the four were double deck designs utilizing a helix to transition between levels. 

All five layouts ran awesome, and all ran better than any three rail layout I have either operated on, or built. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

Did you happen to get any photos of any shelf layouts?

Sorry ES44, I did not.  I was there to operate. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

O gauge or NO gauge.

I also agree with what Bluegill1 posted. I insist on metal wheels for both HO and O. I have some old Athearn blue box cars that sentimental to me. I didn't want to get rid of them but I hate the plastic wheels. I found out that various companies including Kadee and Walthers make replacement wheels for Athearn blue box cars. I bought a 12 pack of the Walthers wheel sets for $13 at the LHS. I upgraded three boxcars. I can't believe how much better these cars roll! I also sanded down and painted the metal weight flat black as it had developed some rust. Here's one of the three boxcars. 

Hudson J1e posted:

I also agree with what Bluegill1 posted. I insist on metal wheels for both HO and O. I have some old Athearn blue box cars that sentimental to me. I didn't want to get rid of them but I hate the plastic wheels. I found out that various companies including Kadee and Walthers make replacement wheels for Athearn blue box cars. I bought a 12 pack of the Walthers wheel sets for $13 at the LHS. I upgraded three boxcars. I can't believe how much better these cars roll! I also sanded down and painted the metal weight flat black as it had developed some rust. Here's one of the three boxcars. 

 

Just curious, as the norm do HO freight cars come with"plastic" wheels????

Popi posted:

O gauge or NO gauge.

Cute picture.  Your input doesn't tell us much useful info, except that it tells us you may be anal about O gauge. Next time you chime in at the O gauge forum, perhaps I'll drop by and say "NO Gauge is O gauge" or some other drive-by type of post.

Why does it always become an "O gaugers vs the world" type thing to discuss pros/cons strengths/weaknesses of the various gauges, especially here in the forum where such is more appropriate than ever?

I personally have a like and respect for some 0 3 rail (love PW steam), 0 two rail, S scale (both scale and AF), et al. Heck, I even like vintage HO!  My preferred (chosen) medium for long term modeling happens to be "scale" HO. I don't see why we have to wave banners for our chosen medium.

Do what you like and have fun.

"Just curious, as the norm do HO freight cars come with"plastic" wheels????"

Most of the older Athearn "blue box", MDC/Roundhouse, Accurail, EBT, and other mfg'ers of years ago used plastic wheel sets.

I'm not sure about the bulk of today's offerings, for I have yet to start seriously amassing rolling stock for my upcoming retirement layout. (Hung up on buy as many engines as I can afford right now!)

Laming,

Just curious about your thoughts here, are you buying any MTH engines or just sticking with the big HO brands like Athern, BLI, etc.? My brother-in-law is strictly HO and he thinks Athern Genesis is the cat's meow. I can't disagree it is very nice stuff, but I am not sure he thinks much of the MTH line? I have looked at MTH HO and think it looks pretty nice as well (I admire it on every visit to my LHS), but I am 3 rail O gauge. He has been buying HO for probably close to 50 years though and probably fairly set in his ways as we all get when we get older.

Hi RTR12!

At this point I do not have any MTH. Previously I was a bit biased against MTH for the way I thought they were doing their DCS and implementing "eletro-gadgets" that I have no use for.  However, input from members of this forum helped me to realize:

* Later MTH HO products are compatible with DCC. (And DC also guys?)

* They run very smoothly and perform nicely on DCC.

In view of the above, and by looking at some YouTube videos of select MTH HO offerings, I no longer have an aversion toward MTH products.  I do not have any MTH at this point, simply because they haven't offered something in HO that would be congruent with my HO layout's theme.

Now, having said that, I WAS tempted to purchase their Union Pacific FA set they offered here a while back to use as run-through/transfer drag power on my upcoming KC Lines theme layout... but just didn't pull the trigger and purchase.

We shall see!