Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Mark,

I learn something from everything you post! But I wouldn’t sweat how perfectly  the brick is. When I was a kid, my grandparents lived in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn. Most of the cobblestone streets had be covered with concrete which the over the years had worn away, exposing the stone streets. The passage of time and traffic had worn down the “ bricks” to the point where they were very uneven and some were so worn as to be indistinct. So I wouldn’t worry about roughness. Once they’re painted and weathered they’ll look fine.

The foam wall looks great Mark!

@ScoutingDad posted:

Bob, could you with clay, yes, would you want to, maybe not. Plaster, foam, drywall, wood, masonitw can all be used to make a portal. There are so many good portals out there, why not buy one? Save the time for the things you cannot find or are too pricy for the budget. There are all kinds of rollers out there for making just about any surface you might want out of clay. There are even foam rollers.

Jeff, Thanks; but let me give you the back story. My son is finally starting a layout. He cut a hole between two rooms to make the yards longer. He asked his adult daughter to paint a portal; she replied that he should glue rocks to the wall. He said it's probably larger than a 2 track portal.  Problem is I'll never see it first hand. It's a dangerous staircase for an able bodied person. I took enough space on Mark's thread.

That’s a good potential concept Mark. Even on the right could be made to look like cement falling away.

Thank you, Rubin, Mike, Bob, Jay!

Rubin, You are right about the way the bricks or stones are weathered/dislodged over the years.  My thoughts have been based on the 2-foot rule, where how much detail is there when looking at a model/scenery from 2 feet away, or in O scale 96 inches away.  So, what would the real brick street look like from rounding to 100 feet away?  As far as the brick street goes, it would probably be somewhere between the first try and the second try.  I did say I was going to practice painting and weathering the first try, but haven't yet.  Actually, either of them would work just fine suggesting a brick street as opposed to an asphalt one.

Mike, isn't it interesting how a comment by Bob got me thinking abut what a piece of foam would look like with the roller impression.

Bob, I am certainly not opposed to side discussions on this thread like the one you started about making portals.  It is still modeling brick or stonework.

Jay, yes I was 'impressed' too with the impression the roller left on Styrofoam.  There could certainly be a use for that technique on the layout.  Maybe other rollers with different brick or stone designs would be worth looking at.  It certainly was quicker than measuring and carving. 

Thank you everyone for taking a look-see!

Mark, i just realized this thread was yours!  Impressive going back to 2017.  I'll read over from the beginning as time allows...great progress you've made over the past few years,,,

Thank you, Paul!  I’m glad you want to read from the beginning.  Be prepared for several twists and turns as you proceed.  The initial plan looks nothing like what is there now.  😃

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Rubin, Mike, Bob, Jay!

Rubin, You are right about the way the bricks or stones are weathered/dislodged over the years.  My thoughts have been based on the 2-foot rule, where how much detail is there when looking at a model/scenery from 2 feet away, or in O scale 96 inches away.  So, what would the real brick street look like from rounding to 100 feet away?  As far as the brick street goes, it would probably be somewhere between the first try and the second try.  I did say I was going to practice painting and weathering the first try, but haven't yet.  Actually, either of them would work just fine suggesting a brick street as opposed to an asphalt one.

Mike, isn't it interesting how a comment by Bob got me thinking abut what a piece of foam would look like with the roller impression.

Bob, I am certainly not opposed to side discussions on this thread like the one you started about making portals.  It is still modeling brick or stonework.

Jay, yes I was 'impressed' too with the impression the roller left on Styrofoam.  There could certainly be a use for that technique on the layout.  Maybe other rollers with different brick or stone designs would be worth looking at.  It certainly was quicker than measuring and carving. 

Thank you everyone for taking a look-see!

Another possible experiment would be to coat the foam board with joint compound, let it set up some, and then roll the bricks.

It’s great getting all of these ideas and then seeing the experiments.

Thank you, Jay!

That's another good suggestion.  The possibilities are almost endless.

After pealing the second clay try, I saw it did this.  A crown is nice, but this is a bit much! 

Some differences from the first try.  The second was formed on the particle board instead of birch plywood.  Maybe it absorbed moisture.  I painted the particle board and the second coat is drying.  Second, I pealed it off about after the second day instead of the 4th day.  This one measured about 4 mm thick instead of about 2 1/2 mm.  I'll make the next one thinner like Jeff suggested.

I painted both strips using a mix of burnt umber and red.  Then I gave both a wash of a dark gray on the upper part of the strips in this photograph.  I think they are pretty close to the local brick streets with minimal effort so far.  A little variety in the brick color would be nice, but I don't know if I have the patience for that. 

Another variation is a dull yellow for the bricks.  Streets near where our younger daughter lives and around the courthouse have that color brick.  I haven't taken any photographs of them.

No worries about puddles forming on those streets.

Looks good Mark! Keep trying and I know you will get the outcome your looking for!

Mark, clay loses water as it dries so it will shrink. The challenge is to control the shrink. Making the clay sheet thin helps with quicker drying. Using a porous material like wood as a substrate will pull water faster from the bottom causing the cupping. I formed my sheets on a modeling mat which worked pretty well. Covering the clay with a damp towel would help slow down the uneven drying. My trolley brick was formed in place on plywood. As long as the wood is damp, the clay will stick and.not be able to cup.  You might be able to flatten your bricks by turning face down, covering with a damp towel and weighting it down for 12 to 24 hours. Not sure if the drying of this material is reversible, but worth a try.

Thank you, Steve, Mike, Jeff!

Steve,

Mike,

Jeff, I know you shared instructions and observations with me in at least a couple posts.  I thought I could find them, but didn't come up with all of them.    Thank you for posting suggestions again.  I am ready to do some more brick paving and cleared a wide spot on the layout to provide enough elbow room for the straight street perpendicular to the layout edge.  I'll follow your suggestions dampening the plywood, rolling the clay out to about 2 mm, make sure the roller stays damp, and report back in a couple days.  Thank you.

I trimmed two sections that I molded right on the layout.  They came out pretty nicely, I think.  I trimmed some of the first section that I made and started painting to fill in the back street and a section that I had miscalculated.  That does it for the strait sections of the streets.  Now it's time for the two curves.  Thank you, Jeff!

Wow, looks nice Mark.

It's amazing how brick and stone streets are still around. They survived the elements and time.

John

@Mark Boyce posted:

I trimmed two sections that I molded right on the layout.  They came out pretty nicely, I think.  I trimmed some of the first section that I made and started painting to fill in the back street and a section that I had miscalculated.  That does it for the strait sections of the streets.  Now it's time for the two curves.  Thank you, Jeff!

Wow Mark, this could be a perfect, authentic match! The distressed brick shading and aging cement/mortar imperfections look just perfect. Do you think it will keep the same look when you give it the brick red color? Keep up the great work.

Gene

@Mark Boyce posted:

I trimmed two sections that I molded right on the layout.  They came out pretty nicely, I think.  I trimmed some of the first section that I made and started painting to fill in the back street and a section that I had miscalculated.  That does it for the strait sections of the streets.  Now it's time for the two curves.  Thank you, Jeff!

Everything's looking great Mark. Love the brick.

It was a massive amount of work, but it appears to be worth it. Great job!

Mark, when you paint the brick, consider starting with the "seam" color. I used a dark wash to get the tint I wanted between bricks. Then I used a sponge and brushes with various colors to get the brick color. Kind of backward from doing a building, but it worked for me. I kept the brush lightly loaded so I was not getting blobs all over the place. Kind of like dry-brushing but without wasting all that paint.

Mark looks like a great base coat! Keep up the wonderful work!

Thank you Jeff and Mark for sharing your research and experimentation. This is something that I will be pursuing. And, good luck with creating the curves as we look forward to the outcome.

Jay

I like the gray color, it reminds me of the Belgian block  paving in Baltimore. Belgian blocks were cut granite(?) blocks used as ballast in empty sailing ships coming to Baltimore for outbound loadings. These would pile up around the harbor (huge piles over the years) and someone got the idea to use them as paving instead of bricks. The Belgian blocks were free and bricks had to be bought. Note that hey never wore out like other common forms of paving.

Thank you, John, Gene, Dave Ripp, Myles, Jeff, Mike, Jay, Dave PRRMP54!

John, It is amazing.  We have potholes everywhere in asphalt, but the 120-year old brick streets are fine!

Gene, I'm not sure if it will have the same effect.  Maybe if I don't put on too much paint. 

Dave, you could give it a try on the town you are building.  It would be neat to do around your passenger station. 

Myles, it is a good bit of work.  ScoutingDad Jeff did this, and I even said I wasn't going to go to the effort.  I wasn't sure how I would get the curves to look right with brick embossed sheets.  Jeff said it would be worth the effort, and was right.  I have half of the just over 6 feet of street left to do.

Jeff, I will try painting the seam color first as you suggested and see how it goes.

Mike, I'm glad the results look good.  It takes a lot of pressing down to roll it out flat and then getting the brick imprint embossed deep enough.

Jay, Jeff's The Man!  Yes - the curves!    That may result in some trial and error wasted clay.  I have plenty, and it is inexpensive.  Please make sure you show us yours when you get to that.

Dave, I can see where this already resembles the Belgian blocks.  Thank you for the information on where they came from.  I can see they would last as long as some Roman roads.

I mentioned above, but I will here again.  The brick streets here in Butler don't seem to be effected with the salt they put on the roads in the winter.  They take a pretty good beating with traffic as well.  The road our older daughter lives on what was the original Old Plank Road to Pittsburgh.  It winds down the hill past our daughter's to the bridge into town.  It doesn't get truck traffic, since State Route 8 was built to Pittsburgh in the 1930s.  However, there is still a lot of car and bus traffic.  The rows of bricks have slipped down the hill in varying rates so the rows look wavy.  Up on the hill the rows are still straight.  The only dips are where the dug it up for utilities, then replaced the bricks.  I have been paying more attention, and you can see when they got a new batch of bricks as there is a distinct line where the bricks change from a reddish brown to a little less reddish. 

I haven't decided whether I will try to roll some clay on one of the curves or try Jeff's painting approach on what I have first.  My hands are hurting from painting one side of the hallway earlier today. 

You deserve a break Mark.

My in-laws live not far from the Bellevue area and there are several brick streets. The only holes are from plumbers replacing lines from the houses.            

Mark, here are close ups of the curved brick. The curve is about 18 inch radius. I used the track as a guide while I rolled around the curve. Presumably the clay on the inside of the radius is getting mashed a little. There is a trick to rolling the inside slower than the outside. Kind of like trying to pivot around the inner portion of the roller. As long as you keep rolling in one direction the bricks seem to turn out ok.  I rolled the clay out in place as I thought I would be easier to imprint in place given the radius changes from inside to out.  The gaps between the bricks were dark until ModgePodge gloss dried cloudy. Not happy

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, John, Gene, Dave Ripp, Myles, Jeff, Mike, Jay, Dave PRRMP54!

John, It is amazing.  We have potholes everywhere in asphalt, but the 120-year old brick streets are fine!

Gene, I'm not sure if it will have the same effect.  Maybe if I don't put on too much paint.

Dave, you could give it a try on the town you are building.  It would be neat to do around your passenger station. 

Myles, it is a good bit of work.  ScoutingDad Jeff did this, and I even said I wasn't going to go to the effort.  I wasn't sure how I would get the curves to look right with brick embossed sheets.  Jeff said it would be worth the effort, and was right.  I have half of the just over 6 feet of street left to do.

Jeff, I will try painting the seam color first as you suggested and see how it goes.

Mike, I'm glad the results look good.  It takes a lot of pressing down to roll it out flat and then getting the brick imprint embossed deep enough.

Jay, Jeff's The Man!  Yes - the curves!    That may result in some trial and error wasted clay.  I have plenty, and it is inexpensive.  Please make sure you show us yours when you get to that.

Dave, I can see where this already resembles the Belgian blocks.  Thank you for the information on where they came from.  I can see they would last as long as some Roman roads.

I mentioned above, but I will here again.  The brick streets here in Butler don't seem to be effected with the salt they put on the roads in the winter.  They take a pretty good beating with traffic as well.  The road our older daughter lives on what was the original Old Plank Road to Pittsburgh.  It winds down the hill past our daughter's to the bridge into town.  It doesn't get truck traffic, since State Route 8 was built to Pittsburgh in the 1930s.  However, there is still a lot of car and bus traffic.  The rows of bricks have slipped down the hill in varying rates so the rows look wavy.  Up on the hill the rows are still straight.  The only dips are where the dug it up for utilities, then replaced the bricks.  I have been paying more attention, and you can see when they got a new batch of bricks as there is a distinct line where the bricks change from a reddish brown to a little less reddish.

I haven't decided whether I will try to roll some clay on one of the curves or try Jeff's painting approach on what I have first.  My hands are hurting from painting one side of the hallway earlier today. 

Dave, you could give it a try on the town you are building.  It would be neat to do around your passenger station.

Mark, it's been on my mind LOL.

Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Dave!

Jay, It's been a long time since I was in Bellevue.  I looked on Google Maps and see a lot of yellowish tan streets like are in the northeast part of Butler near the hospital.  Yes, they are staking up the bricks and relaying them when they finish each part of the pipe work by our younger daughter's in-laws.  I'm going to watch and see if they sink or not since I am witnessing the repair.  I think the slight bumps and dips on my clay streets mimic that without even trying. 

Jeff, thank you for the great photograph and description of rolling on the curve.  Yours really looks nice.  My curves aren't as tight a radius as yours, so hopefully it will turn out right the first or second try.

Dave,

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Color looks nice Mark.  You could dab areas with other colors for more variation in the brick. Chalks could be used to lay down tire wear. Nice work. Jeff

I think the color looks good Mark. The brick road.i worked on was always filled with sand between the bricks. We would do our repairs, put sand over everything compact with a small roller and then a mobile broom to pick up the loose sand and save it for next time.

I am sure it will be great what ever you decide!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Dave!

Jay, It's bee a long time since I was in Bellevue.  I looked on Google Maps and see a lot of yellowish tan streets like are in the northwest part of Butler near the hospital.  Yes, they are staking up the bricks and relaying them when they finish each part of the pipe work by our younger daughter's in-laws.  I'm going to watch and see if they sink or not since I am witnessing the repair.  I think the slight bumps and dips on my clay streets mimic that without even trying. 

Jeff, thank you for the great photograph and description of rolling on the curve.  Yours really looks nice.  My curves aren't as tight a radius as yours, so hopefully it will turn out right the first or second try.

Dave,

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Mark, you nailed it, congratulations. Thank you for sharing your work. Now: Onto the curves.

Mark,

That paint job is just masterful! Well done!

@Mark Boyce

Mark,  that looks fantastic. You've gone from novice to Master Bricklayer in a very short time.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Mark, the red looks as perfect as you could get. Like you mentioned, just try to get more of the mortar joints defined. Nicely done!

Gene

@Mark Boyce posted:

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Looks great Mark. Some weathering will put it over the top.

Bob

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Dave!

Jay, It's bee a long time since I was in Bellevue.  I looked on Google Maps and see a lot of yellowish tan streets like are in the northwest part of Butler near the hospital.  Yes, they are staking up the bricks and relaying them when they finish each part of the pipe work by our younger daughter's in-laws.  I'm going to watch and see if they sink or not since I am witnessing the repair.  I think the slight bumps and dips on my clay streets mimic that without even trying. 

Jeff, thank you for the great photograph and description of rolling on the curve.  Yours really looks nice.  My curves aren't as tight a radius as yours, so hopefully it will turn out right the first or second try.

Dave,

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Looking fantastic!

Peter

Looks great !

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Dave!

Jay, It's been a long time since I was in Bellevue.  I looked on Google Maps and see a lot of yellowish tan streets like are in the northeast part of Butler near the hospital.  Yes, they are staking up the bricks and relaying them when they finish each part of the pipe work by our younger daughter's in-laws.  I'm going to watch and see if they sink or not since I am witnessing the repair.  I think the slight bumps and dips on my clay streets mimic that without even trying. 

Jeff, thank you for the great photograph and description of rolling on the curve.  Yours really looks nice.  My curves aren't as tight a radius as yours, so hopefully it will turn out right the first or second try.

Dave,

I painted all the depressions with charcoal gray and let it dry overnight.  Then I mixed burnt sienna with red and tried to paint only the tops of the bricks.  I got some in the gaps.  I'll wash it with some charcoal gray when it is good and dry and see what it looks like.

Mark, upon further review, I focused in where the bricks line up with the sidewalk and I think the color is realistic. I concur with Jeff that some smudges, oil stains, etc. will enhance the outcome. Try putting some autos and people crossing the street for the effect.

Thank you, Jeff, Mike, Jay, Rubin, Bob pennsyfan, Gene, Bob RSJB18, Peter, Richie!

Wow, what feedback!  I agree, I need to touch up the joints, some variation in brick color, weathering to show travel, and some cars and pedestrians.  Thank you, everyone!!!

I rolled the curved sections of brick streets a couple days ago, and they are dry now.  I trimmed them to width since taking the photographs while parts were still a little moist.  While neither section turned out exactly as I had imagined, they are really close.  On the left side, my pivots of the roller weren't smooth, but still looks good.

The right hand side pivoted better, but I got a little off from where I intended, but it will work out fine.

Yesterday, I took a couple photographs of the brick road in front of her house.  This is the road that winds down the hill into town.  The white between bricks is salt residue.  Why should I worry if my pivots of the roller weren't smooth flowing.  Those fellows back in 1905 certainly weren't worried about it. 

I hope to do some painting tomorrow (famous last words).  After a nice week, the weatherman predicts rain.

That’s a milestone Mark; congratulations. I think you’ll be pleased with the outcome once it’s all in place. If there is an area you aren’t pleased with you can put a vehicle in the vicinity. No one will ever know.