Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Mark, nice looking plan, I think Lew is on the right path. If you use a support a 1/4" taller would give you a 1/2" clearance then you could use anything you wanted for road bed. Even if you just used a thin steel plate as it is the bottom clearance would be the same as you have now.

If you go with both a 1/4" along with a thin product you will be golden! If you need I have some used I think its 1/8th or 1/4" plexi glass I could cut your curve into with no problem.

Either way its looking good!

Thank you Andy, Marty, Mike.  I was fiddling with it last evening some.  I do think I will use some thinner, sturdy material for the crossover above.  I may just glue the cork roadbed to that material and forego the Homasote at that point.  I won't be using Homasote on the bridges that will be at the raise up access point a few feet away either.  Mike, the thinner material doesn't even have to be cut on a curve, because I was going to extend the scenery out a bit on either end to hide the fact the track is crossing over itself there.  Thank you everyone for all the good ideas.

In the last two weeks I got a little more done on the upper level.  I decided to increase the height of the roadbed supports where the track goes over the lower level by 1/2 inch.  That gives me plenty of clearance with this car that is taller than all the rest I own.

Since the highest point will be higher, that would make the grade longer (which I don't have room) or steeper.  Well that problem was solved when I decided to not try to make the roadbed on the grade out of wood as I have done in the past.  I knew I would have trouble making a smooth transition at the bottom of the grade with simple tools and limited skill.  I decided to buy Woodland Scenics foam incline sections.  Since they come in 2%, 3%, and 4% grades, I decided I could handle 4% as opposed to the 3.7% grade on the plan.  If I had a large layout, they could get expensive, but with only two short grades, the cost wasn't a problem.  Here are a photographs of the grade already glued down.  The paper cutout of the SCARM plan sits right on top of it showing I got the curve pretty good.

I'm going to glue Homasote and cork beveled roadbed on top to give something solid for the track screws to grab.  You can see I do have to do a little matching up at tht top of the grade at the last photograph.

Thank you for taking a look!!!  Stay safe and healthy everyone!!

Mark, that'll work! 

Looking good, Mark!

Peter

Coming along nicely Mark! Grade looking good too!

You are making good progress Mark.  Keep it up and keep us posted. 

Mark, looks like you have a good plan! I am with Lew I think it will work just fine! Its nice to see you got it figured out! Keep up the nice work!

Looks good Mark. Sometimes its best to accept our limitations and call in (or buy from), the pros.

Bob

Lew, Peter, Lance, Jim, Mike, Bob, Thank you very much everyone!!

Yes, It has taken a while to figure it out, and there is more to figure out.  I suppose everyone runs into that on a layout build.  Fortunately this was fairly inexpensive to buy from the pros.  If I had more disposable income, there are some other things I would buy too, but on the other hand, I don't necessarily need them. 

I like what you’ve done Mark, not only with the styrofoam for the grade, but you’re maximizing what you have on hand. Well done 👍🏻 

Andy

Andy, Thank you!!  It would be nice to buy all new top of the line wood products, but then I wouldn't have the cash to buy the rest of the track I need!  It will all be covered with scenery, so as long as it is structurally sound, it doesn't matter if it is a mix match.  I am rather OCD, but after 35 years married and raising 2 daughters, all far messier than me, I can live with the mix match!  

Hi Mark,

You may have already considered this, but on my last layout, I too used Woodland risers for a double mainline. After installing the risers I applied a few layers of plaster-cloth to increase its rigidity and it also gave much better support for laying and keeping the trackwork in place.  It was cheap, easy and fun to apply. Just a thought.

Your progress is great! Keep having fun.

JohnJr

JohnJr, 

Thank you for the suggestion.  Yes, I can see how the plaster cloth would give something rigid to support the track.  Your comment addresses the issue that I am facing since I made the decision to use foam to make my grades instead of wood.

My original plan was to put down a base of wood then put simple 2x4 risers on top of that for the grades and level upper track.  I would then use a wood-Homasote-cork sandwich for the roadbed whether on level or a grade.  I happily went on with that on the level area then felt overwhelmed at making the transitions from level to the grade.  That is when I decided to use foam.  That was fine until I realized I didn't have a good transition from the existing risers to the foam. 

This photograph shows two mismatches.  On the left, you see the top of the 4% grade which comes up to the top of the risers.  When I shimmed up the Woodland Scenics grade with 1" blue foam, I forgot that the risers were cut to have 5/8" of plywood or MDF/OSB before putting down Homasote on top.  That's the first mismatch.

On the right, you see the risers shimmed from 5" to 5 3/8" to give more room for trains to pass under my one overpass.  Carrying that through, I would still need to shim the middle section of risers to 5 3/8".  That means I need to raise the grade even further.

Here is where I temporarily placed sections of plywood down to make sure all my shimmed risers are level and at the same height.  I will need to work from that overall height around to the grade I showed above.

So in effect, I have been spending some time spinning my wheels on this, but all is not lost.  One thing is certain.  Everything is nice and solid so far!  

I have been thinking of adding more blue foam under or on top of the Woodland Scenics foam to make up the difference in height.  Other suggestions are welcome.

Have a great week and stay safe and healthy!!  

Great progress, Mark! I'm enjoying watching your layout materialize.

Firewood, Thank you!  

Mark- once you have the top height locked in, you can shim the track coming on to the grade. Get a pack of shims from HD/ Lowes. They are cheap and easy to work with.

Bob

Bob, Great point!!  I had some, but used them all up when I realized my metal brackets were slightly more than 90 degrees.  I was at both stores last week looking for an obscure plumbing part, but never thought of looking for shims.    I'll have to stop later in the week when I have to go out that way again.  

I think those are the plastic wrapped packages of Cedar shims. You get a bunch, cheap. Wish you were close, I have a whole bunch of those left from various projects.

Jeff

Hey Mark, been a bit since I got my eyes and nose over the other topics to take a good look here. It looks great. I love how the grade foam is working. I sort of wondered about that myself seeing it done on a smaller scale(HO) and how it would work. Remember that the only mistakes you make are the ones you decide not to correct or don't notice. Even at that though if you can live with them, so be it. Now, if the entire train flies off the tracks(God forbid), then it's time to stop letting me help, not that I have yet, just saying.

Bob and Jeff, Unbeknownst to me when I last responded my wife had another load ready to take to the Goodwill store for them to haul to their warehouse in Pittsburgh for processing.  I stopped in Home Depot on the way back and bought these.  This sure beats the little packages of shims I have purchased before.

They should last through this project!!    Thank you both!!

Dave, Trains flying off the tracks was my experience with N scale back in the '80s!  Enough of that!    I have seen a couple others here on the Forum using the Woodland Scenics on their O gauge layouts, so I thought I would give it a try.  Thank you for commenting!!

Perfect Mark. When you're done with the layout you can either side the house or re-hang a bunch of doors.

Bob

Well Bob, My house is brick and aluminum siding, so I won't be siding the house, but a lot of the doors are pretty beat...  

Ha ha. Think that will be enough?

Jeff

Ha Ha!!  I don't know if it will be enough.  I make a lot of mistakes!!  

So I was able to shim the middle section I showed yesterday with one shingle.  It worked great!!  Everything is level.  Yes, I will have a lot left over!!  Going outside to put some things in the shed, I was reminded I need to repair the outdoor Nativity after it blew down and broke the roof.  I can use leftover shingles to make a more rustic look than what is on the broken roof now!!  

With the cold weather, I have been able to make some progress.  Using Homasote, cork, and track from the last attempt at my newest layout, I was able to get the track in underneath the overpass area.  I left the top plywood section a little large at the inside of the curve for the sidings that will go to the right.  I could cut it back some later if I see it isn't needed and in the way for scenery.

Here is the clearance for my highest car that is too modern for normal running.

Also side clearance for the longest car.

Over where the grade starts down, I did not want to try to pry the Woodland Scenics foam incline because I was sure I would damage it too much.  Instead, I cut 1-inch blue foam to size and it fits very well.  The foam was painted white several years ago for a Christmas layout.  This is the third project that I have used this foam.

At the bottom of the grade, I had a problem.  The foam now made it almost an inch higher than wanted.  I thought of cutting foam down to a taper, but with a curve to consider also, I thought I would struggle.  In comes those cedar shims, oh some of you pointed out they are shingles.  You are right.  I cut and glued a lot of them down to make a smooth taper down to the 0-inch level.

So far, so good.

Coming together nicely Mark! 

👍

@Mark Boyce posted:

With the cold weather, I have been able to make some progress.  Using Homasote, cork, and track from the last attempt at my newest layout, I was able to get the track in underneath the overpass area.  I left the top plywood section a little large at the inside of the curve for the sidings that will go to the right.  I could cut it back some later if I see it isn't needed and in the way for scenery.

Here is the clearance for my highest car that is too modern for normal running.

Also side clearance for the longest car.

 

 

 

Ah yes, Mark, the most critical measurements of all 

Thank you Lance, Pat, Kevin!!

Excellent point Kevin that it is the most critical measurement!!  Also, I think it is one that is easy to overlook in the excitement of the build!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Lance, Pat, Kevin!!

Excellent point Kevin that it is the most critical measurement!!  Also, I think it is one that is easy to overlook in the excitement of the build!!

And, depending on what kind of locomotives you run, don't forget pilot overhang on the outside of curves.

Absolutely Lance!  For me, with 042 mainline minimum curve, my steam locomotives include two 2-8-0s, a 2-8-2, a 4-6-2, an 0-8-0, and a three-truck Shay.  Not much overhang on those.  I checked that out on the 042 loop I built last winter.  However, some steamers really overhang.  My diesels are two RS-3s, a GP7, and a BL-2.  

Thank you, Firewood!  Don't feel bad on that.  I saw where one club with many experienced modelers ripped out scenery and changed the track just because the back of the cab roof of one of the members steam locomotives hit in a few places.  It can happen to anyone.

My older son bought a Lionel scale, TMCC crane.  It rubs on the otherwise perfectly adequate rockwork inside the portals to our tunnel.  We need to do some supplementary carving.  I didn't plan for such a big piece!

Palallin, I have seen the TMCC crane in action.  It is a really neat product, but is certainly big!  I guess I could say for the first time that it is good none of my daughters or sons-in-law are interested in trains to buy such a product.  I actually thought of the crane when discussing raising the roof on the tunnel.

Here is part of my comment back on April 12th. ""Thank you, Lew!!  The only thing I could think of that may be taller would be a wrecking crane.  But if the prototype had any that were too tall, they would just go around the other way.  ""

Now, I will still have to consider what I use to scenic the insides of the tunnel to not take up space.  On the left hand approach, I am thinking of camouflaging the opening with buildings, but that won't work on the right hand approach.

Thank you for your comments!!

Whenever you need extra clearance for an overpass you can depress the bottom track by removing the Homasote and taper the track down, go under the over pass and taper back up.. 

If you need even more clearance use a saber saw and cut out the decking along each side of the lower track and push the grade down under and back up again.

Other things to do is to use a girder bridge for the upper track with only thin  metal plate directly under the ties.   No plywood or road bed at the actual short span overpass.

Several  other ways to reduce the rate of climb.  I go nutz reducing grades.  Got the most recent grade down to +/- 1%

Tom, Thank you for the great suggestions.  Depressing the bottom track is doing what the prototype had to do to accept double stack cars.  That perhaps would have been the easier way to do it in my case.  I'll do it if I ever get that crane car that Pallalin's son bought.  

I was working on some roadbed last evening and realized I had better get the backdrop up.  Today I got all these sections in place.  Not all the pieces are attached  the bracing.  That is why a couple pieces lean a bit, but they aren't going anywhere.  I left a gap next to the wall when I attached the 1x3 joists to the metal brackets.  That way the hardboard backdrop sections just slide down into place with only a minimum of bracing.  Those are mainly at the corners.

Well look what came today!  A second Premier PS2 H9 I bought from a friend.  This one is a little different in that it started out with Erie livery and the previous owner lettered it for WM.  He left the cab roof black and the smokebox gray, but I like it in that it looks a little different from the factory painted #821 I already have.

I included this photograph to point out that with the cab roof vent up, it is a smidgeon higher than the tall C&O car.  I think I will take Tom Tee's advice and remove the Homasote and taper it down a bit before I go any farther with this portion of the layout.  Why not do it now?    Thank you, Tom!!

Makes all the difference in the world, Mark:  looks great!

Mark

Nice purchase. What clearance do you currently have? I think mine is 5.5"; maybe less. I don't plan to run double stacks or any other modern rolling stock.

Thank you Pallalin and Keith!

Mine is only 4 5/8" from the top of the rail to the roof of the tunnel.  I can gain another 1/2" putting it at 5 1/8" if I take out the Homasote.  I'm not going to run any modern rolling stock either, but I think I would like a little more clearance!

Backdrop looks great Mark! Keep up the great work! 

The backdrop looks great, mark. Enjoy the new engine. It's because of surprises like that,That it's better not to cut your clearances too close.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Pallalin and Keith!

Mine is only 4 5/8" from the top of the rail to the roof of the tunnel.  I can gain another 1/2" putting it at 5 1/8" if I take out the Homasote.  I'm not going to run any modern rolling stock either, but I think I would like a little more clearance!

Mark

I have a passing siding that runs under an overhead mainline. It will only have 4 1/2" clearance. I just bought an MTH 44 tonner that should clear.

Mark, I've been following your methodical progress. The backdrop came together nicely. It really sets the mood and tone for your pike. You are working through the elevation and grade details. 

You brought home a whole lot of fudge-factor here  :

@Mark Boyce posted:

Andy, Thank you!!  It would be nice to buy all new top of the line wood products, but then I wouldn't have the cash to buy the rest of the track I need!  It will all be covered with scenery, so as long as it is structurally sound, it doesn't matter if it is a mix match.  I am rather OCD, but after 35 years married and raising 2 daughters, all far messier than me, I can live with the mix match!  

Your layout is coming along nicely, and I like your backdrop (being the native of the Alleghenies that I am). And I absolutely agree about the structural supports and roadbed that will eventually be hidden by scenery: as long as they are well-engineered, solid, and built to last, does it really matter what they look like? 

Love that new steamer Mark. The backdrops really change the look of the room. Good to find any hidden clearance issues now.

Bob

Thank you, Pat, Keith, Lew, Bruce, Bob!

Yes the backdrop does add a lot!  I purchased it from OGR Forum member George 'G3750' who is building his PRR Panhandle Division 2.0.  George had this backdrop painted by an artist for his 1.0 version.  In conversing with him, I determined it would just about cover my space.  I have a 40-inch section of brick wall between the big window that was the back window of the house before this addition was built and the door.  I have a big sheet of hardboard primed white and will get my artist daughter to help me pick colors.  I will work on that one myself.  Since it will be separated from the rest of the backdrop by 48 inches whatever difference in style and texture shouldn't be noticeable.  This photograph from 3 years ago shows the section of wall between the window and door I will still need to cover.  Yes this project has been going on for over 3 years.

Keith, I agree the 44-Tonner should be fine on the passing siding.  None of my diesels are over 4 inches and they are all scale.

Lew, Yes I need a whole lot of fudge factor!!  With no precision tools and with arthritis and tendonitis, I can measure a hundred times and still cut wrong.  For precision cuts, I have reverted to the old hand saw and take it very slowly.  I can't control the circular saw or saber saw like I once did.  They are okay for rough cuts.

Bruce, There is one place I want to put another brace under, but everything else won't budge no matter how hard I put my weight on it.  Fortunately, I am almost done with the scratch-built benchwork.  I have Mianne like you see in the photograph with the cedar shims to use for the brick wall and other extension into the room to get to where the lift up bridges will be.  

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Pat, Keith, Lew, Bruce, Bob!

 

I can't control the circular saw or saber saw like I once did.  They are okay for rough cuts.

 

Me too.  My youngest son cut most of the 1/4" ply sub-roadbed.  I did the marking, as he didn't understand the layout. He's great to work with. Very patient; let's me lead, even though I kept saying Wait, No, Um, not sure, etc. 

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum; the OGR Forum, that is!

When I last communicated, I was going to undercut the lower level track through my short tunnel before doing anything else.  Well last Monday my wife was working on cleaning out a bunch of items we had saved for my recently deceased aunt, memorabilia from our girls' youth, and other items.  She got herself into a corner with boxes everywhere, so I decided to finish disassembling the Blackwater Canyon Line Layout C I had started in the adjacent family room to give her a sorting/transition area.  That however left me in a bind, with so much material, I was afraid the 11x11 room would burst.  I took all week moving plywood, Homasote, hardboard, dimensional lumber, foam, etcetera, etcetera....

I decided I had better build as much of the Mianne benchwork against the brick wall as I had parts for, cover it with plywood, put in a plywood shelf, store material on the shelf, and get the rest of the hardboard backdrop in place before tackling the undercutting in the tunnel.  Here are the results.  I do need a few more Mianne parts (1 40-inch leg, several 24-inch I beams, and some hardware), but the bulk of it is ready.  The section of Mianne with the shelf storing material is complete.  The side that shows in the second photograph is incomplete, in need of the parts above, but gives a good idea of what space the layout will take.

Yesterday, I had the time to remove the Homasote from under the track in the tunnel, and now I have plenty of headroom; I hope.

There is also plenty of side clearance for my longest engines, the two H9s and cars, the Heavyweights.

Flash forward to today.  I'm minding my own business, and MrMuffin sent me a 'Make an Offer' email.  He has never had anything I wanted in those, but today he had one Legacy Western Maryland 2-6-6-2 from the 2018 C1 Big Book available.  I made what I thought was a ridiculously low offer, and shortly received a counter at only $100 more than my offer.  My wife said since I got money from my aunt's estate, why not buy it?  So I did.  I know, purists would say that isn't exactly the locomotive Western Maryland had.  I don't care!  I like it!  

So now besides revisiting the side clearance once the 2-6-6-2 arrives, I need to make a variation on the SCARM plan D.  I was going to stick with H9s as the largest locomotive thinking I wouldn't buy anything larger.  There are three 042 curves that need widened to 054.  There is actually room to do this as I lay some 054 track on the layout.  I have a bunch of lightly used Ross 064 track that I think I got when I bought the Ross 054 used.  I never noticed that half of what I thought was 054 was actually 064.  Maybe whoever I bought it from didn't notice it either.  So I have a bunch of 042 and 064 I won't need, but need more 054.  I think I got it right.  It's a good thing the telecom company I last worked for pushed the early retirement my way.  I get so mixed up anymore.     On the other hand, it is all good!  It makes me work my mind more.  Yea!  That's it!  

Mark

Congrats on the new loco purchase. After 3 years or so of no new motive power, I bought 2 in the last month and another on the way; supposedly in June. I'm sure it will be a month or two late.

Mark,

I really like your backdrops. I only remember seeing just one section and didn't realize you had more. They look wonderful together. Now you have the task of matching them with great scenery which I'm sure you will do. Keep the progress coming.

Dave

Keith, Thank you and congratulations on your recent purchases!

Dave, Thank you!!  I put some of the backdrop up last weekend, and the rest yesterday,  As the one photograph shows, I need to fill in some painting that wasn't needed on the original owner's layout.  I also have a 24-inch wide section on the other side of the room to do.  I'll get my artist daughter to help me select colors and brushes, then I'll have a go at filling in what is needed.  It won't be much since I will have hills and buildings in front of those two sections.  Then you are right, I will need to match things up with the three dimensional scenery.  Those things will be fun for me.  I don't really like the construction of the benchwork and alligning everything up for the roadbed.  Scenery is much more free flowing.

I agree with Dave.  I like the backdrops that you are using Mark.

Mark - how about a SCARM drawing so we can see what you are up to? You might find you can intersperse the 054 and 063 so you don't need to buy more track and get a more sweeping curve.    

ScoutingDad, I was working on a SCARM drawing update before supper.  I figured out to easily make the 042 curves into 054. I’ll Try to post The latest tomorrow.  Thank you!!

Awesome news on the loco Mark! Sounds like you got a great game plan on the curve swap. 

By chance are the 042 Gargraves? I may take them off your hands if you don’t need

Mark- Congrats on the new loco. Should be right at home pulling a coal drag. Nice to see more layout progress too.

Slow and steady wins the race!

Bob

Mark, congratulations, that 2-6-6-2 is a great loco, nice proportions, pulls great, fits on most any turntable,  minimum over hang.  I got a couple of them myself, I can run them anywhere.  It may become your favorite piece.

Lance, Thank you very much!!  Yes, I think it is a plan!  My 042 curved track sections are all GarGraves.  Some have never been used, and others have a couple holes drilled for screws on the family room Blackwater Canyon Line rev C.  None have any glue or ballast on them.  I will take inventory and photographs and let you know what I have to see if you can use them.

Bob, Thank you for the encouragement!

Tom, Thank you!  I'm glad to hear all the good words about your 2-6-6-2.  

Very Nice !! 

Leandro, Thank you very much!!

ScoutingDad, here is the SCARM plan and the file.  I roughly overlaid the gray 054 curve sections to quickly show what I'm doing.  I can expand the three inner curves and tangents outward to get them farther from the corners.  I don't want to go too close to the outer loop because as you can see, my scenery plan is to put the Blackwater Canyon in between.  The long gray bar on the right edge is a sliding glass door to the patio.  The shorter gray bar in the lower right is the door leading to the rest of the basement.  The yellow section will be the liftout bridges for easy access.  I'm pushing 64, and have no interest in duckunders.  

Mark,  looks like it will be fun operating the line.  I cannot quite see the elevation marks at each track section. I assume the tunnel track has your lowest elevation and the bridge over section has the highest - everything flows up or down from there? I am surprised some of the grades are pushing 4% - I figure you have about 17 feet on the inner loop - with a 6 inch rise is just shy of a 3% grade; with a 4 inch rise is under 2% ; the outer loop would be even more gradual.  Jeff 

BTW we young guys have to stick together - we are probably a couple of months apart ; )  

Jeff, I tested each of my engines at the time pulling 4% grades and maybe 6% as well quite a while back, and they had no problem with I forget how many cars.  I was satisfied it wouldn't be a problem.  Forum member DoubleDAZ Dave did a lot of the SCARM work for me, especially the grades, so I took his word for it.

I am glad to know you are another young guy!  

Tom Tee, I watched a couple videos of earlier releases of the 2-6-6-2.  It looks great and sounds great running.  I haven't been able to find one where it is taking a curve, but mine did ship today, so I should see for myself soon!! 

Morning Mark, Took me awhile to get up to speed on your layout build and I have to say your doing a wonderful job! The backdrops look perfect and your track work is outstanding! Its nice that you have folks like Tom Tee and others to bounce ideas off of. I hope you will post photos of your new engine when you receive it. 

I will try to do better keeping up on your build as it looks like its going to be a fun layout to run! 

Take care and be safe, but most of all keep having fun on your layout build!

Mike, I'm glad to hear from you.  I was thinking about you yesterday, knowing you were working on the house to prepare for the new roof, and probably other things.

Thank you for the compliments on the benchwork, track, and backdrops.  The artist that George (G3750) had paint the backdrops did a great job, and I was pleased how I was able to cut portions to fit my room.

I will certainly post photographs of the 2-6-6-2 after it arrives.  It was shipped out from central Indiana yesterday, so I should have it later this week.  To me, it is a once in a lifetime purchase! One of those deals you don't often come across!  

I'm having fun, and I am getting more enthused as I progress!  I guess that is what it is all about!!

I will look forward to seeing you get back to work on your layout when time permits.

Wow, I’ve been playing on the OGR Forum for many years and it just dawned on me that this entire thread is about your nice layout, which is evolving into a really neat showpiece. Blackwater Canyon Line, a nice name for a model railroad, is so unique. Your track plan is nice, congratulations on your new Locomotive that’s on the way, and I like the backdrop very much. Now, for a 11 by 11 size pike, it’s going to be jam packed with action everywhere, so cool. To me, it’s not the size of one’s layout that counts, it’s the quality of the work involved, great track work, great wiring, neat scenic detailing, and fun to run trains. You have a very neat plan, thanks for showing your progress and ideas. Happy Railroading 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Leandro, Thank you very much!!

ScoutingDad, here is the SCARM plan and the file.  I roughly overlaid the gray 054 curve sections to quickly show what I'm doing.  I can expand the three inner curves and tangents outward to get them farther from the corners.  I don't want to go too close to the outer loop because as you can see, my scenery plan is to put the Blackwater Canyon in between.  The long gray bar on the right edge is a sliding glass door to the patio.  The shorter gray bar in the lower right is the door leading to the rest of the basement.  The yellow section will be the liftout bridges for easy access.  I'm pushing 64, and have no interest in duckunders.  

Hey Mark, looking good.   The lift out section will be much better than a duck under.  

Mark, just thinking about your layout plan. I see you have a couple of passing sidings along the right side.  You might want to consider adding a siding (or two) along the left side.  I know there is the issue of too much track, but I ended up adding sidings and passing tracks simply so I could keep my engines and rolling stock on the rails and not on a shelf. I do have them wired so I can keep the power off when not being used. Some of my passenger trains are 6 to 7 feet long making it challenging figuring out where they can wait to be be ready to run.  This is where the Ross 72 / 54 curved switches might come in handy in your corners. I wish I had the room for a decent freight yard.  Jeff    

Larry, Thank you!!  Sometimes I don't realize what I am looking at either.  John Coy was the one to suggest the name Blackwater Canyon Line.  Way back on Page 1 in January 2017 he suggested modeling a section of the prototype Western Maryland Railway in West Virginia including the Black Fork Grade, up Blackwater Canyon.  Unbeknownst to him, I had planned and started to build an HO layout back in the late '90s that included that very prototype.  That layout was in a bigger room, so with HO, I was going to model scenes from Elkins, West Virginia to Cumberland, Maryland.  Well I got more busy with two growing daughters, then we moved to be closer to the Christian School where we had enrolled them.  The layout came down, and here I am over 20 years later trying to squeeze an O gauge layout into half the space.  

Dan, Thank you!  Yes at 63 ducking is a nuisance, and now I have trouble keeping my balance when doing something like that.  

@ScoutingDad posted:

Mark, just thinking about your layout plan. I see you have a couple of passing sidings along the right side.  You might want to consider adding a siding (or two) along the left side.  I know there is the issue of too much track, but I ended up adding sidings and passing tracks simply so I could keep my engines and rolling stock on the rails and not on a shelf. I do have them wired so I can keep the power off when not being used. Some of my passenger trains are 6 to 7 feet long making it challenging figuring out where they can wait to be be ready to run.  This is where the Ross 72 / 54 curved switches might come in handy in your corners. I wish I had the room for a decent freight yard.  Jeff    

How did you know what I have in inventory that I bought for my earlier plan?  I had to go just now to make sure exactly what they are.  I have one each Ross 72/54 RH and 72/54 LH curved switches.    Those were necessary to make a turn around loop fit in a space that looked larger than it is until planning started on Plan C.  This is Plan D.

We had discussed a few pages back on Plan C (that I started building in the family room a year and a half ago) your very idea for especially keeping engines on the track, so I don't drop one sometime.  I was just moving my engines to a safer spot last week, and realized the two H9s are way heavier than I remembered.  My grip is not what it used to be.  I know once I get the 2-6-6-2 on the track, I won't want to take it back off for storage.  I think it I will have to incorporate your suggestion into the plan.

I will have to work with that some, keeping mind what I have planned for scenic features.  Thank you very much!!

Mark,

It's been awhile since I checked in on your layout build.  Congrats on the track plan, the new locomotive, and the benchwork.  It's looking great.  And hey, that backdrop ain't so bad, either.      Actually it looks awesome.  Janice did a **** of a job.  I've got to tell her it has a new life.  She'll get a kick out of that.

Keep up the good work.

George

I like the idea of adding a long passing siding Mark. Would you be able to add it along the back wall? I know it would crowd the canyon but being able to park a long train would be a worthy compromise to me.

----- OR -------

Would you consider moving the switch on the inner loop to the other side of the lift out and having 3 tracks on the lift out? The limiting factor there would be not being able to keep a train parked and lift out the section.

The 054 curves on the inner loop look good too.

Bob

George, Thank you very much!!!  Please do let Janice know it has new life!  She did a great job!!!

You do notice that I don't need it to be as high as she painted it, so I cut of the bottom of the section that had the Ohio River, since I didn't need the wide river.  The hills on that section work out great as the river bent into the background.  I have the river section on the shelf under the new Mianne.  I also have a nice long 1-foot high section of sky that I intend to put above the window in the brick wall to completely cover up the tan brick.  I haven't decided how I will support that.

Bob, Those are all good suggestions.  To pull off the canyon correctly, the slopes have to be steep.  It just occurred to me, I could put a siding there on the slope.  The engine would hold the cars from rolling down.  I plan to make a lot of foam based scenery that I can build at the workbench and remove if I have to get behind or under them.  If the siding is on the uphill side, I could cover it with the mountain before it runs into the backdrop.  That is if I want to make it look single track.

Three tracks on the lift out would be okay.  I think it would be easier to construct and move if I made two liftouts, one for each level.  So I break the train before going out of the layout.  That's prototypical anyway.  The B&O used to have to break trains back home quite often.  I my very humble opinion, they were always stingy on how many F-units they put on the train going uphill from Mars, through Valencia, and to the summit at Bakerstown Station.  They did away with the helper pocket when they went to diesel, so they had to call in helpers if a train stalled.  They would brake the train at Valencia for the road crossing to let cars and trucks through while waiting for a helper.  The tracks were less than a half mile from my home at the bottom of the hill.

Yes, we should have gone with 054 on both loops from the start.  Oh well.  I only have to revise the roadbed on one curve I already put in place.  No big deal.  Now is the time.

Thank you Both!!!

Mark, you could always use a actuator like I did to lift the bridge section. Then all you would have to do is flip a switch!

Mike, you are right.  That is a handy device once it is installed.  Yours works really slick.

Nice planning there Mark. Been a bit since I got my eyes reading in here. One of the things I have been toying around in my head has been designs. I've been wrestling a long time with it just because I haven't had time, and probably putting too much stuff in the way(meaning in the layout planning). Granted that whatever I do manage to come up with, I would be on paper until a new house, but it's worth the effort to fiddle about coming up with ideas.

I know one of the problems I had was too many turnouts making things cluttered. Maybe I should start with a few ovals and go from there.

Yours is looking better each time I pop in. Can't wait to see the 2-6-6-2.

Thank you, Dave!!  The 2-6-6-2 is supposed to be out for delivery today.

Do you know when you will be getting a new house?  I hope not long.

I had two packages arrive today.  The first was some more GarGraves 054 curved track from Forum sponsor Henning's Trains.  The second was the new locomotive from Forum sponsor Mr. Muffin.  I inspected the 2-6-6-2 and it looks great.  I briefly ran it back and forth on some track and tried it on 054 curve.  I had the smoke off, and did not try many functions, but so far so good.  Thank you for looking!

   that is awesome Mark !!   very NICE !   great looking locomotive !

That's one beautiful looking engine, Mark.

Mark, that’s a fantastic looking locomotive, the Western Maryland logo is very unique and colorful. Congratulations, and I hope you get many years of enjoyment with your trains and the nice layout your building. I always think of the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads and valleys as the stage, for our trains as characters to run through.  Keep up the great work, keep us posted as you make progress on your Blackwater Canyon Line. Happy Railroading 

Brian, Pat, Larry, Thank you very much!  Larry, I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon.  Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical.  But everything needs a good foundation.  Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!

Great-looking engine in WM colours - nice pick, Mark 

Firewood, thank you!

Beautiful engine, Mark. The only thing better than steam is BIG steam!!!

Mark 

  Should look good pulling coal on the Hi Iron!

Al

That's a beaut alright Mark! Nice pickup

Beautiful engine, and glad you got a deal on it.  How is the clearance?

Mark, that sure is a sharp looking engine! It is going to look wonderful on your layout! Has me wondering what your plans are for  what type of cars are you going to be pulling behind it? Either way very nice and I to hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it and your layout!

That's a beauty Mark! Looks good on the 054 curve too.

Bob

@Mark Boyce posted:

I hope to get to the scenery, structures, bridges, mountains, rivers, roads, and valleys soon.  Building them is what I like a lot more than the benchwork, track, electrical.  But everything needs a good foundation.  Yes, this locomotive and all the trains look so much better travelling through the sceniced stage!

I couldn't agree more. There's a phrase that applies perfectly to our collective hobby, which I first heard in reference to the video gaming industry: it's called "the suspension of disbelief." All one has to do is view a Norm Charbonneau video on YouTube to get a prime example.

We apply our creative assets to build a miniature realm, with trains as the actors moving about on the stage. I make no quibbles (or excuses) about the joys of living a second childhood.  

Thank you, Paul, Al, Lance, Mallard, Mike, Bob, Bruce!!!

Bruce, the term "the suspension of disbelief." certainly applies!!  I'll have to bounce that one off my two sons-in-law, especially the one who has made it into their livelihood.  Norm C certainly is a master of it!  The second childhood is great!!

Mike, well as coal is still king, I am one shy of two dozen 2-bay hoppers. I think those trains will be handled by either the H9s or RS3s as the prototype did.  I think this engine will pull mostly mixed freight.  I have 21 boxcars, 5 tank cars, 2 gondolas, 4 flatcars, 6 log dump cars, 6 reefers, and of course each freight train will have a caboose.  I have a set of heavyweight passenger cars and a set of streamlined.  The Pacific will handle those.

Mallard, yes the clearances were a concern.  I have no problem with the height of the short tunnel, and I discovered the 2x4 supports offer no obstruction to the overhang anywhere.  The front is the critical point.  It just barely clears one support (photograph 3 and 4), so I am going to carve some breathing room out of it not only for engine sway, but also for some sort of tunnel liner.

On to the backdrop.  No problem there.  Keep in mind, this track is not fastened down, so I will work for even more clearance.  The closest spot is shown.  The shadow makes it look a lot closer than it is.  I had to put my hand between the locomotive and backdrop as shown in the cockeyed photograph.

One last one in front of the backdrop.

That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang.  I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.

@Mark Boyce posted:

That should provide more than enough clearance for the front overhang.  I'll move the 2-6-6-2 over to check it out tomorrow.

Good thing that you overbuilt by starting with a 2x4.

If that area is visible via a tunnel portal or access hole, I suggest creating a scene with a lumberjack with an ax or chainsaw.  Or maybe a crew of workers taking measurements and scratching their heads?

Mallard, thank you for the great ideas!  Yes I overbuilt using what I had on hand.  The alternative would have been to take the plywood top off, and move the support.

My intent is to have a building or buildings in front of that spot that will block the view of the opening unless I lean way over.  A retaining wall may be needed behind to make it plausible.  I like the lumberjacks and scratching heads.  Those would be fun.

Now I have about the same clearance here as at the closest point to the backdrop; about the thickness of my fingers.  I tried about every feature I could think of off the TMCC controller, and they all worked except the rear coupler.  I hear the sound and can feel the coil energize if I put my finger on the coupler, but the coupler doesn't open.  I don't know if it is mechanically binding or what.  Otherwise, it all works great.

I started a little more roadbed, but there isn't much new to show.

Mark

I hope your coupler problem is simple and something you can resolve. (why does word spell think coupler is a spelling mistake?) Good grief, we're on a model train forum and COUPLER is a spelling mistake.

Thank you, Keith!  I’ll get it worked out.  Yes, that is silly about spelling check 

Love the engine, Mark....

Peter

Mark, catching up a bit here, and you have made some great progress on your layout. The planning and adjustments are critical to the end result, and you are doing a great job on both fronts! The engine is a beauty, enjoy.

Andy

Thank you, Peter and Andy!!

WOW things look GREAT! Nice work with everything Mark. Happy Memorial Day!

John, Thank you very much!!  I hope you are getting things ready to build your layout!

Hi Mark,

Putting up sheetrock on the train side of the basement. The other side is completed, except for my wife decorating the finishing touches on that side.  No rush for finishing the walls, because I still do not have a clue on layout or for that matter what size and shape of the baseboard. I will have final room measurements for sure. That is about the only thing that will be concrete. Not sure what railroad or cities or industries to include. So far I am looking at a coal mining operation and small town and from there I am not sure! What terrain, what era, what possible railroad line etc. Also looking at how to draw out track with tunnels and different levels. So I have to do a lot of thinking. I would rather do the building rather than the thinking design wise. Btw I was working on remote wifi operated switches and block detection. Those are in the prototype design stage, using small micros that will run off local track power. What are you doing for switches and do you want/have block detection?

Hope you had a great Memorial Day! Again great job on the layout!

John,

Thank you!!  I'm glad you have made much progress on the basement.  I'm sure your wife is happy with the completed side.  I know, it is hard for me to get thoughts together as to what to put on the layout and how to arrange the track and scenery.  I'm glad folks here on this forum helped with ideas and track planning.

Most of my switches will be close to the edge as I was just going to throw them manually with Caboose Industries throws.  I have a couple, and they work well.  I have some DZ1000 electrical throws I will use the switch that comes with them mounted out front near the switch itself.  Nothing very fancy or complicated.  I was not planning to have any block detection or signals.  Again, I want to keep it simple, and with my fairly simple track plan I think it will be fine.  I would rather spend my time on scenery and buildings.

We had a nice Memorial Day.  There was no parade of course, but they flew a C17 from the 911 Airborne over Butler VA Hospital and Butler Memorial Hospital, then they were off to a number of other hospitals.  We got to see that from our backyard as it was on it's way between the two.  We picked up KFC and met both daughters and sons-in-law at my mother-in-law's house for a short get together.  Later, I heard someone a way off playing a bugle.  It was very touching, I thought.

Mark, I have been away for a little and you sure are moving right along! The engine looks amazing and is going to be nice to see it run on your layout! I am glad you were able to do a little carving to get more clearance. 

I hope you and the family are all doing well and enjoying life!

Mike, We are doing fine!  I hope your family is well too.

Thank you, I made a little more progress this week, but haven't taken any photographs yet.  The 2-6-6-2 has helped with getting the transition to flat at the top of the grade smooth.  Going forward it is fine, bt in reverse the front driver raises off the track to the inside of the curve.  I'll have to take it apart and try again.  It is a good thing to find the most picky engine or car and work out the kinks in roadbed and track now.

Have a great weekend!

Mark, I am glad you found it before you got to far into it! Your right that now is the time to fix it. I hope its an easy fix. I also look forward to some new photos!

Take care!

Beautiful engine!  It's always challenging to run an articulated engine for the first time on your layout, you never know for sure until you try it.

Art

Thank you, Mike and Art!

The top of that grade where I have trouble is right at the spot where two sections meet, so it wasn't a smooth transition.  I decided to forgo the attempt to make that joint easy to separate if I ever want to move the layout.  I cut out about 6 inches of the plywood on the level section and put in extra risers that support the joint with a new piece of plywood that extends about 3 inches into the section with the grade.  I then put down newly cut Homasote and cork, staggering the joints.  The screws holding down the end of the plywood pull it down into a slight ark, the top of the grade.  It is a smoother transition.  A GP7 and 0-8-0 went back and forth over it fine.  The 2-6-6-2 lifts the front set of drivers, when I stop and back up, the drivers set back down on the track fine.  However, this won't do.

Since the end of the switch for the passing track is right at the top of the grade, I moved it forward on the level surface 4 inches.  The same engine goes over it fine.  

Two things.  First, this switch is a GarGraves switch.  I had intended to buy a Ross switch, but when I saw a Forum member selling two number 4 switches, I read it as Ross, when it was really GarGraves.  My fault.  I do not know if the 2-6-6-2 would go smoother over a Ross number 4 switch.  My guess is it won't matter.

Second, I could leave the switch where it is now but that cuts the passing siding down to 55 inches.  That is long enough for an H9 steam engine and 4 cars instead of 5 cars.  The only way to make up the difference is to move the switch at the other end out onto the lift up section for access.  That could be done.

I also put in the 054 curve at the bottom of the same grade.  So far so good there.

ScoutingDad suggested to put in a couple sidings with 054/072 switches for engine storage if nothing else.  I temporarily put in one of the switches at the left end of the tunnel where I had to increase clearance.  The switch would be blocked by a building, which could be easily removed for access.  It could work out fine.  The Z4000 will not be where it is now.  I will be putting in a shelf to hold it, the TIU, and TMCC base later.

Here is a view from near the doorway.  It is tough to get everything in the photograph in such a small room.

Great Progress Mark!

Hoping to get going on my layout. I am envious and also inspired by your progress. Keep up the great work.

As for the gargraves mistaken identity, I did a similar mistake with a switch I thought was a ross switch. I can say with having both brands the ross is a far superior switch. Maybe the gargraves switch I got is not typical, it is not as well transitioned and smooth as the ross switches. That is all said from someone who hasn't run a train on either ross or gargraves switches. lol

Mark, I've run Atlas, Gargraves and Ross switches with no significant issues with any. The Ross and Gargraves are not the same height so when screwed down on a flat surface, one track will pull down lower than the other, potentially causing problems. Try putting a 2 or 3 foot level at the junction, you should be able to see any gaps or bumps - shim under the ties appropriately to get that section flat - not level. I have a similar issue with one of my sidings at grade. Rather than building up the bench work to grade - I ended up shimming the track to grade. What a mistake, but too much work to change at this point - I'll keep shimming until I get it right. 

Looking at the photos, I had an MTH 30-1667-1 Great Northern 2-8-8-2 USRA Mallet steamer, I ended up returning to the dealer. The lead wheels would derail at every switch regardless of direction (I tried all three) and whether Atlas, Gargraves or Ross. Seems to me there was not enough mass on the lead wheels to keep them down on the track, so they only were OK running on a  straight or a curve. I thought about adding a spring or lead weight, but decided I did not want to mess with it. 

Mark, its great to see your progress! The other thing you could do is put everything back where it was and if you have a hand planer just shave a little off the top! LOL kind of like a hair cut! Either way your bench work and track work is looking great!

John, Scouting Dad, Mike, Thank you!

John, I can't wait to learn you have gotten started on the layout.  I know what it is like waiting year after year to build a new layout.  I hope to be able to come see it once you get it going!

Scouting Dad, I actually shimmed under the ties at one point once I moved the switch.  More needs done.  If not, I can easily pull the track and layers back up to do what Mike suggested.

Mike, I was using a Stanley Sure-form (I'm not sure if that is what they called them, but it's close) to shave off some before putting the new piece of plywood back down.

I know how I got into this mess.  It was when I realized I hadn't calculated right when I put the Woodland Scenics down for the grade.  I'll keep plugging away and get this layout going to the point I can run trains and build scenery, the two things I like best in the hobby!  

Scouting Dad, I don't know if I am seeing what you said about your RK 2-8-8-2.  The pilot wheels stay where they are supposed to, it is the front set of drivers that lift.  Your issue reminds me of my N scale steamer from the early '80s when I switched from HO to N because of lack of space.  I gave up on those and just ran them with the pilot wheels flopping wherever they wanted.  Without a center third rail, nothing ever shorted out.    I want to see what the H9 Consolidations or the Pacific do, since I only ran the GP7 and 0-8-0 so far.  They were okay.

No worries.  If I keep having issues with one engine, I'll see if someone else wants it.  But for now, I'll try to solve the issue.  I'm retired now, so it's not like this is messing with my mind after a rough day at work.    Thank you everyone!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

OmanMember

Ken

That sounds approximately equivalent to my 16" at each end for 1/4" rise (1.5% transition) for a 3% incline.

Keith

Pardon me for taking the liberty to copy from your layout build topic.  I wanted to bring up the point on my topic where I am having the issue with the vertical easement (transition) at the top of my incline.  So the suggestion is I should have 2 feet of 2% at the top of my 4% grade.  No, I do not have 2 feet of easement for sure.  I only have about 6 inches.  Let me do some looking/investigating on different ways I could fix the problem.  Thank you Keith and Ken.

Mark

For me that was a gut feel number. I don't know what the minimum (that will work) number is. I hope you can resolve it.

@Oman posted:

Mark

For me that was a gut feel number. I don't know what the minimum (that will work) number is. I hope you can resolve it.

I'm doing a little of what Scouting Dad suggested checking with a level, shimming...  It looks like I can get away with less than 2 feet.  I think to make it work, I will have to leave the switch farther to the right of the original plan, and have the siding end on the lift up.  That's no big deal at all.  

I can't say what the transition grade is, but it works.  I left the switch at the new position 6 inches farther from the end of the curve than originally planned and shimmed some places.  The 2-6-6-2 is by far the most finicky piece of equipment I have, and it handled it fine a number of times.  Here is a video of it with a short coal train.  My vision is for this engine to handle mixed freight, with a pair of H9s or RS3s handling the coal trains.  The hoppers were handy, and heavier than the boxcars.  

Sorry, I forgot to blow the whistle.

Awesome Mark! Always great to have that first run. 

Well done Mark. I'm glad that you stopped the locomotive before it ran over that alligator. 

Thank you, Lance, Keith!

Keith, yes I was glad too!  At least that was one of the little gators.  The bigger ones Are on the other end!  
I have trouble operating the phone camera or the remote separately! Both at the same time is tough!  Actually I was glad it turned out as well as it did on the second take!

Mark - Nice job on the track - I did not notice any kind of bump. Camera worked well, can't wait to see the job as it goes.  Jeff

Jeff, thank you very much!  I was pleased to get it going correctly the 3rd time, 4th time, I’m not even sure now!  LOL 

Smooth as Pheobe Snow's silk!

Nice job, Mark!  That backdrop looks awesome!  

Oh, wait.  You were talking about the layout and the train!  Yeah, that's pretty cool, too.   

Seriously, well done!

George

Nice looking!

Peter

Looking good Mark! Always a good idea to use your most cantankerous loco and longest cars when checking out your grades, radius and clearances.

    That’s what makes it fun and challenging. I’ve lost count on  how many times I’ve had to make adjustments to all the above lol

  Spend the time now to do it right and work out the bugs.

  Love the coal train with that Mallet on the point! Longer sidings are always a good thing if possible. Not sure if you tried to run the loco down the grade(reverse direction) yet to check for any tracking issues.

 Glad to see things coming together

Al

Mark, the video shows that you have that transition dialed-in. Eggcellent!

Very nice Mark!

Please post more runs of the big beast streching it's legs

Looks great Mark. I bet you can't get the smile off your face.

Bob

Thank you Palallin, Firewood, George, Peter, Al, Lew, Leandro, EMD, Bob!!!

Satisfying? Yes!  Smile on my face? Yes!  Incredible feeling, Yes!  That backdrop is great looking, George!    

Al, I did try the train downhill and all is swell!!  You are absolutely right, What goes up okay, may not go down so well.  Yes, there is no point going on until each problem area is fixed even if it means tearing it all out and starting over.

EMD, I will post more video as I move forward, not with this engine, but with the H9s, RS3s, and Pacific...and even the BL2 and GP7 just for Bob!

Mark B.

With 34 OGR FORUM entries of comments, you're getting PLENTY of help with your home layout project!  Hobbyists have offered design help, freebie track and switches, even their labor -- all of which can be considered "investments" in your dream and especially in YOU.

Although my 15x19-feet "L" shaped two-level home layout isn't as engaging as your concept, I feel I have "walked in your moccasins" regarding some the issues you are now dealing with:  big dreams but limited space, desired larger curvatures but limited real estate for them, wanting action accessories but no room for their "footprints," construction challenges such as cutting holes through walls, and even height problems such as  joining a table-height platform to a ceiling-shelf route in another room. Mastery of levitation may be required for that maneuver!

It seems that your aspirations will present a claim on your time for the next few years -- nights, weekends, and even some nighttime dreaming.  All part of the fun of engagement in "the world's greatest hobby."

Carry on, regardless ... with best wishes for eventual success,

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394
mottlerm@gmail.com

Hey Mark--what are you using for risers?

Mike, I'm sure you have walked in my moccasins on several of these issues and issues I haven't even brought up on this topic.  Thank you for the encouragement.  It is easier to cope with some of these things now that I am retired.  After working all day, I wasn't into problem solving on a layout to a large extent.

Since I have the table pretty much built all around, except for the lift out opening, I cut a section of Homasote and placed it along the brick wall (bottom in the drawing0, then just put some pieces of track around to come out to the other side of where the lift out will go.  It is there where I discovered another goof, or shall we say deviation from plan.  

When building the 4x4 Mianne section to carry the tracks out into the middle of the room, I moved it over about 5 inches as shown in the squiggly light blue lines so the Mianne would fit okay with a 1-inch plywood overhang on the side.  I don't want it too big because I need to move around, and even at only 170 pounds, there isn't a lot of room to move.  I discovered last night that it won't let me put in the siding in the lower right.  I could replace the plywood with a wider piece that overhangs the edge of the Mianne more to let me put in the siding.

I drew in with gray the siding off the 054/072 curve as Jeff suggested.  I also show one in the lower part of the drawing with a question mark under it.  I also circled the part of the inner loop that will be higher than the outer loop, that I may put on trestles that I can look through to see the Town in the valley.  I'll see how it all goes.  Thank you for looking!!!

@Lyle posted:

Hey Mark--what are you using for risers?

Hi Lyle, you posted while I was typing.  Thank you for the question.  I used 2x4s cut to length since I put down a table top.  This worked okay on the flat portion of the top level.  I did have some trouble getting them all to the right length and had to shim some.  The last ones I did, I was able to make more exact.  On past layouts, I used an open grid benchwork and put in risers held onto the joists by clamps.  Then when I had them exactly where I wanted, I drilled and attached them to the joists with screws.  Since I already had the table top down in this case, I used Woodland Scenics foam incline for the grades.  This restricted me some, but has worked okay.  If I build again, I may go back to the open grid and adjust riser height with clamps as I did long ago.  

Sorry for the long answer to a short question.  Thank you for asking!!!

Very nice Mark and a very smooth climb up that grade nice track work. By the way I love the Retirement sign, where did you get that one?

Thank you, Rick!  My wife found the Retirement Plan sign online somewhere a few years ago.  

Mark, great track work and very nice video! You are right about fixing all the problems as you move along. I wish I would have found some of mine before I moved on. Oh well love and learn. Once again things are looking great!

Mike, My guess is I will overlook problems and find them later on just like you!  

Thank you!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

The hoppers were handy, and heavier than the boxcars. 

Mark

My favorite trains are hoppers and tank cars. I can build a hopper train of 12 K-Line die cast and 4 Atlas O fish belly. I can also add some gondolas (some are die cast). I'm looking forward to seeing what motive power I need on my grades. However, I need more tank cars. 

Keith, Those die cast cars are certainly heavy, but the detail is great.  I have about 20 2-bay hoppers of various manufacturers, but only a couple gondolas.  I have a few tank cars for a mixed train.  I need to test how many cars I can pull with double headed H9s and the RS3s.  There is so much variety of things to do once you get some track down.  

@Mark Boyce posted:

I can't say what the transition grade is, but it works.  I left the switch at the new position 6 inches farther from the end of the curve than originally planned and shimmed some places.  The 2-6-6-2 is by far the most finicky piece of equipment I have, and it handled it fine a number of times.  Here is a video of it with a short coal train.  My vision is for this engine to handle mixed freight, with a pair of H9s or RS3s handling the coal trains.  The hoppers were handy, and heavier than the boxcars.  

Sorry, I forgot to blow the whistle.

Hey Mark, that looks great. Question about the background that I just thought to ask. Are you going to slap some trees where able between the wall and the tracks, and have you thought of possibly putting some other scenery where it is nearly flat? I know it may be impossible to put a regular tree in some spots, but was wondering if something could be made that would be relatively flat. 

Also, looks great going up the climb.

Dave, I do plan to have a little bit of scenery between the track and backdrop.  It will be partial rock cut and vegetation to try to show the train is climbing up the side of the canyon.  I'll do something similar below the track down to a stream, to show the same canyon side.  

It's a lot like Mike Mottler wrote.  I would love to have to have more room to do the scene justice, but I will do it the best I can with what I have.  It's a lot more than I had before I started this project!!  

Mark, thanks for the video. It pulled up the grade with ease. That sign about retirement caught my eye too. Hope to see more soon.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!  I hope to have more to post soon!!

Mark,

Looking good!!  

Nice loco and coal train! Your layout progress is looking good.

Thank you very much, Pete and PennsyNut!!!

Mark, things are really looking great! I hope you had a wonderful weekend and a great time with your lovely wife on her Birthday! 

I look forward to your future updates! I would have commented sooner but life has been busy at the Mike G house!

Thank you Mike!  Yes Kim turned 60 on Friday, Almost 4 years younger than me.  Our younger daughter and her husband came over.  Our other daughter is still hold up at her house since she has some medical issues, and her husband is a manager at a local convenience store.  So she just called.  Kim was at the doctor the day before and learned she will have to stay on Select soft foods for the rest of her life, so she needed the girls to cheer her up.

I’m glad you have been busy with family!

I turned the 2-6-6-2 around and ran downhill, backing uphill a lot yesterday without the slightest trouble, so I think we are good to go!

Mark, the video of your new articulated Steamer is fantastic, pulling the coal train cars up a grade is really cool, looking good. Your work is fun to view, your trackwork is nice. Thanks for sharing your pictures with us. Happy Railroading 

Thank you very much, Larry!!

Today I cut some Homasote for the tabletop level closest to the door.  I had mentioned that I hadn't left room for the siding closest to the aisle.  I decided to put down some Homasote and see how it is for getting in and out of the room for a day or two before deciding to put in a wider piece of plywood.  Four more inches of table cuts the aisle width to 28 1/2 inches.  So far I think it will work out alright.

Mark, your a skinny guy, it should work just fine! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you very much, Larry!!

Today I cut some Homasote for the tabletop level closest to the door.  I had mentioned that I hadn't left room for the siding closest to the aisle.  I decided to put down some Homasote and see how it is for getting in and out of the room for a day or two before deciding to put in a wider piece of plywood.  Four more inches of table cuts the aisle width to 28 1/2 inches.  So far I think it will work out alright.

 

Mark

28" was a possible interior door size back in the 70's. I don't know what code says today. Anyway 28" is more than adequate.

@Oman posted:

Mark

28" was a possible interior door size back in the 70's. I don't know what code says today. Anyway 28" is more than adequate.

Keith, Thank you!  That is the size of this interior door.    It is right up in the corner, with only 1/2-inch of trim, hence- 28 1/2 inches.  Yes, I think I like it.    I think I am smart leaving the extra space on the other 'peninsula' since that is where the sliding glass door opens.  That gives a little more room for turning the corner to move whatever in and out.

@mike g. posted:

Mark, your a skinny guy, it should work just fine! 

I think you are right, Mike! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you very much, Larry!!

Today I cut some Homasote for the tabletop level closest to the door.  I had mentioned that I hadn't left room for the siding closest to the aisle.  I decided to put down some Homasote and see how it is for getting in and out of the room for a day or two before deciding to put in a wider piece of plywood.  Four more inches of table cuts the aisle width to 28 1/2 inches.  So far I think it will work out alright.

Mark, my train-room doorway is 24 inches wide and it is fine. 

It is sounding like the ‘ayes’ have it!  Lew I do remember your door with the lift up in front of it.  Thank you!

I have done a little at a time in the last 2 1/2 weeks.  I finished supporting the Homasote with a cantilevered scabbed in section of plywood.  The extra width hasn't caused me any trouble at all walking through.  I hadn't mentioned I gave up on using the stone flecked spray paint for my roadbed, and have been using brush on gray.  It looks good enough until I get to ballasting.  One coat leaves some dark speckles from the variegated cork which looks good.

I laid out the track from the bottom of the grade closest to the wall and around the bend by the door.  I had to cut off part of the straight portion of two switches, one for the passing siding and the other for the spur to get them to fit up to the edge of the table where the lower lift up will be.  I put in some power drops and with clip leads checked the track.  so far, so good.

Oh, the engine in the first photograph was a recent purchase from a Forum member.  It is an MTH Premier PS2 SD40-2.  The seller pointed out the ditch lights don't work.  Actually they are intermittent.  I'll have to take a look inside.  Yes, I broadened my horizons buying it, as I like the black fireball or speed lettering better than the red, white, black scheme used in the latter days of the Western Maryland.  It was a deal I couldn't pass up. 

Mark! 

It's wonderful work ! Very Nice!

Looking good Mark. I like the SD-40 too!