Messing with Some Vintage HO Stuff....

I enjoy pulling out my vintage stuff every now and then and oogling them, too. My HO "collectables" () are primarily "Lindberg Line" items.

Now, I do have some HO vintage cars that are in service on my layout, running among the Athearn, MDC, Atlas, and what have you. They look fine mixed in among them.

Some of them I purchased because I had them as a lad... others I purchased because... well... because I liked 'em!

Here's a string of three Varney  tinplate cars:

Andre

You guys know that Stevenson Preservation did a Varney boxcar underbody in brass for me?    They shrunk slightly, but they will never crumble or warp.  He has the master.

Mark, Andre, thanks for sharing a token of your HO memories with OGR members.  How many of us Old Heads made the switch from tinplate to HO starting in the mid-50s and beyond?  I was no exception.  My first venture was to purchase a Revell HO scale catalog from a bicycle dealer in Dallas Oak Cliff in 1956.  I paid a whopping 10 cents for it.

A great site to stir up those HO memories is www.hoseeker.net   It can be summed up in one word:  WOW!

Joe

Joe:

Yup, I went from a Marx 3-rail 25225 set to my first scale HO "Lindberg Lines" set in Christmas of '62. I've pretty much been in HO in some form ever since. Here's a picture of my current Linberg Lines set that was just like the one I received back in '62. Here's the box cover:

And here's the set:

I was wowed by my original set like this one way back in '62. I loved the fact that the cars looked like cars I saw around KC (the above cars are actually painted in flat paint and in railroad schemes), and I liked that it had a switch engine similar to what I could see in KC. I was hooked into scale model railroading with the above set.

Andre

Andre:

I well remember the Lindberg Line.  Their SW1 really blew my mind when it was announced in the model magazines.  Revell's SW7, like the Lindberg SW1, featured pretty good detail for the time.

I well understand why you have made the decision to return to HO in lieu of S scale.

When time permits, please update your Kansas City & Gulf page.

Joe

HO is but a memory for me now, but I have retained some of my favorites.

I guess these would classify as vintage nowadays.  My PFM Russian Decapod.  I bought this at Pro Custom Hobbies in 1977 during the NMRA convention.  It was probably a 5-10 year old locomotive at that time:

I prefer it over the current Bachmann versions.

My AHM 0-4-0T, I can't recall when I picked it up, probably in the early 1970's:

I think there used to be a law in Model Railroading back then that everyone had to own a so-called "Docksider" at some time in their lives.

Unfortunately, my Lindberg SW1 has gone to Val-Halla, the frame had deteriorated beyond repair, so it only exists in a photo:

My crude paint job was for the Manufactures Junction Railway, a 1-1/2 mile long railroad that switched the Western Electric plant in Cicero, IL.

Rusty

Rusty:  Love the PFM 2-10-0 Russian Decapod.  I well remember when PFM introduced their sound system too.  If I recall, it was a big hit at Hall's Hobby House in Dallas.  I'll have to ask one time part time employee Steele Craver though.  My how times have changed, including prices.

Thanks for sharing your treasures.  What caused your Lindberg SW1 frame to give up the ghost?

Joe

I'll throw down a loop and run my two Rivrossi steamers occasionally. NYC Hudson, and PRR Y6-b. They see occasional Christmas tree duty as well.

I got the Hudson when I was about 10 ('72), and the Y6 several  years later. I ran the wheels off of the Hudson but the Y6 is like new. I've replaced the motors in both (hard to find btw), and the worm gear case on the Hudson.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

  What caused your Lindberg SW1 frame to give up the ghost?

Joe

The legendary zinc pest.  I had two mid-1970's Athearn U30C's with the same problem.

@RSJB18 posted:

I'll throw down a loop and run my two Rivrossi steamers occasionally. NYC Hudson, and PRR Y6-b. They see occasional Christmas tree duty as well.

I got the Hudson when I was about 10 ('72), and the Y6 several  years later. I ran the wheels off of the Hudson but the Y6 is like new. I've replaced the motors in both (hard to find btw), and the worm gear case on the Hudson.

I still have two 1970's vintage AHM/Rivarrossi's, but they didn't escape my razor saw and X-acto knife.

Underneath the SP style shroud lies an ex-NKP Berkshire:

And had I known the B&O "Big Six" 2-10-2 would become a rare bird, I might not have modified one:

Rusty

Wow.  Great looking locomotives. Beats the heck out of anything I owned when I had a big HO layout.

I am currently trying to install a small oval of HO track, inside one part of the figure 8 in my O gauge layout.  I plan to run an HO Gandy Dancer Handcar on it.   My little oval has 12R curves (24 inch diameter curves).  I have ordered the Handcar, and hope that that tiny short wheelbase loco can make it around those tight curves.

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

Wow.  Great looking locomotives. Beats the heck out of anything I owned when I had a big HO layout.

I am currently trying to install a small oval of HO track, inside one part of the figure 8 in my O gauge layout.  I plan to run an HO Gandy Dancer Handcar on it.   My little oval has 12R curves (24 inch diameter curves).  I have ordered the Handcar, and hope that that tiny short wheelbase loco can make it around those tight curves.

Mannyrock

Should be no problem.  Tyco once made 4-1/2" radius street car track for their trolley, which had a longer wheelbase than your handcar.

Rusty

It appears that I wasn't the only one to get their first taste of "scale" model trains in HO. Rusty, you did a terrific job on that "Big 6", and I remember making a few purchases (by mail, of course) from Pro Custom Hobbies.

Sometimes I think that the 20 years I spent in HO (1970-1990) were particularly good ones for the scale: there was still a focus on assembling stuff yourself, with lots of kit-bashing going on and parts available. And who didn't LOVE those cool Ulrich truck models? 😊

Mark in Oregon

How many of you Old Heads (Gads, I'm one now as well; havingj passed Milepost 75 on 7/4/2021) shopped at Woolco in the late 60s/early 70s and purchased AHM HO train products?  The Woolco in Irving, TX even had an employee who was a model railroader.  He moved lots of AHM for them.  I don't think the store posed a problem for Hall's Hobby House in Dallas, but you could sure save a lot of $$$ if you shopped at that Woolco in Irving, w/o having to pay retail at Miss Hall's.

Even today if I were to re-enter the hobby I would probably model in HO again (my O and S scale study didn't give me the thrill I thought it would) and look for nice price like new Rivarossi products.  The Union Pacific Big Boy comes to mind.  To enhance the roster, the plastic Revell (marketed in Europe) Big Boy kits are perfect for a roundhouse scene w/o dropping lots of $$$ for additional powered models.  That would be overkill insofar as they wouldn't be operated but only serve as static models at best.

Rusty:  I hit the like button regarding the zinc pest problem you encountered in your reply to my question.  NOT because of zinc pest issue but as a thank you for answering.

Joe

As I mentioned before, I have a Rivarossi/AHM "Big 6" in which the entire boiler weight was infected with the zinc issue. Since that weight was somehow tied in with the drive mechanism (I don't remember exactly how), it rendered the engine inoperable. Fortunately, I was able to find a replacement piece on eBay...

Rusty: you also did a great job on that Berkshire, by the way...🙂

Mark in Oregon

I still have a 1x8 foot switching layout from back in the ‘80’s, and a 4x8’ layout that was a remnant of a much bigger layout that I was building before I reverted back to my 3 rail days and finished my 5x9 layout. Here’s some shots of the unfinished 4x8, and the switching layout. I still occasionally run both layouts.

The switching layout ( complete with an old Varney metal reefer, and custom painted Athearn SW8. The 1st and 2nd photos show the 4x8’.

@laming posted:

I enjoy pulling out my vintage stuff every now and then and oogling them, too. My HO "collectables" () are primarily "Lindberg Line" items.

Now, I do have some HO vintage cars that are in service on my layout, running among the Athearn, MDC, Atlas, and what have you. They look fine mixed in among them.

Some of them I purchased because I had them as a lad... others I purchased because... well... because I liked 'em!

Here's a string of three Varney  tinplate cars:

Andre

Those Varney "Tinplate" cars to me look more realistic than a lot of modern offerings.  Gordon Varney was a master of decoration for the era these cars were made.  I have quite a bit of Varney, but between my Uncle and my Father, they have nearly every piece made by Varney post war.  Their diesel locomotives were not the best runners after Varney and Lindberg parted ways, but still fun to work on.  The steam locomotives could be made to run like clockwork when built well though.

I agree, Jonathan. That same yellow ART reefer is on the left side of my switching layout spotted at the warehouse. I have only a few vintage cars on my layout, but the detail is almost as good as some of my scale built kits. Here is a closer shot, along with a weathered Varney plastic flat that I think looks credible with some weathering.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

How many of you Old Heads (Gads, I'm one now as well; havingj passed Milepost 75 on 7/4/2021) shopped at Woolco in the late 60s/early 70s and purchased AHM HO train products?  The Woolco in Irving, TX even had an employee who was a model railroader.  He moved lots of AHM for them.  I don't think the store posed a problem for Hall's Hobby House in Dallas, but you could sure save a lot of $$$ if you shopped at that Woolco in Irving, w/o having to pay retail at Miss Hall's.

Even today if I were to re-enter the hobby I would probably model in HO again (my O and S scale study didn't give me the thrill I thought it would) and look for nice price like new Rivarossi products.  The Union Pacific Big Boy comes to mind.  To enhance the roster, the plastic Revell (marketed in Europe) Big Boy kits are perfect for a roundhouse scene w/o dropping lots of $$$ for additional powered models.  That would be overkill insofar as they wouldn't be operated but only serve as static models at best.

Rusty:  I hit the like button regarding the zinc pest problem you encountered in your reply to my question.  NOT because of zinc pest issue but as a thank you for answering.

Joe

Back in the 70's purchased many AHM items at various F.W. Woolworths in NYC and Long Island.  My prize score was on a post Christmas clearance - a Rivarossi Tuscan GG-1 and full set of smooth side Tuscan passenger cars. 

Here's a couple more late 70's AHM/Rivarossi and purchased from Woolworth's.  I remember the check-out clerk asking me why something so small cost so much. (A princely 22 bucks each at the time.  I think they MSRP'd around $40-$45.00 in 1979...)

The Santa Fe 91 is pretty much stock, but I painted the red wheels and pilot black because they looked too cheezy to me:

The Reno repainted for my private road at the time, Seattle Tacoma & Portland:

Same for the Genoa:

Still got 'em, buried somewhere in a plastic bin.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

The legendary zinc pest.  I had two mid-1970's Athearn U30C's with the same problem.

Rusty

Replies...

Joe:

Purchasing AHM at Woolco's? Yup! I recall them clearing them out at .99 cents a car.

Jonathan:

Yup. Like I mentioned, they blend in nicely among the other rolling stock.

Artie:

Nice switching layout, Artie!!

Rusty:

Excellent work on the AHM modern steam. Nice work on the AHM 4-4-0's, too!

Andre

@taycotrains posted:

This got me out of my chair to check the frames of the two Lindberg service station floor plan kits that I own...surprisingly all six of the replacement frames show no sign of rot !

I probably wouldn't panic.   As I mentioned, I also had two Athearn locomotives with the same affliction, but the others I've retained from the 70's are fine.  It's just unfortunate I only had one Lindberg locomotive and it had it.

Rusty

Some of my HO collectibles:

My favorite cab controller:

1960's vintage AHM / Life Like Cast GG1

Walthers Commuter Coach

Penn line cast metal commuter cars circa 1955

Heavily reworked MDC E6.

1947 Walthers HH660

Hobbytown E7 set hand painted by the original owner (not me).  The A & B are permanently attached.

Import brass Japanese switcher circa 1960's.

Varney 60' coach

1947 Cast Varney F3 I custom painted for my Uncle in 1996.

Nice... that E6 is terrific; Bowser/ Penn Line tender?

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Nice... that E6 is terrific; Bowser/ Penn Line tender?

Mark in Oregon

Great call!  Yes.  It is a Bowser Tender. 

Thanks, Andre.

Here’s a later version of the MRC hand held. Nice collection of vintage stuff, Jonathan!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Some of my HO collectibles:

1960's vintage AHM / Life Like Cast GG1

1947 Walthers HH660

Hobbytown E7 set hand painted by the original owner (not me).  The A & B are permanently attached.

That AHM GG1 if it is cast metal is probably Penn Line (or one of its predecessors/successors). I had several that I was going to combine using various pieces/parts to make an all-wheel/dual-powered one including some optional manufacturer-supplied weights. Unfortunately, the project box got lost during my move.

I have one of those HH600s that I (one day) plan to put an Athearn SW drive into. The Walthers shell is cast out of lead or a heavy lead alloy so this thing should be a real beast when completed. Note that I thought about the Atlas S1 but the drive would have required too much modification.

The E8 reminded me that I had gotten a silver CB&Q E5 from ebay listed as Hobbytown but it turned out to be a Carey shell on a Model Power chassis. Still for the price that I paid, I am not complaining; and it is HEAVY!  Just a little bit of shell-fitting remains to be done to complete the project; oh, and mount a coupler on the rear.

I do enjoy looking at all this vintage stuff.

@PRRMP54 posted:

That AHM GG1 if it is cast metal is probably Penn Line (or one of its predecessors/successors). I had several that I was going to combine using various pieces/parts to make an all-wheel/dual-powered one including some optional manufacturer-supplied weights. Unfortunately, the project box got lost during my move.

Interesting story about the cast GG1.  Around 1995 I had a very nice conversation with Lou English Senior of Bowser regarding vintage GG1s.  He helped me identify my first of what would be three George Stock HO GG1s that were cast brass and scale length if not a bit rough in my collection.  When I mentioned the Varney / Life Like / GHC / AHM GG1 he was quick to correct me that it was not the Penn Line tooling, but rather a Japanese copy of the tooling.  Having 6 of these GG1s now, he was absolutely correct.  The parts are not interchangeable except in a few instances.  The original Penn Line GG1 with road number 4917 has a different drive mechanism.   

Sadly my 1955 Penn Line original bit the dust traveling to Asia and back as it was the sample for Tuscan red on Sunsets GG1 project of 2009 which was how I got affiliated with Scott Mann through Bob Heil in the first place.  One day I will get a replacement for it.

@bob2 posted:

You guys know that Stevenson Preservation did a Varney boxcar underbody in brass for me?    They shrunk slightly, but they will never crumble or warp.  He has the master.

That's right, I almost forgot that among all those beautiful O scale models you have sits some early (?) HO... 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Hey GG! 4877, I still have the MRC hand held controller. I agree with you. And at the time it was the best way to control DC engines. Don't use it anymore and am thinking of selling it.

RAY

Here's another:

Pretty sure this is a Walther's kit, paired to a Suydam drive. The motor it came with was completely dead, so I was able to install a Mantua in its place:

It runs well enough, I suppose, but I'm not thrilled with the "wire drive belts": they seem to be very fussy to adjust. Anyone here have any hints on these?  

Mark in Oregon

Wow. Those vintage HO trains are impressive. I still have a small HO train collection with early 1990s-era Life Like and Bachmann locos and Life Like track. I just recently got the trains out, cleaned the track and wheels, and got all four of my locos operational. My oldest loco, a beat up Life Like UP GP38-2 High-Nose diesel, is almost 25 years old and it ran after a few minutes of cleaning and giving it power. The engine was my first electric train, and running it again brought back so many memories. This picture is not mine, but it shows the loco that I have. Externally, my loco is a bit beat up with missing parts, but it runs fine, so I'm happy.

I also had a Penn-Line GG1 for awhile, but it was a fussy runner, and I sold it off. I also had Athearn PA’s, Stewart F3 A &B units, Atlas RS3, and a Life Like Proto 2000 switcher, all in Erie Lackawanna dress. But, as I gravitated more toward my 3 rail, I gave some to a young friend who was just starting a layout, and sold off the rest to a local hobby shop.

All I have now, as far as motive power is a pair of Life Like Proto 2000 E8’s in DL&W, and an Atlas Alco Century in the early black/yellow EL scheme, and the previously mentioned Lackawanna switcher by Athearn, but with a Proto Power drive, and Northwest Short Line wheels.

@GG1 4877 posted:

1947 Walthers HH660

Whereas I TOTALLY "get" the appreciation for vintage HO (of which I also am a part of and of which I collect in a small scope), when it comes to enjoying trains, there is simply no comparison in regards to how far HO has evolved.

The above photo of a very historic (for the HO timeline) Walthers HH model can offer a startling look into the past when the identical contemporary offering is contrasted therewith. Here's a photo of an Atlas HH660:

The contrast is even more startling when you realize the above Atlas model can be had with factory installed DCC/Sound.

The early modelers in HO were truly pioneers that paved the way for what we enjoy today.

Andre

I still have such a soft spot for the crude beginnings of this hobby.  I'll take a lump of metal doorstop model over a fine scale HO model any day since I'm firmly rooted in OW5 now.  Not much actual value in it, but the historical value is priceless.

"Historic" was exactly what I was talking about.

Seeing as you're no longer active in owning and operating HO on a contemporary layout, I can understand your "not interested in the new stuff" sentiment.

As a practicing HO scale guy, I see value in both: The vintage and today's offerings. Most HO'ers do NOT see the value in both, instead only being interested in today's offerings.

Andre

Andre,

If I were still an HO operator, I would certainly want the latest and greatest.  My father purchased a few HO collections that he is now passing to me of just pre-DCC HO from the late 90's and the quality is very good. 

At the same time, my uncle has a layout that hasn't changed much since he built it in 1969 and he is currently using a Varney NW2, a Penn Line GG1, and a Penn Line K4 as the main power on each of the three mainlines and he has them running like clockwork.  The Penn Line items are new additions to his layout that he bought from an Allentown show about 5 years back.

Overall, though I don't see myself going back to HO as an operator.  If anything, I'll continue to operate my small collection of N.  That has come such a long way as well.

...and not all "vintage stuff" are locos...

This is a Suydam kit; I think it was the first thing I built after I moved to Oregon; late 1975...

Mark (still) in Oregon