Blackwater Canyon Line - October 14, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

@Mark Boyce posted:

I didn't accomplish anything more, but I did receive a WiFi Interface Unit WIU from my not quite local hobby shop, McCormick's Hardware down in Zelienople.  I haven't opened the box yet.  My hands are having more trouble operating the remote, either the MTH or the TMCC variety.  I thought I would give it a try after a forum friend about 40 miles away got one and really likes it.

Mark- I've been using the LionChief app for a while and now the new Cab3 app. Using the phone instead of a remote is growing on me.

I'm also thinking of getting a Ipad mini or comparable Android tablet dedicated to train running. I think a larger screen would be better, and I don't like to tie up my phone when I'm running trains. A good case that allows me to hold it securely with one hand is a must as well. I've found that I'm using both hands more with the apps than I do with the remotes. Finally a mounting bracket that I will put at my control panel to hold the tablet when necessary.
Biggest drawback is that I need to look at the screen all the time when making adjustments.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- I've been using the LionChief app for a while and now the new Cab3 app. Using the phone instead of a remote is growing on me.

I'm also thinking of getting a Ipad mini or comparable Android tablet dedicated to train running. I think a larger screen would be better, and I don't like to tie up my phone when I'm running trains. A good case that allows me to hold it securely with one hand is a must as well. I've found that I'm using both hands more with the apps than I do with the remotes. Finally a mounting bracket that I will put at my control panel to hold the tablet when necessary.
Biggest drawback is that I need to look at the screen all the time when making adjustments.

Bob

Bob, excellent advice. This is the bracket set up I use for an iPad or iPhone. It’s a bit overkill but I had it kicking around for a few years not in use. I used to have it mounted on a drum stand for reading music.

Gene

@Genemed posted:

Bob, excellent advice. This is the bracket set up I use for an iPad or iPhone. It’s a bit overkill but I had it kicking around for a few years not in use. I used to have it mounted on a drum stand for reading music.

Gene

yea- the stand looks like a drummers equipment........

That's what I had in mind though.

Thank you, Bob, Gene!

Gene, I'm not at the stage of setting up a professional looking control center like you have!  Looks great!

Bob, the app should be great, now that I figured out my problem.  I found on the Forum search this thread.

https://ogrforum.com/...-working-mth-dcs-wiu

It appears I have a short somewhere connecting the wiring from the two TIU channels together.

Here is what I posted on that thread:  "I just bought a WIU and it timed out trying to find an engine with the app on what I thought was an isolated track section.  It always timed out, but I could start the engine with the remote.  I disconnected the TIU from layout wiring and jumpered directly from the TIU output to a section of track on the floor with an engine on it.  The app found the engine right away and operate functions from the app.  Interesting, when I connected the TIU output back to the layout wiring and placed the engine back on the layout, I could start the engine with the app right off.  Looks like I have some wiring troubleshooting to do." 

OGR Forum Search is your friend!! 

If it's not one thing, it's another..... 😁😁

Ain’t it the truth, Bob? Ain’t it the truth!

I wonder how long it has been this way?  Since I reconfigured the layout with the two loops and ramps and never noticed it??  🤷‍♂️  

A supervisor I worked for way back used to say when there was a trouble, “Has anything been disturbed?”  I’m going to have to do some thinking and looking over my documentation before I do anything.  Everything works no matter which or how many track sections I have powered.  Everything, except adding an engine with the app.  Even Barry commented on this problem with the app that doesn’t show up with the remote.  😄

I added a few more engines to the app.  Quite easy now.  I will have to look into adding switches and track power sections at a later time.

Back to my church mock-up.  I decided to ‘raise the roof’ as opposed to making another mock-up.  No sense cutting up more card stock.  I added one inch which makes the top the same height as when I had the original configuration setting on Homasote.

It isn’t as squat as the prototype, but will be a good representation without taking up too much precious real estate.

I was thinking about making a core out of foam board which I have on hand and covering it with the Plastruct brick product Chris suggested.  For windows, I could adjust the size of the prototype and print on vellum as Jeff suggested.  I will have to look for appropriate frames, though it is possible I could make them, since they are pretty simple.

Mark:

I have 8 1/2" x 11" Overhead projector transparencies. What i have done for stained glass windows is the print all of the images that you want on white paper. Then using the white paper image as your master, take the transparency and the paper to a store like Office Depot. On a color copier, put the transparency in the paper-feed tray and place your and do a color copy of your original image that is on a paper. You will still have to spray the finished transparency with something like Testors Gloss Cote when you get it home. If you need transparencies, I can mail you several if you contact me at the E-Mail address in my profile.

Also, take another photo of the window but make sure that the photo is taken straight-on. Due to the angle of the shot, the photo that you posted was taken slightly off to one side of the window.

I am REALLY looking forward to your finished model.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Ain’t it the truth, Bob? Ain’t it the truth!

I wonder how long it has been this way?  Since I reconfigured the layout with the two loops and ramps and never noticed it??  🤷‍♂️  

A supervisor I worked for way back used to say when there was a trouble, “Has anything been disturbed?”  I’m going to have to do some thinking and looking over my documentation before I do anything.  Everything works no matter which or how many track sections I have powered.  Everything, except adding an engine with the app.  Even Barry commented on this problem with the app that doesn’t show up with the remote.  😄

It certainly is Mark. Thinking out loud here, but why not just make a programing track ( a couple track sections on a board), and connect it to the WIU when needed. If I read your response right, the engines worked fine on the layout once programmed?
Unless something obvious pops out at you then why kill yourself......

The taller church looks good. I think you're off to a good start.

Bob

Thank you, Randy, Bob!

Randy, that is a nice idea for printing the windows.  We had a bunch of transparency sheets, but my wife took them to the thrift store because we thought we would never use them.  I took a better photograph of the window this morning.  The stained wood is part of a frame that encases the window in protective glass.  The exterior frames were all painted white.

Bob, why kill yourself on the wiring is a good point!!!  I did setup a temporary programming track under the town in front of the South Yard.  Yes, the center support is in the way, but it was easy to get diesels in and I put steam engines in ones side and tenders in the other, then connected them.  I'll have to screw the track section down and run permanent wire to it.

Speaking of wiring, I have been putting off wiring the 3 DZ1000 switch machines for the switches I added a year and a half ago.  That was before I had trouble with different nerves getting pinched in my back.  I had surgery a year ago, and was going to wait until I was stronger.  Well, I guess this is about as good as it will get.  I need to wire those switches along with the programming track before something else goes wrong with me physically! 

It has been a few days since I checked in.  I was able to wire up an isolated programming track for WIU DCS app programming, and I have all the engines set up in the app except one.  It will not take a Legacy GP7, though it works just fine with the Remote and the TMCC remote.  I setup 3 TMCC engines in the app with no problems, so I don't know what's up with the Legacy.    It's no big deal.  So far the app is nice to use.

While wiring, I wired and tested the 4 switches with DZ1000's that I added last year.  Finally!  I wrote that I had 3, and when I thought I was all done and started running trains, I realized I had a 4th to do.    I did have trouble with 2 of the DZ1000's.  They would switch in one direction, but not the other.  These were both reused from the old track configuration and had worked before.  I checked and rechecked the wiring which was correct.  I finally removed the DZ1000 from the switch with the leads still connected.  Turning it over, there is a tiny Phillips head screw holding the bottom plate.  I took it off, and found this.

The little lever held by the screw in the upper left seemed to be doing nothing.  I guessed that it should be in contact with the little switch, so I slid it in place there and tightened the screw; it really wasn't loose.

Now it works correctly.    I am guessing that by manually moving the button on the topside when it wasn't powered caused it to finally move out of position.  I guess.

The second one had the same problem, but I can't get it to stay in place even though I have had it apart 3 times.  I'm just going to order another and replace it.  I'll order two and have a spare.

That done, I will be moving back to finalizing dimensions for the church scratch-build.  I have also been thinking of putting a small grade in the town area to add some visual interest.  I'll see how that goes.

If anyone has any answers about programming the Legacy engine in the DCS app, I'm all ears! 

Mark you have to make sure that the legacy engine’s ID number is the same when loaded into DCS as it is programmed into the legacy Base. I would remove it from the legacy Base and re-enter it with an ID number that’s NOT being used by DCS, then load into DCS with that same ID number. This has fouled me up more than once.

Mike

Mike, thank you very much for the tip!  I hope I will have time to try that today and report back.

Mike, I did just what you said and it worked.  The Legacy engine now works in the DCS app.  I didn’t have any doubts, I just wanted to thank you for helping me.

Mark, I have learned so much from watching your layout progress. I am thankful I could help you get your engine working! Thanks for letting me know!

Mike

Mike, You're welcome, and I am glad you have benefited from our long discussion here.

I finally sized the stained glass window photograph to about the right size for the church.  Looking at the original photograph, my prints may be just a bit too tall.  I'll decide if I want them a bit smaller before laying out the plans for the building.   I printed a bunch and taped them to the mock-up.  I think the proportions look pretty good.  I just penciled in the door.  I didn't put much effort, because it was a little hard to do close to the corner. 

Here is the original photograph again.  Along the left side, it looks like there are at least 3 much taller windows of the same width as the front windows.  I'll make those out of two window prints.  I'm going to assume the other side is similar, so I'll do the same there.  I am considering not worrying about any windows or doors in the rear since it won't bee seen anyway.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, You're welcome, and I am glad you have benefited from our long discussion here.

I finally sized the stained glass window photograph to about the right size for the church.  Looking at the original photograph, my prints may be just a bit too tall.  I'll decide if I want them a bit smaller before laying out the plans for the building.   I printed a bunch and taped them to the mock-up.  I think the proportions look pretty good.  I just penciled in the door.  I didn't put much effort, because it was a little hard to do close to the corner.

Here is the original photograph again.  Along the left side, it looks like there are at least 3 much taller windows of the same width as the front windows.  I'll make those out of two window prints.  I'm going to assume the other side is similar, so I'll do the same there.  I am considering not worrying about any windows or doors in the rear since it won't bee seen anyway.

Nice Mark, the extra height has a much better scale proportion to your original. It all starts with a well thought out plan.

Gene

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, You're welcome, and I am glad you have benefited from our long discussion here.

I finally sized the stained glass window photograph to about the right size for the church.  Looking at the original photograph, my prints may be just a bit too tall.  I'll decide if I want them a bit smaller before laying out the plans for the building.   I printed a bunch and taped them to the mock-up.  I think the proportions look pretty good.  I just penciled in the door.  I didn't put much effort, because it was a little hard to do close to the corner.

Here is the original photograph again.  Along the left side, it looks like there are at least 3 much taller windows of the same width as the front windows.  I'll make those out of two window prints.  I'm going to assume the other side is similar, so I'll do the same there.  I am considering not worrying about any windows or doors in the rear since it won't bee seen anyway.

Mark, that is coming along very nicely. Your attention to detail and perseverance are astounding. That, along with your other structures, are going to make for a magnificent layout.

Jay

Thank you, Gene, Jay!

Gene, yes I agree the proportions look pretty good for a model.  I think the prototype looks a bit odd with the placement of the 4 front windows on the left.

Jay, I think it will work out nicely.  Now I need to go to the drawing board and work out some definite dimensions.

I don't think much of that will happen today or tomorrow.  I did a bit of yard work this morning and need a nap.  Tomorrow I am going to my high school class's 50th reunion.  Though I live only 14 miles from the school, the last one I attended was the 25th.  Where did all the years go????

I think the work you"re doing on that building is just fantastic!

Mark I am glad you got the WIU figured out and everything is working, cause I know I am going to have tons of question when the time comes! LOL

Your church mock up looks great and I am sure the finished one is going to be perfect!

Mike, Engines are running, but I haven't started on adding switches and accessories with the app.  That will be a new endeavor I'm sure.  I hope I can easily 'gang' some switch movements so one selection would setup a whole route.  That's the goal.  I found that rather cumbersome on the remote, though it could have been just me.   I will say, I ordered two new DZ-1000's, one to replace the one that slips and a spare.

Thank you for the word of support on the church planning.  I think it will turn out good.  "Perfect" depends on what issues I run into that I get tired of trying to fix and decide it is good enough.    I just got started drawing up an accurate plan to use for cutting materials.  That is, I cleared off a space to work and got the tools out to draw it up! 

My wife's brother and his wife just returned from visiting their daughter's family in Los Angeles.  Their 3-year old grandson, Keaton, has a small train set and really enjoys it.  I was asked to make a video of my layout for him.  Here are 2 videos; the first is the Western Maryland Fe AA and the Western Maryland Russian Decapod 2-10-0.

The second video is just a camera view around the layout with the same trains running.

Astute viewers will see the Menard's church taking the place of the mock up for my scratch build project.

@chris a posted:

Mark,  wanted to share a pretty cool material for scratch-building brick buildings.   Just used some on my Chemical Industry, very easy to work with, took Red Oxide primer really well, made sure to stay back 16 - 20 inches and do thin coats.   Here's some photos of it, along with a photo of the product Name # etc.   

I have had this Plastruct Rough brick 1/48 for years, finally got it out and started working with it.   Cut's very easily with sharp utility knife etc.   Been using some of the E6000 adhesive to permanently adhere it to 1/4 inch lauan plywood backing.  The cap on top of the wall is some cork road bed, went an purchased a few pieces of either HO or N, pretty sure it's HO so it's thinner than O scale,  looks just like concrete after some weathering with Khaki and Gray Craft paints.

Since it was a month and a page ago, I copied Chris' post.  I have down all the outside dimensions for the church and was able to calculate how much material I need.  I just ordered 3 packages of the Plastruct PLS91883 Brick Patterned Plastic Sheet (Red).  I still need to get some new lauan plywood, which should make a very sturdy building.

I also received the DZ-1000's and replaced the defective one.  Now all of them work properly.  Next on that project is to start adding them to the WIU app and setting up some routes, so I can select more than one switch at a time.  That should be much easier than the way I have been doing it; and forgetting to throw all the necessary switches for a new route.   

Mark, the layout is looking good and wonderful videos! The 3yr old should be thrilled ! I am glad things are going good with your church build and I cant wait to see it on the layout!

Take care and have fun!

Mark, the videos are wonderful. The layout buildings are looking great. Waiting patiently to see the church!!

Thanks for sharing

Mike

Thank you, Mike and Mike!!

Thank you for patiently waiting.  We have had some extended family responsibilities as of late, so I haven't gotten as far as I would have liked.  I did finish sanding and filing all the Lauan wall sections and a base last evening.  I'll cut ones for the two roof sections once I get the walls assembled.  My measuring-cutting skills aren't what they could be to do them ahead of time.

Here are the sections, the base isn't in the photograph.  I made the front and rear full width, but the sides are 3/16" smaller on each side for the thickness of the lauan.

I ordered Plastruct brick siding, but made a mistake, ordering flat stuff by mistake.  It is colored for multi-colored brick which would be better for a background building.  I'll save it.  I then ordered some of the textured stuff Chris a. suggested.  Three packs of two sheets should be here next week.  I started marking out window placements on one of the drawings, but decided to stop and mark it on the material.  I could measure, mark, and cut out the openings on the lauan before the Plastruct siding arrives.  We will see how it goes.

I have not done much more with the WIU and app since last report other than run trains a few times.  It does work slick, but I think I will want to get a small tablet instead of using the iPhone 10.

Mark, looks like you are well on your way with the church! I attached a photo of the tablet I am using for the DCS app and eventually for the Base3 app. I have been very happy with it. It is dedicated to the trains so I’m not using it for anything else. Got mine on Amazon. Just an FYI……

Mike

@Mark Boyce posted:

My wife's brother and his wife just returned from visiting their daughter's family in Los Angeles.  Their 3-year old grandson, Keaton, has a small train set and really enjoys it.  I was asked to make a video of my layout for him.  Here are 2 videos; the first is the Western Maryland Fe AA and the Western Maryland Russian Decapod 2-10-0.

The second video is just a camera view around the layout with the same trains running.

Astute viewers will see the Menard's church taking the place of the mock up for my scratch build project.

Mark,

Those sure are some smooth running trains. The church is coming along nicely and thanks for taking us through the process. Will you be relocating the Menard's church?

Dave

Things are looking up with the church Mark! I am sure your wife is going to be thrilled on how it is going to turn out! Keep up the wonderful work! and I will keep watching!

Thank you, Mike, Dave, Mike!

LT1poncho Mike, that’s a nice tablet!  Thank you for the suggestion.

Dave, I will be relocating the church to a layout to be named later; that is someone else’s layout.  I don’t have room for two churches.  I’ll be posting it for sale at some point.

Mike, my wife has seen the mock-up and didn’t recognize it as the old church.  It’s been 39 years since we moved away for 10 years, and by then it was gone.

I am finally back.  It has been a tough month, but I got a little done.  Here is a front wall section with the Plastruct brick applied, though the tower is a little taller than the brick sheet.  After I glued the brick on, I cut out the window holes in it thinking i would be mounting the windows from the back side.  Upon looking at the prototype photograph, I realized the windows are almost flush with the brick surface.  I slipped the hobby knife blade in to make an opening to slide one copy paper window in for these photographs.  This wall section will probably end up being a trial and error piece, and I'll make another one once I have figured this out.

Here it is with a  LED flashlight giving some back lighting.  Even with copy paper, it looks pretty good I think.

I will continue on with this project.  This is all I have accomplished with the layout the entire month.

That’s going to look real nice once done and all lit up.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I am finally back.  It has been a tough month, but I got a little done.  Here is a front wall section with the Plastruct brick applied, though the tower is a little taller than the brick sheet.  After I glued the brick on, I cut out the window holes in it thinking i would be mounting the windows from the back side.  Upon looking at the prototype photograph, I realized the windows are almost flush with the brick surface.  I slipped the hobby knife blade in to make an opening to slide one copy paper window in for these photographs.  This wall section will probably end up being a trial and error piece, and I'll make another one once I have figured this out.

Here it is with a  LED flashlight giving some back lighting.  Even with copy paper, it looks pretty good I think.

I will continue on with this project.  This is all I have accomplished with the layout the entire month.

It’s not how much you’ve done Mark but how well you’re doing it, and it looks great! That’s going to be a beautiful building on your layout with a purpose.

Gene

Mark, glad to see you posting again! I know you have had other things on your plate.

I have to say that I think the windows are going to look perfect! Your doing a great job on the church! Keep up the good work!

Looks good Mark. A little prototyping now, less cursing later.......

Bob

That's going to look great! I wish I had your skills Mark!

With scratch-building, trial and error is the primary building method. Then… when you finally get it all figured out, you're done. If you had to make another one, you'll get it perfect. Unfortunately, the next project will be different enough that the process starts all over again. Oh well… it's our hobby, not work.

Thank you, Dave, Gene, Mike, Bob, Darrell, Myles!

Bob, This is true, prototyping now will save headaches!

Myles, yes it does take some trial and error.  Another building will have its problems.  If it wasn’t satisfying, we wouldn’t do it.

I was at a meeting at church this evening, and as usual my right sciatic nerve acted up.  I took a walk and went over to the lobby area.  I noticed the stained glass window on display is actually backlit.  I never noticed that in the daytime.  Do, I took a couple photographs.  I’ll have to size them and print samples to see whether they give a better effect.

Mark………the Church is going to look fabulous!

Peter