Looking for tips or advices for the early Williams Dreyfuss Hudson to run

Pretty sure I have the same loco.

As a runner mine needed nothing but a little cleaning and oil. It's all metal drive IIRC and while simple....a great model. 

All my issues were with the locos looks. I added tender skirts, air pumps under the nose, NYC shield and new decals as the original were paper stickers. 

The end result.......you should with any luck have a great loco no matter if you leave it alone or rework it. 

FYI here it is out of the box.......

After reading the other thread I  lubed the two I have and they ran. The only issue was on one wheel set all fell out oj the tender truck.

Hello guys and gals

Does anyone have a Williams 1984 catalog where this early Dreyfuss Hudson is listed in ?   I am curious what it looked like in the catalog back then and perhaps take picture of it and post it here ?

"When I heard your voice, the baby inside me jump with joy" Luke 1:44 ERV (Easy to Read Version) This is talking about baby Jesus inside Mary before birth!

Tiffany

Hello Guys and Gals.......

I received My Williams Dreyfuss Hudson this morning and took it out the box.  I been inspecting the engine and tender today and surely enough it needs lots of JB weld metal epoxy to make the bodies (locomotive and tender) strong enough to be handled without falling apart !   I will have to wait until Weds to buy lots of JB weld epoxy as that's when we get paid then start doing some serious work on this poor budget Hudson.  Soon I will post pictures tonight (my time). UP-DATE... I been really busy this evening oh boy !! I had to re-tap the hole to the next size to 4-40 by 3/4" long machine screw as the original trailing truck boss hole was drilled at a angle at the factory !!  The trailing truck was binding when checking for clearances on the curve because of the screw that was crooked !!.   I am just started working on it as the first evening but have a long way to go!

THANK YOU SO MUCH DON !!!

"But if we confess our sins, God will forgive us. We can trust God to do this. He always does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrong things we have done" 1John 1:9 ERV (Easy to Read version)

Tiffany

Tiffany posted:

Hello guys and gals

Does anyone have a Williams 1984 catalog where this early Dreyfuss Hudson is listed in ?   I am curious what it looked like in the catalog back then and perhaps take picture of it and post it here ?

 

As far as I know Williams did not made any catalogs in these years; I remember only adverts in Model Railroader with not very detailed black and white pictures for the 2 NYC Hudsons (Dreyfuss and non-streamlined) they made. I think the first nice catalog picture for Williams brass 3-rail was made for the PRR K4s in 1985/6 in this flyer. Later (1987 and on for some years) Williams trains were cataloged as part of the MTH tinplate catalogue, but the Hudsons were not in these catalogs.

Regards

Fred

Besides the pilot what else do you need all the epoxy for? From the pics the rest appears to be OK.

Pete

It looks good to me. And it does look like the same version as mine. Good luck!

The Williams Dreyfuss Hudson we used at the Bergen County Model Railroad club in the 1980s ( it is the same one you have) was beautiful but inaccurate versus the real engine. It looked so good we did not care about that. After all, we were 1980s 3-railers and thrilled just to have something different to run than Lionel repaints made from 1940s tooling.

Our problem was we could never get it to run right. It went back to Williams 8 times before we gave up and used it as a display piece for shows.

We did our own tweaking with the mechanism as well, but we never could get it to run well enough to use at shows reliably. Other owners of the Dreyfuss Hudson during the same time frame told us the basically the same thing with their experiences with the engine.  Later Williams brass engines corrected the reliability problems with the mechanisms of  the first two Hudsons  Samhongsa made for the company,  and their later brass steamers were accurate in outline and good runners.

I am going to guess from your e mail that you got your Dreyfess for a great price.  In that case, it is worth trying to get to that shiny gray beauty to run right because it is such a good looking steamer. the brass Dreyfuss  was important to the hobby because it was a step along the way to different and more realistic 3-rail engines.

I am writing this because after all these years that engine still provokes a strong emotional response.

Anyway, have fun reviving it.

Ed Boyle

When the 2 NYC Hudsons (Dreyfuss and non-streamlined) were advertised by Williams in 1984 I ordered both. They were nice engines running well on my then small 3-rail layout. When a couple of years later Weaver announced their Dreyfuss Hudson I thought this looked much better and I sold the Williams and "upgraded" to the Weaver version. The non-streamlined Williams Hudson I kept and it is still running well without any maintenance, making a special sound every now and then.

Regards

Fred

Ed when Tiffany gets her loco running you should send her your shelf queen. I bet she can fix it for you. Don

Norton posted:

Besides the pilot what else do you need all the epoxy for? From the pics the rest appears to be OK.

Pete

Hello Norton......

Well I thought that the other parts would come apart and so I wanted to make it stronger by putting epoxy on the soldered seams INSIDE the boiler and tender body.  The tender steps are looses and the 2 plates that was soldered inside the tender body which the solder has broken off and is still on the frame. I thought this might be a chance for other soldered on parts to come off.   I was planning to put the Dallee e-unit inside the engine boiler (don't need sounds) so I can epoxy the tender body to the frame. There will be more pictures coming and will post in this thread.  If you have more questions or ideas please let me know.

"But If we confess our sins, God will forgive us. We can trust God to do this. He always does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrong things we have done." 1 John 1:9 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Hello guys and gals........

I did some work today, removed the motor and gearbox out and hooked up the motor to run freely to "seat" the bearings and brushes on MRC D.C. pack for 5 minutes each direction for total of half hour. I took the gearbox apart to clean out the old grease, added new trust washer on the worm shaft , added fresh Red N Tacky then reassembled the gearbox and motor back on the frame.  I hook it up again on D.C. pack and gave it a spin for half hour forward and backward. It is running for first time since 1984, No mechanical bindings looking good so far. here are the pictures !!!

"But God is being patient with you. He doesn't want anyone to be lost. He wants everyone to change their ways and stop sinning" 2 Peter 3:9 ERV (Easy to Read version)

Tiffany

Hello Tiffany

That Williams Hudson, I am certain, is happy to be in your care. Thank you for posting photos. Good luck with your project. Keep us posted, y'hear?

Around 1990, Williams offered superb brass locomotives with excellent details and smooooth, reliable drivetrains, as Ed Boyle posted.

One of them was a NYC Niagara. It looked sleek and elegant and it ran like a Hamilton watch. I hope you can fine one to keep your Hudson company. And if someone had installed a QSI sound system around that time, it may have a special feature. Click on this link

ReadingFan posted:

Hello Tiffany

That Williams Hudson, I am certain, is happy to be in your care. Thank you for posting photos. Good luck with your project. Keep us posted, y'hear?

Around 1990, Williams offered superb brass locomotives with excellent details and smooooth, reliable drivetrains, as Ed Boyle posted.

One of them was a NYC Niagara. It looked sleek and elegant and it ran like a Hamilton watch. I hope you can fine one to keep your Hudson company. And if someone had installed a QSI sound system around that time, it may have a special feature. Click on this link

Hello ReadingFan...

Thank you sir !!   I have long way to go to finish it.  I still have valve gear work as Williams assembled it very sloppy so I will try to tighten up the slop and main rod/ piston work too.   There will be more pictures coming.   I am starting to REALLY like this Hudson and felt sorry for it when it was poorly assembled and soldered.  Two parts came apart this evening which is the bottom plate of the cylinder block (the plate hold the cylinder block on the frame) and other part long straight strip holds the valve gear assembly in the rear.   I have my work cut out for me and hoping to finish rebuilding this Hudson by the end of March or sooner then comes painting.  I will try my best to nurse this poor engine back on the rails.  The motor and gearbox is good and running that part is done my goodness !!!

"Give the Lord a chance to show how good he is. Great blessing belong to those who depend on him!" Psalm 34:8 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany

I will try my best to nurse this poor engine back on the rails.  The motor and gearbox is good and running that part is done my goodness !!!

That's good news. I wish you well.

ReadingFan posted:

 

One of them was a NYC Niagara. It looked sleek and elegant and it ran like a Hamilton watch. I hope you can fine one to keep your Hudson company. And if someone had installed a QSI sound system around that time, it may have a special feature. Click on this link

That is neat!

hello guy and gals

When I received this early Dreyfuss Hudson, it didn't have boiler lead weight.  Did early brass Williams models come without lead weights ?

"God, create a pure heart in me, and make my sprint strong again.  Your help made me so happy.  Give me that joy again. Make my spirit strong and ready to obey you. Psalm 51:10, 12 ERV (easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

I had the catalog for 1984 or thereabouts but I can't find it. It had both Hudsons, a peculiar Shark AB combo in NYC and Penn and lots of other things. I have the regular Hudson but haven't run it in years. A couple of guys were adding flywheels and I had that installed. It ran fairly well but I had trouble keeping the front truck on the track.

Tiffany posted:

 

When I received this early Dreyfuss Hudson, it didn't have boiler lead weight.  Did early brass Williams models come without lead weights ?

 

My non-streamlined Williams Hudson from 1984 came without a boiler weight and was bought new in 1984. It has a screw-hole which might be there to add a boiler weight. I do not have the Dreyfuss Hudson anymore but I assume that also came without a boiler weight.

Regards

Fred

hello guys and gals..(up-date 3/5/17)

I have more pictures coming and will post them here this evening.  I was sick for few days from mild food poisoning (peanuts) who knew ?  I have done more epoxy work on both engine and tender bodies, replaced the rear plastic coupler with all metal one, tender side frame ( it was bend and caused the wheel sets to fall out rather easy), got a new Dallee # 400 e-unit but not installed just yet.  The tender body was falling apart but able to save it, so much from bad soldering my goodness !!  Let the pictures speak for themselives and if any questions please ask.  I  noticed that my Wal-mart tablet is not too good in taking larger pictures but it the best I could do for a 79.00 tablet LOL. Guys... I would  very much paint the whole Williams train in "The Royal Blue" colors like forum member BANJOFLYER's  American flyer The Royal Blue train.  I will be receiving a 99.00 dollar 4 car Williams 15 inch aluminum passenger cars soon to be pull by this Dreyfuss Hudson.

"God, create a pure heart in me, and make my spirit strong again. Your help made me so happy. Give me that joy again. Make my spirit strong and ready to obey you." Psalm 51:10,12 ERV (Easy to read Version)

Tiffany

Tiffany, if there is no boiler weight, then that's the way it came. I never could run it so nothing was ever changed. 90% of the time it was in a box. Something would fall off if I pulled it out. Good luck. Don

scale rail posted:

Tiffany, if there is no boiler weight, then that's the way it came. I never could run it so nothing was ever changed. 90% of the time it was in a box. Something would fall off if I pulled it out. Good luck. Don

 

Hello Don

I guess Williams never included boiler weights in their early years Williams brass locomotives.  But that is not a problem, I can add on "stick on weights" in the boiler.  I think that explains why the front driver having traction tires like the rear one does. Its not a problem.

"Give the Lord a chance to show you how good he is.  Great blessings belong to those who depend on him !" Psalm 34:8 ERV(Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Tiffany, I have a Pittman can motor from an MTH loco that has a flywheel, if you would be interested. The price is right, just cover the shipping. If you wish I could take a couple photos with measurements so you could see if you would benefit from it. My email is in my profile. 

Train Doctor posted:

Tiffany, I have a Pittman can motor from an MTH loco that has a flywheel, if you would be interested. The price is right, just cover the shipping. If you wish I could take a couple photos with measurements so you could see if you would benefit from it. My email is in my profile. 

Hello Train Doctor

Oh yes!!!, I could use a BETTER motor for it.  This Hudson deserves every chance it can get !!  The can motor that's on the frame now is size of 37 MM Dia. X 57 MM long.   Mounting screw holes spacing is about 25.4 MM.  Many Thanks !!!  I will send you E-mail right away!!!  (up-date, E-mail sent. )

"I will shout for joy, singing songs of praise to you for saving me." Psalm 71:23 ERV (easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Hello guys and gals.......

Is Evan's still in business ? I am thinking of using a large 8MM LED warm white and 2 wire hook up (pick-ups and chassis) for headlight for this Hudson. The headlight hole Dia. is about 8.5 MM.  This Dreyfuss Hudson never came with a light bulb !!  Does Evans still sell those or someone else does ?  Is there such a thing ?

"What you should want most is God's kingdom and doing what he wants you to do.  Then he will give you all these other things you need." Matthew 6:33 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

AMCDave posted:

Pretty sure I have the same loco.

As a runner mine needed nothing but a little cleaning and oil. It's all metal drive IIRC and while simple....a great model. 

All my issues were with the locos looks. I added tender skirts, air pumps under the nose, NYC shield and new decals as the original were paper stickers. 

The end result.......you should with any luck have a great loco no matter if you leave it alone or rework it. 

Hello AMCDave

I need to add a pair of air pumps casting, where can I get them ?  I would like to add them to my Dreyfuss  Husdon too and fill in the gap on the front of the cylinder block and cow catcher.

Jesus answered -"Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But anyone who drinks the water I give will never be thirsty again. The water I give people will be like a spring flowing inside them. It will bring them eternal life." John 4:13-14 ERV (Easy to Read version)

Tiffany

I got mine from Bowser Trains under their Selley O scale line of white metal castings. Good folks to buy from. I did slightly trim the front top of the pumps to get them to fit as prototype. Good luck! 

Tiffany, I was at one time a Williams, MPC Lionel, dealer in the 70s. Just found a box of old catalogs and flyers from Williams. I don't think this was your Hudson but the better and second run of the engine. Look at the price. Remember this was is the 70's. Don

scale rail posted:

Tiffany, I was at one time a Williams, MPC Lionel, dealer in the 70s. Just found a box of old catalogs and flyers from Williams. I don't think this was your Hudson but the better and second run of the engine. Look at the price. Remember this was is the 70's. Don

Aloha Don .......

My goodness !!! that is a LOT of money back those days and I could have bought a LOT of shoes for that price too !!

"When I heard your voice, the baby inside me jumped with joy." Luke 1:44 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

The brass freight cars came out in about 91 so I suspect that is the date for the Hudson.

Tiffany posted:

scale rail posted:

Tiffany, I was at one time a Williams, MPC Lionel, dealer in the 70s. Just found a box of old catalogs and flyers from Williams. I don't think this was your Hudson but the better and second run of the engine. Look at the price. Remember this was is the 70's. Don

Aloha Don .......

My goodness !!! that is a LOT of money back those days and I could have bought a LOT of shoes for that price too !!

"When I heard your voice, the baby inside me jumped with joy." Luke 1:44 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

 

That engine is identical to the Lionel Smithsonian Hudson by the same builder. Its a bargain compared to the Lionel engine. Consider the remake of the diecast 700E at about the same time retailed for around $1500.

Pete

Pete they offered a UP Challenger and had a early order program that ended April 30 1995. There is no date on the catalog so I'm guessing these last Hudson's were maybe made the year before as they say there is only 10 left. Don

As late as 1989, the Williams SP Daylight was delivered without a boiler weight. I installed a cylindrical lead weight over the drivers that had been a reed block on an organ pipe, as it fit in the boiler nicely. Performance improvement was dramatic, so I called Andy Edelman, then with Williams, to inquire why they hadn’t included one. He said they had omitted weights because they feared these larger engines would be run too fast by kids, and the detail parts would be damaged when the loco rolled  over on a curve. I didn’t quite get it then, but I do now in light of the solder problems they apparently had with some earlier brass locos as mentioned in this thread.

Hello guys and gals........

I have done some more work on the Hudson this week and will post pictures in hour or so tonight.  The work I did  is repairing and epoxy the rear tender steps back on the frame,  made new thicker brass draw bar out of brass stock,  did some valve gear hanger work and back on the engine frame but took some adjusting to make it square to the frame as it was a mess because the factory drilled holes for it was off center thus make it crooked !!!,  Few other things done all this week.   I received my 99 dollar 4 car Williams aluminum passenger cars last Thursday and looks natural behind the Dreyfuss Hudson.  The cars are very well painted, but was not in "NYC" (they were out of stock) so choose the "Burlington" its really NICE and too nice to repaint them so I will just repaint the engine and tender to simple silver or aluminum color paint and decaled to "Blackhawk" Burlington route colors to keep the cost down and match it to the pass. cars.  Here are the photos guys.....

"Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But anyone who drinks the water I give will never be thirsty again." John 4:13 - 14 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Hello guys and gals.......

I been working on the Hudson's drawbar pin and shorten the tender draw bar for 072 curves this week.   I found out on testing the chassis on 031 and kind looks really bad when the rear cab swings too far out on the curves and decided to run it on 072 and looks lot better !!!      I am still waiting for the Pittman motor from the Train Doctor and when I receive the motor and will install it and put new Dallee E-unit on the frame.     Most of the mechanical work is done and what's left is the wiring, installing the Pittman motor and E-unit and LED for head light.    I am asking for help in picking the RIGHT color of silver or aluminum color paint that will match the Williams Burlington passenger cars I got almost 2 weeks ago.    The reason I took picture of the Visa Dome car as posted above and cannot tell if it is silver or aluminum color paint.   The cars are painted as upon close look, I see orange peels so it is painted.   I will be painting the just the engine and tender and decal it to match the cars in March (I meant April) my bad.   More pictures coming soon guys !!! ( up-date 3/19/2017) I will post pictures in half hour today !!  Guys, I didn't do much as I've been tired all last week and still waiting to hear from the train Doctor (Luke) about the shipping cost for the Pittman motor.   There is not much left to do except to paint.  I am afraid that the gearbox will not last long due to fact that ALL the gears including the worm is brass so I will check out gearbox replacement from NWSL guys.  The gear box is in good condition so I can run it in mean time and probably get a new gear box for it in few months.

"When I heard your voice, the baby inside me jumped with joy." Luke 1:44 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany

Tiffany, why don't you re-decal the passenger car into New York Central? That would be easy and look fine. Don

scale rail posted:

Tiffany, way don't you re-decal the passenger car into New York Central? That would be easy and look fine. Don

I agree. I lettered this RDC RPO with Evans Hobby Cal. Easy Peasy with an inkjet printer.

Pete

scale rail posted:

Tiffany, way don't you re-decal the passenger car into New York Central? That would be easy and look fine. Don

Aloha Don.........

That looks easy to do !!  I thought the New York Central cars had to be painted gray and with gray pin stripes in middle like on the tender as that's a lot of painting work on 6 cars. The names "Burlington" and "Blackhawk" are tempo printed on the cars so how do remove that without having to repaint the cars ?  I do love the 20th limited paint style 2 tone gray and blue pin stripes but paying a pro-painter to paint the engine and tender plus 6 cars is probably out of my budget wise.  I am not a pro-painter like that but can do simple good paint jobs without messing up.   I can paint strips of brass and put NYC decals on the strips and epoxy the strips over the "Burlington and Blackhawk" names like the picture above and to leave the painted cars alone as that is a GOOD idea !!!   But still have to repaint the engine and tender though.   I just wanted to paint the train to look like postwar lionel would do, after all the Williams aluminum cars are lionel copies and the Williams early Hudson looks some what like a toy train and looks right at home with the aluminum 15 inch cars.  I DO love "postwar" style toy train look.  Should renumber the engine like #773,763,777 or 700 ?    MPC Lionel did use the numbers of 784, 783 black and 785 gray ,700-1 Hudsons  since this engine is a streamliner will # 793 look right for this engine ?   If you have some more ideas let's hear them

" It is true that you planed to do something bad to me. But really , God was planning good things. God's plan was to use me to save the lives of many people. And that is what happened." Genesis 50:20 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany