New Lionel HO Scale Mikado ???

Do I need to post this in a different category.  Has no one any info on the series of Mikados Lionel released in HO?  Its a historic tooling dating back to the 50's and a diecast locomotive.  Assuming its the same as what Mantua offered.  Any mention of these has dropped off the face of the Earth.

The lack of information is an probably indication they are not out yet.  Unless Lionel's going to redesign the boiler, (it's pretty much solid Zamak except for the motor and headlight cavity)  all the electronics has to fit in the tender.

Lionel's version is not quite the same as the old Manuta Mike.  Lionel (and predecessor MRC) use the Pacific boiler on the Mikado chassis.  The old Mantua Mike had a beefier boiler.

Rusty

From the last information I read, maybe from Trainworld's site, the Mikados were cancelled.  A shame, since I was looking forward to what they did, if anything, with the Mantua tooling.

@Eddie Marra posted:

From the last information I read, maybe from Trainworld's site, the Mikados were cancelled.  A shame, since I was looking forward to what they did, if anything, with the Mantua tooling.

I wouldn't be surprised.  I don't think the Mantua steamers were a big seller for MRC.  The couple MRC Mantua's at my LHS had a long shelf life. Plus, one can still pick up original Mantua/Tyco locomotives on the secondary market for a lot less.

We'll have to see how the remainder of the MRC/Model Power HO sells for Lionel.

HO is a far more competitive market than O.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I wouldn't be surprised.  I don't think the Mantua steamers were a big seller for MRC.  The couple MRC Mantua's at my LHS had a long shelf life. Plus, one can still pick up original Mantua/Tyco locomotives on the secondary market for a lot less.

We'll have to see how the remainder of the MRC/Model Power HO sells for Lionel.

HO is a far more competitive market than O.

Rusty

I also had a few freight cars on order, and half of the ones I ordered were cancelled.  The ones I did get are very nice, a little crisper and sharper lettering than the Model Power versions.  The ones in my Nickel Plat freight set are of the same quality as well.

While I was curious about the Mikados to go along with the couple set Berkshires I have by Lionel, I didn't see much difference in those than the Mantua Mikes I have from the 1970's and 1980's.

Overall, I think Lionel needs to come down a little in price to compete with Bachmann if they want to get a beginner into HO railroading.  They're not going to pay $300.00 and up for a starter set.

@Rusty Traque posted:

The lack of information is an probably indication they are not out yet.  Unless Lionel's going to redesign the boiler, (it's pretty much solid Zamak except for the motor and headlight cavity)  all the electronics has to fit in the tender.

Lionel's version is not quite the same as the old Manuta Mike.  Lionel (and predecessor MRC) use the Pacific boiler on the Mikado chassis.  The old Mantua Mike had a beefier boiler.

Rusty

The Mantua Mike really didn't have a prototype unlike their Pacific which was based on the B&O presidential Pacifics. 

I would have to agree with others in that the originals can be had for very favorable prices.  The challenges I have seen is that many suffer from zine rot.  Several of mine have degraded over the years.  At least the ones that are old enough to have the cast cabs.  The later ones with plastic cabs don't seem to have the same issues.

I always wondered why starting in the late 80's Mantua got really pricey?  It wasn't like their quality was much better than the direct competition.  I really like the PRR E2 Atlantic they did later on as well as the 4-6-2 Camelback even if only the Lehigh Valley had one. 

@Eddie Marra posted:

Overall, I think Lionel needs to come down a little in price to compete with Bachmann if they want to get a beginner into HO railroading.  They're not going to pay $300.00 and up for a starter set.

Lionel has never had any real success in the HO market.  The Lionel brand carries little weight in the HO realm.  I suspect the HO line will fade away in a year or two.

@GG1 4877 posted:

The Mantua Mike really didn't have a prototype unlike their Pacific which was based on the B&O presidential Pacifics.

While definitely a generic locomotive, it is somewhat representative of a Western Pacific Mikado.  There is a certain charm about them.  I should think about getting back to the one I started working on years ago, (the metal tender is a Bowser/Varney.)

It's a good "blank slate" for folks that like to kitbash.  Back in the day, I knew one man that made a credible (with a lot of work) Santa Fe 3160 class Mikado and another that built up a CB&Q O2 Mikado out of Mantua Mikes.

Rusty

I will have to dig it out but I bought a Mantua Blue Comet in 1989 and it had the diecast loco with the pacific boiler as well.  I believe.   

In Reno for the 2019 LCCA Convention Lionel was very optimistic about HO.  I assumed their early test items proved well.   Polar Express in HO should be in every big box store.  But then shouldn't the O Gauge one too?   Side by side most will go for the cheaper hence cannibalizing Lionel's sales.  It would be cool to see a Marx, Tyco, Mantua collector series remake.  It may be silly to many here but those of use who grew up in the late 70's early 80's saw colorful Tyco, Bachmann, Model Power, AHM sets in every toy store and hobby shop.  I wanted them.  Quality was not that good but some 70's Tyco was still made in USA.  All are icons much like Lionel.  I wish Bachmann would bring back the fun sets like the Yard Boss with operating cars and buildings where the loco would drive a shaft in reverse to make the loader move on the platform.   Or Tyco transformer set.  Its VERY collectible now days in good condition.   That's the key.  I guarantee any Bachmann, Model Power, Life Like, Tyco set found sealed and having been dry stored and cared for will carry a nice premium.   I picked one up a while back. The rolling stock and set names are a stylized fantasy of everyday life at the time.  What kid wouldn't want a reefer full of Jell-O.

@Mike W. posted:

I will have to dig it out but I bought a Mantua Blue Comet in 1989 and it had the diecast loco with the pacific boiler as well.  I believe.   

In Reno for the 2019 LCCA Convention Lionel was very optimistic about HO.  I assumed their early test items proved well.   Polar Express in HO should be in every big box store.  But then shouldn't the O Gauge one too?   Side by side most will go for the cheaper hence cannibalizing Lionel's sales.  It would be cool to see a Marx, Tyco, Mantua collector series remake.  It may be silly to many here but those of use who grew up in the late 70's early 80's saw colorful Tyco, Bachmann, Model Power, AHM sets in every toy store and hobby shop.  I wanted them.  Quality was not that good but some 70's Tyco was still made in USA.  All are icons much like Lionel.  I wish Bachmann would bring back the fun sets like the Yard Boss with operating cars and buildings where the loco would drive a shaft in reverse to make the loader move on the platform.   Or Tyco transformer set.  Its VERY collectible now days in good condition.   That's the key.  I guarantee any Bachmann, Model Power, Life Like, Tyco set found sealed and having been dry stored and cared for will carry a nice premium.   I picked one up a while back. The rolling stock and set names are a stylized fantasy of everyday life at the time.  What kid wouldn't want a reefer full of Jell-O.

Even though the quality of the locos weren't the best, if maintained they would run for quite a while (I still have my first set, a Tyco Spirit of '76 diesel set, and with periodic cleaning and oil, it still runs great!)

In our old hobby shop, we couldn't keep the Tyco sets in long enough, because they were colorful, not too expensive and had TV ads!  The biggest seller was the Chattanooga steam set, but Tyco always had great sets and tons of color: Golden Eagle, Silver Streak, Comin' Round The Mountain, Midnight Special, Broadway Limited.

What's funny is that people went for those, but ignored the smaller Tyco sets like the steam switcher set, which had the really heavy duty 0-4-0 engine in it!

I guess the color and retro packaging are why people want them again.  I always loved them, because of those cars!  Your set is one of my favorites, because it documents Chattanooga's transition to diesel, but also those great cars: Jell-O, Old Dutch, Wesson, Baby Ruth!

were to ore cars cancelled ?

starting to get worried about the future of lionel HO

I'M switching to HO to save money but still want to stick mostly with the lionel brand

after seeing the o scale prices yikes!

Cody,

If you are switching to HO, you have a world of opportunities for very wonderful trains at favorable prices.  I wouldn't be so worried about brand.  Lionel in the HO world isn't anything special outside of those few who collect Lionel HO.  You can find non-command locomotives at swap meets for $20 or less and often find freight cars at only a few dollars.

I spent my first 30 years in this hobby in HO and there are days I wonder why I left it behind.  I still have a sizeable HO collection and always enjoyed operating my HO trains.  My father is an HO collector and has thousands of pieces and spent a lot less on his collection than my smaller O scale one. 

Just something to think about.  Athearn Blue Box cars and locomotives are where I got serious in HO and they are still good quality trains at very good prices.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Cody,

If you are switching to HO, you have a world of opportunities for very wonderful trains at favorable prices.  I wouldn't be so worried about brand.  Lionel in the HO world isn't anything special outside of those few who collect Lionel HO.  You can find non-command locomotives at swap meets for $20 or less and often find freight cars at only a few dollars.

I spent my first 30 years in this hobby in HO and there are days I wonder why I left it behind.  I still have a sizeable HO collection and always enjoyed operating my HO trains.  My father is an HO collector and has thousands of pieces and spent a lot less on his collection than my smaller O scale one.

Just something to think about.  Athearn Blue Box cars and locomotives are where I got serious in HO and they are still good quality trains at very good prices.

even dcc engines are not bad pricewise

looking on trainworld i saw some for around 200 bucks GP40's and stuff

a scale trains tier 4 online dcc and sound for around 300 bucks

Cody, just confirming what Jonathan wrote about not being overly focused on Lionel in HO. You don't often see the name there amid all the other players. I dusted off my HO layout after a break of decades and have purchased 7 new old stock locomotives, five of which are DCC, and paid from $60 to $85 each from an online hobby shop. All Bachmann, so a step down from Athearn. No sound, but I currently run them just DC anyway. Still great fun. They can have drive train issues, but they're affordable, are generally easily fixed, and look good. Even in O Gauge I readjusted what I want to what I can afford and am happy to get older locomotives such as Williams and Weaver for much less. Just without the "bells and whistles."

John