Blackwater Canyon Line - November 17, 2024 - Scratch Built Church

OH, those are pretty cool. I'll have to look them up. maybe get a few and try them on our test layout.  We know we will be doing our layout in SuperO.  The connecting pins (outside rails) are straight flat copper pins, so these are kind of similar.  The pwr buss connector is also copper but diff config.  We may be able to apply your style connectors for gnd connectors on our outside rails (for same purpose - to reduce soldering).  Ctr pwr connectors may require a diff solution.

Also, yes, wider radius curves do eat up the space don't they.  For our layout, we've tried to design-in the largest curves wherever we can. So its a mix of 042's, 048, 054, 060, 072 - mostly in the 054 size. Wherever possible I did try to use easements coming into and out of a turn - but it wasn't always possible. 

I like your spray paint too.  we'll try that as well on the test layout too.  Planning on using homosote as roadbed.  Did back in the 90's. Liked it.

So many trains, so little time,

Tom   

Looks good Mark! I’m glad to see your progress. I know how you feel about ballasting; I’m still traumatized 

Andy

Mark,

Called my son & said we can get bigger curves if we put in a jack post and move the wall out a bit.  It's only a framed 2x4 wall right now so it would be easier to do. Sure it's load bearing but we can work around that.   

Hello, hello...   I think we got cut off

Tom, Thank you.  I used Homasote with cork to build up a roadbed back in my HO days, so figured I would do the same in O gauge.  I've been in O since 2012, but this is the first I am really building benchwork and realistic scenery like in HO.  I got all this old Homasote from in my mother-in-law's basement.  The lady she bought from was a seamstress and had a 4 x 10 sheet of Homasote on top of her work table.  The whole thing was measured off in 1" apart parallel lines.  There were lots of pinholes in it, but I only found one pin jabbed in sideways.  I got the O gauge cork from a local Forum member.  Met him at the Sheetz convenience store a mile away.

I don't know why Super O didn't stick on the market.  The track looks great!!  I'll be glad to see what you are doing someday.

Mark Boyce posted:

I reported in my progress a few times on the "What did you do on your layout today" topic.  Here is a summary.  I glued down and sanded cork roadbed.  Before laying track I spray painted the cork with Rustoleum American Accents Stone Gray Stone spray paint.  I saw another Forum member write about this, so it is not my idea.  I like to put in most of my scenery before ballasting.  I think it is very passable in the meantime for ballasted track.  Who knows, maybe I will never actually ballast the track.  I don't like ballasting.

Here is what the second section i did looks like.  I must caution you that little hard particles will float around and get on everything within a couple feet.  They can be scraped off without damage, but if my wife had noticed them on a couple items in the room, she wouldn't have been happy.

Thinking of a recent discussion on track screws on the  "What did you do on your layout today" topic, I decided I was going t get #4 flathead screws and countersink.  I stopped at C. T. McCormick Hardware a couple weeks ago to pick up the Ross curved switch I needed, and Jeff showed me these #4 screws he stocks especially for what I wanted to do.  They are already black.  Hooray!  No daubing on paint and risking filling the x slot in the head.

So the next two photographs show how it looks right now.  I have gaps and power drops installed where I think they will be appropriate.  I then ran some temporary wire across the floor from the other room where the Z4000 and TIU now reside.  I clipped onto each drop to check that an engine could run okay.  I didn't do anymore wiring because I plan to locate the TIU on the yet to be built benchwork in the middle of the layout.  That will be the next phase of benchwork.

Here is how the flathead screws look.

 

Monday, I placed an order for the second load of Mianne Benchwork that will take care of most of the length of the layout along the brick wall.

Thank you for taking a look.

Mark, I loved ! I think to make in my track-bed, but I bought a woodland ! 

Would it be all right?

I found this product in Brazil !!!

Fantastic !!

Andy, Thank you!  Yes, ballasting can be tedious, especially when the modeler is as picky as I am wanting straight edges on the ballast like on a mainline!  Ha ha!

Tom, Ar you there, are you there!  Call 911, I think the load fell on Tom!!    Well, if you are still in the process of putting in walls, you can make some adjustments.  There is a 15" bump out in the middle half of this room, which is the bathroom on the other side off the laundry.  As it is, the bathroom is too narrow, so it would have been nice if they had made it say 18" wider, but that would have interfered with the trains here.  The house is 51 years old, and I'll work around the shortcomings!

Leandro, Thank you.  So you have Woodland Scenics roadbed, which is a softer foam isn't it?  I would think paint would make it a little harder, but then when you put glue and ballast on it, that puts a hard surface on it too.  All I can think of is try some paint on a couple feet of the Woodland Scenics and see how it turns out.  That's great you found the Woodland Scenics in Brazil.  We take for granted what is available in the USA, but never know for sure how hard it is to get in any particular country.

Mark,  It was George who got me on here.  It's all his fault.  We were in scouts together in Weirton back in the day. Ran into him recently at a scout reunion & had no idea he was a train guy too.  Small world.   BTW, Parsons - aww man. You're taking me back.  Spent a whole lot of time throughout the early 70's backpacking ALL over WV and driving around all those little towns getting to a trailhead.  Places like Parsons, Petersburg, Marlington, elkins, etc  - before they built I79.

Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, Thank you.  I use a ScotchBright to clean the tops of the rails.

Lew, Just be careful where you spray the texture paint.  I suppose it would be best to have an exhaust fan or do it outdoors.  Neither option was available on the roadbed.  I need to figure something out before I do that again.

Richie, Thank you.  Yes, I like the flatheads.  Oh another thing.  I did not use any glue on the track.  I want to be able to lift it up very easily if I need to.  Also, I always leave the switches float-no screws so the mechanism can work well.  I learned that from a Kalmbach publication back in my HO days.

That's good advice for someone starting out, Mark - I did the same on my recently completed Fastrack layout - no track screws in any switch and only one screw every 5-6 sections to keep it from possibly moving around and go lightly when tightening the screws down - you don't want to crank them down really tight and deform the track.

Mark Boyce posted:

Leandro, Thank you.  So you have Woodland Scenics roadbed, which is a softer foam isn't it?  I would think paint would make it a little harder, but then when you put glue and ballast on it, that puts a hard surface on it too.  All I can think of is try some paint on a couple feet of the Woodland Scenics and see how it turns out.  That's great you found the Woodland Scenics in Brazil.  We take for granted what is available in the USA, but never know for sure how hard it is to get in any particular country.

Mark, Thanks !

But I found the Spray Stone Texture !

I will buy and I will test with roadbed ! 

Thanks

TomSuperO posted:

Mark,  It was George who got me on here.  It's all his fault.  We were in scouts together in Weirton back in the day. Ran into him recently at a scout reunion & had no idea he was a train guy too.  Small world.   BTW, Parsons - aww man. You're taking me back.  Spent a whole lot of time throughout the early 70's backpacking ALL over WV and driving around all those little towns getting to a trailhead.  Places like Parsons, Petersburg, Marlington, elkins, etc  - before they built I79.

Tom, That is great you ran into George at the reunion!!  So where do you live now?  

Yes, I've been to all those places.  No more hiking for me though, except the short easy trails.  I still find it hard to believe I climbed to the top of Seneca Rock way back!  1982, I believe.  The front side, not Heart Attack Hill in the back.  I worked at the Vepco Mount Storm Power Station for a while, but have been back in our native Butler County since '96.

Richie C. posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, Thank you.  I use a ScotchBright to clean the tops of the rails.

Lew, Just be careful where you spray the texture paint.  I suppose it would be best to have an exhaust fan or do it outdoors.  Neither option was available on the roadbed.  I need to figure something out before I do that again.

Richie, Thank you.  Yes, I like the flatheads.  Oh another thing.  I did not use any glue on the track.  I want to be able to lift it up very easily if I need to.  Also, I always leave the switches float-no screws so the mechanism can work well.  I learned that from a Kalmbach publication back in my HO days.

That's good advice for someone starting out, Mark - I did the same on my recently completed Fastrack layout - no track screws in any switch and only one screw every 5-6 sections to keep it from possibly moving around and go lightly when tightening the screws down - you don't want to crank them down really tight and deform the track.

In HO, you could nail down some track and bend the plastic ties so much you could tighten the gauge.  N scale is even easier to mess up.  I've done both.  

Leandro Garcia posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Leandro, Thank you.  So you have Woodland Scenics roadbed, which is a softer foam isn't it?  I would think paint would make it a little harder, but then when you put glue and ballast on it, that puts a hard surface on it too.  All I can think of is try some paint on a couple feet of the Woodland Scenics and see how it turns out.  That's great you found the Woodland Scenics in Brazil.  We take for granted what is available in the USA, but never know for sure how hard it is to get in any particular country.

Mark, Thanks !

But I found the Spray Stone Texture !

I will buy and I will test with roadbed ! 

Thanks

That's it Leandro!  I had to mail order my second batch too because the local store was out and didn't know when they would reorder!  Use several light coatings as with regular spray paint.  It can gob up on your roadbed, and don't have anything nearby, or you can get little specks of the granules that are in the paint to give it the rough texture.

Happy railway construction !  Keep us posted    ….     Pat

Thank you, Pat!

Being an HO convert, finding those pin-tails ( ) must have been like finding a long lost friend. I didn't even notice them; I had to zoom. (hey, it let me post here! ..... maybe )

I've used the stone fleck  paint to good effect. Suggestion: Get a can of flat gray latex paint and paint the cork or whatever roadbed you are using first. Then after that dries, come back with the spray cans of stone fleck. You will find a can goes a LOT farther!

The shot below shows how it looks. The cork roadbed was glued down, and then the flat gray was painted on both the roadbed and the foam support. This also had the desired effect of sealing the foam against the solvent in the spray paint. Let it dry, then hit it with the fleck.  After  everything dries, install the track. I glued it to the roadbed with Liquid Nails.

Chris

LVHR

I haven't had a full set of tools here in a while, so I just read along fyi Marc. 

 You got lucky IMO. (Apply that to the above sentence or let it start what's written below )

Overspray with a slow dry paint is often "dangerous". It has to be a very fast flashing paint that will dry to dust before it can go far enough and stick. Otherwise, break out the giant plastic "Handi-wrap-tarp"(the cheap stuff, and if you let the paint dry fully without messing with it, much of the misting can then be soft paint brushed/shaken off, then the plastic rolled up or folded, and stored away for the next use. The number of uses varies as large spots will flake eventually. A no-no around new paints, first flakes show you toss it before shoes, air, and Murphy move flakes around.)

  Most of Rusty's products are a slow to medium handling cure time. (full cure on original Rusty is about a month imo, and even then a year or two later it is even harder to the touch.)

Mark,

It is great to follow your progress on your layout

You have always had positive comments on anyone’s efforts or questions raised on the forum, and to see your enthusiasm and results on your own build is fun for all of us

Keep up the great work and enjoy 

Jerry

jpc posted:

Mark,

It is great to follow your progress on your layout

You have always had positive comments on anyone’s efforts or questions raised on the forum, and to see your enthusiasm and results on your own build is fun for all of us

Keep up the great work and enjoy 

Jerry

 

Ditto!  I have really enjoyed watching this grow from an idea, a mighty oak from a tiny acorn

Butch and Chris, those are all great points about spraying the flecked paint.  I did see I used a lot of it and the base coat of gray will be just the ticket!  Chris, the track in your photograph looks great!!

Jerry, Thank you very much!!  I am excited, since this is the first I have been able to build a layout other than a temporary Christmas layout and my shelf Ceiling Central RR since our daughters were preschool.  They are 28 and 26 now.  

Pallalin, I really like they way you put it.  Yes, it has been an interesting journey these last two years.  I could never have come up with this plan without all the great Forum friends and all the great suggestions!

Mark Boyce posted:

TomSuperO posted:

Mark,  It was George who got me on here.  It's all his fault.  We were in scouts together in Weirton back in the day. Ran into him recently at a scout reunion & had no idea he was a train guy too.  Small world.   BTW, Parsons - aww man. You're taking me back.  Spent a whole lot of time throughout the early 70's backpacking ALL over WV and driving around all those little towns getting to a trailhead.  Places like Parsons, Petersburg, Marlington, elkins, etc  - before they built I79.

Tom, That is great you ran into George at the reunion!!  So where do you live now?  

Yes, I've been to all those places.  No more hiking for me though, except the short easy trails.  I still find it hard to believe I climbed to the top of Seneca Rock way back!  1982, I believe.  The front side, not Heart Attack Hill in the back.  I worked at the Vepco Mount Storm Power Station for a while, but have been back in our native Butler County since '96.

Mark,   We had a little reunion down at Olgebay Park in Wheeling WV. Guys came in from all over. Was a great time watching old movies of us as kids. My uncle was the scout master. I was born and raised in Steubenville Oh. Moved across the river to Weirton in 80 and returned to steub in 2016. The picture that was posted of the old fort steuben bridge brought back some memories. Crossed that a million times.  It was narrow.  Just downstream from the RR bridge George is modelling, is the market st bridge. It's still there in use and is painted blue and gold and lighted in blue at night (WV owns the bridge).  Can't miss it flying over it into pitt at night from pts south.  Many people don't know that it is the sister bridge to the one that collapsed in point pleasant Oh back in the day - from which the mothman movie was about.        Yeah, that's a nice hike up to Sceneca  Rocks.  Used to rock climb there in college. Read a book said " 1st rule of climbing - never climb higher than you're willing to fall" 

I quit.

Tom

Tom, Thank you for the reply!!  I am one who did not know the Market Street Bridge is a sister bridge to the Point Pleasant Bridge.  I did not see Mothman, but there was a lot of hoopla around here since they used the bridge in Kittanning for filming; about 25 miles from me in Butler.

Well, It's my topic, so I'm permitting we take a short trip off the tracks.  

I had done a little repelling at nearby McConnells Mill State Park, but no rock climbing as such.  I have a high school classmate, who I still see at church, who is into his 41st year now working as an outdoor experience leader for a college ministry organization.  One of the many times I was laid off was in '82 and I went on several outdoor trips with him as an extra chaperone.  He asked me about going to Seneca Rock, and I knew the place having stopped there to look at it and take some photographs a few years before.  I told him I had never climbed before, and he said that's okay, I could puttsy around at the bottom.  The first day, we called it quits in the rock field because of approaching inclement weather.  The second day was beautiful.  My friend didn't mention it, but after a while I realized I was going to the top!  That dirty dog!    I need to digitize some photographs, and the ones I took from the top will be some of the first.

I quit a long time ago! 

Hello Mark, the name of your railroad reminds me of a Blackwater River in the Republic of Ireland. I think the source is in County Limerick, flows through County Cork, and flows into the Atlantic Ocean in County Waterford. My wife and I went to a wedding over there in 2007; the wedding mass was outside of Mallow, Cork and the reception was in a hotel in County Limerick. A heavy rain storm came in during the night and caused massive flooding from top to bottom so that fields that were pastures became lakes and any roads just above river level became impassable parts of the river.

Keep up the good work!

Art,

That is neat you saw a Blackwater River in Ireland.  I looked it up on Wikipedia just to see where it is in the Republic of Ireland. 

The Blackwater or Munster Blackwater (Irish: An Abha Mhór, The Big River) is a river which flows through counties Kerry, Cork, and Waterford in Ireland. It rises in the Mullaghareirk Mountains in County Kerry and then flows in an easterly direction through County Cork, through Mallow and Fermoy. It then enters County Waterford where it flows through Lismore, before abruptly turning south at Cappoquin, and finally draining into the Celtic Sea at Youghal Harbour. In total, the Blackwater is 169 km (105 mi) long. The total catchment area of the River Blackwater is 3,324 km².^[2] The long term average flow rate of the River Blackwater is 89.1 Cubic Metres per second (m³/s)^[3]

Interestingly, there is another Blackwater River in Northern Ireland also. 

The River Blackwater or Ulster Blackwater is a river in County Armagh and County Tyrone, Northern Ireland. It also forms part of the border between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, flowing between counties Tyrone and Monaghan, intersecting into Monaghan briefly. Its source is to the north of Fivemiletown, County Tyrone. The river divides County Armagh from County Tyrone and also divides County Tyrone from County Monaghan.  

The Blackwater's length is 91.3 km (56.75 mi).^[2] If the Blackwater's flow is measured through its path through the 30 km (19 mi) Lough Neagh and onwards to the sea via the 64.4 km (40ml) Lower Bann, the total length is 186.3 km (115.75 mi). This makes the Blackwater–Neagh–Bann the longest natural stream flow in Ulster and is longer than the Munster Blackwater.

Thank you for the encouraging words!

I didn't get much done today except trying different mocked up heights for the upper turn-back loop.  I hope to work on it tomorrow because it I don't have any appointments, and they are forecasting rain and snow.  Hopefully I'll have some photographs then.

Come on Mark, if you did some mock up's then you did something! Don't cut yourself short!

Mike, You are absolutely correct!  Thank you for the encouragement!!

Well Mike, I did get time to build the top section today.  I could have asked Tim Foley to make custom second level, but thought for the small effort on my part, I would save some money not having him do custom work.  I am happy with the results.  

I had decided that the 1x4s I had on hand would make the top level too high if I left enough space to get my hands in to correct derailments.  I found some poplar at Lowes.  So I made the top frame out of 1x2 poplar and positioned it above the lower level with 2x2 poplar.  The small quantity I bought didn't cost that much.  I used some L-brackets to hold the 2x2 legs to the bottom level table.  There is one in the center also that I just cut to the correct size and uses carpenter's glue only.  I wasn't looking for structural strength, just something to keep the middle from sagging.

Here is the frame with temporary supports to check spacing.

Here it is with the 4 corner 2x2s fastened top and bottom.  Mike, Notice my low tech level that I am sure is older than I am.  

Here it is with the plywood top fastened down and the track is just sitting in place to give an idea of where it will go.  I need to buy another Ross curved 054/070 switch.  I have the switch for the siding.

Here is a better view of the BL-2 and the tallest boxcar I have.  The opening is 5-1/2" tall.  The overall climb will be 8".  I would have liked it to not be quite as much, but I need the 5-1/2" opening.  The prototype Blackwater grade was 3%, so this will be fitting.

Thank you for looking!!!

Looking good Mark. Enjoy following your progress.

Thank you, Dave!!  Yes, you had so much input in the plan, I’m sure you are happy to seeing it coming together!!

Mark, Looks great! your carpenter skills is wonderful! I think your on the right track! Don't worry about that old time level, a lot of time there better then any new wizbang level! I really think you have hit a home run with the second lever! Very nice work!

Thank you, Mike!!  I have a lot of old tools that were my dad’s and father-in-law’s.  This one was my father-in-law’s.  I’m leaving Dad’s in the house for my son-in-law when they move into the old homestead.

Mark, great thinking, a trip to Lowes, a little bit of time for construction and it is done. Did I miss a meeting? Has a new level been invented? All mine look like yours. I haven't heard of this new "wizbang" device Mike G. talks of.

Steve

It's great seeing your progress, Mark. Looking forward to the rest of the build. 

Mark, 1X2s are indeed your friend. With L-girders for a foundation I use them for joists, just lots of them. Good progress there in Butler 

Lew

Hey Mark- just caught up here on your thread. Good to see some solid progress. Love your choice of test loco's too . The framing should be fine as long as your not planning on dancing up there . My second level is just about 5" and some taller cars don't fit (rookie mistake), so 5 1/2" should be fine.

I use those Rustoleum paints too, they are very nice. A suggestion for the spray paint- get a old box fan and mount a throw away AC filter to the intake side. Position it where you are spraying, and move along as you go. It won't grab everything but should control most of the scatter.

I had an idea for the cassette system Dave designed. Make a top that looks like an engine/ service building that can sit on each cassette. That way you can disguise it a bit when they are on the layout.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

Great idea Bob to disguise the cassette. 

Thanks Dave.

Mark, I have been enjoying your progress. I know how satisfying it was building my layout. Your second level is a great idea and please don't take this as overly critical. You could reduce your grade and increase your clearance by just supporting the plywood with posts, without the boards. A Railking Husky Stack is 5 3/8" from the base sitting on Gargraves track alone. I used 6" concrete wall forms to hold mine, and I hardly have a splinter or wire's clearance. Mine is 7' wide with supports around the edge and one in the middle, and absolutely no sag. If this is moot because you never plan on any rolling stock that high, then keep up the good work. If I ever get a scale sized stack, I wont be able to run it on the lower track, so I'm just throwing this into the mix. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!