New Train Room Finally Getting A Layout! (Last Update: 07/02/2022)

Back at it yesterday. Now it's time to take all the pieces laying on top and make them into a continuous sheet. Since we used 5x5 to maximize usage of the wood, they don't fall onto supports conveniently. Truthfully, with the Mianne benchwork, they wouldn't anyway, so it's necessary to knit all the pieces into one in the gaps. I hope to finish this today and maybe get some of the supports for the fascia installed. Those have to all be in place and secured before we can put the Homasote on.

There are actually two different joining methods in use, I'll shoot the other type today. Either works well, the fingers illustrated can be left unsecured on one side for each finger and allow you to take stuff apart. Since I have no intention of taking this apart with anything but a chainsaw, we saw no reason to make them removable.

John, now that is craftsmanship. Looking great.

I wish I had the cash to have Tom build mine! Very nice.

John:

Looking at the photos reminds me of an old woodworker saying - "One can not ever have too many clamps"........................

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The hole in the center is the "command" station.

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

If the command center doesn't work in the center, it looks like you might have enough room for a heart shaped hot tub.

That is a handy way to support and join the pieces.  Thank you for so many photographs, John and Tom!!

Keystone posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The hole in the center is the "command" station.

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

If the command center doesn't work in the center, it looks like you might have enough room for a heart shaped hot tub.

 

Totally unplanned, but we noticed it after the wood was cut, so I had to get a couple of shots of it.

Just a quick couple of snaps, this is how some of the other sections are joined.  Both methods work pretty much the same, we now have a continuous top, all the wood is joined (except for the lift bridge, we allowed that to move!).

Very nice John, I'm impressed!

I'm going to be really impressed when I can run trains on it!   Next is the mounts for the fascia, the Homasote, and then the fascia and finally TRACK!

Totally awesome train room.  Congratulations!

It's looking very nice and coming right along. Looks like furniture or custom cabinets! Running trains will be great too, but when finished,  you may not want to cover it up so you can still admire the quality and craftsmanship of the build.  

You are making me want to tear my layout down and start over! But, without help like Tom, my rework would look no better than it does now.   It would probably end up in the landfill or fireplace (out of pure frustration) if I tried all the curves, joints, additions etc. that you guys are creating there, a work of art! Squares and rectangles only for me....the one thing I have learned with age is my limits. 

RTR12, I am with you.  I know my limitations.  One think about my benchwork, roadbed, and scenery supports; they provide motivation to get the scenery going as fast as possible to cover up the mess!!!

John, does your talented helper have a face?

The anticipation is building.  The furniture look is coming, it's going to have a really nice finish fascia all along after the Homasote goes on, that will really impart the finished look.

Mark, I know my limitations, and if it's electronic or mechanical, I'm fine, but woodworking is not my long suit.  In addition, Tom has every tool imaginable to do the work, which really does make a difference as well.  A ton of experience and expertise doesn't hurt.

Obviously, Tom has made all the bad judgment calls that I would have made here, which is why we're making progress!

I thought Tom had one of my trim nailer/staplers at first?

Nope, it's here. Good stuff.

So the fingers were glued, nailed and screwed?  Your right someone is going to need a chain saw to take that apart.

Nah Joe, yours has the plain vanilla, standard pedestrian, everyday common fixed nipple,  Mine has the super duper, premium, multi angle, fits-all swivel nipple.  Circa 1981.    

If you need servicing on that gun I was told by General Flooring in West Chester PA that they picked up the repair side of Duo-Fast.  General Flooring has a good presence  along the upper/mid East Coast.

The curved edges:  Not just random cutting.  Most all edging has a purpose.  The larger of the front edge bump outs is for a station, the smaller front edge bump out is for a control tower at the bridge abutment. 

The cosmetic curves are to break up any parallel lines with the right a way.  Visually it helps to have a train close in on  or travel away from the platform edge. 

The big French curve embracing the two columns is just to blend in the otherwise boxie 2' X 7' centered addition to the original Mianne foot print.

The heart at the heart of "Command Central":  The curves just  soften the angular edging of the Mianne benchwork with a 2 to 3  or so inch overhang.  The right angle making the foot of the heart is the  panel location.

Due to the even number unit build out of a typical Mianne foot print,  using the 5 foot square multi ply panels can provide a safe ample degree of unsupported overhang on a 4 foot wide section of Mianne benchwork. 

IMO, one would defeat the clean edge enhancement of the 5 foot panels it you used 3 foot and 2 foor Mianne framework members.

Today we should be installing the bracing for the new curved benchwork edging plus the backups addressing possible torqueing of the crossmembers.

Joe, your stapler is way too pristine to be Tom's unit, his has put in a lot of miles!

Things are looking great John! Between you and Tom your going to have some wonderful furniture in your train room! 

Tom is responsible for anything that resembles furniture, I'm in charge of ransom cuts and hacks.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Joe, your stapler is way too pristine to be Tom's unit, his has put in a lot of miles!

Mine are from the later 80's. They have served me well. Many builds, too many to count. I oil regularly!

 About half of mine needed rebuilds a few years back as they were leaking. I can't keep track of just how much work they've done. I do remember a disgruntled boss trying to damage one of mine over jealousy. He fired it into a furring strip attaching to tiled masonry. He claimed he was shooting for the grout but he was at least an inch over directly on the tile. I grabbed it away from him before it got damaged further. His nailer was right at his feet and he chose to grab mine. So the driver needed replacing early.

 30+ years and it's still working!

"I'm in charge of ransom cuts and hacks. "

John, who or what are you hold ransom this week?

Chris

LVHR

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Keystone posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The hole in the center is the "command" station.

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

If the command center doesn't work in the center, it looks like you might have enough room for a heart shaped hot tub.

 

Totally unplanned, but we noticed it after the wood was cut, so I had to get a couple of shots of it.

I know you love railroading, John, but everything has limits....

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I like that, this is a really good one! A keeper!  Now, if I could just figure out when all my bad judgement had been used...

Reminds me of another one from my working life... An Optimist: One who lacks experience.   

This applied whenever sales had just gotten a large, new project and were all excited about it... which always preceded transfer to the operations department and discovery of the true scope of the project... reality would then set in that they were already in the hole before beginning.  

RTR12, I like that one too, but for “ optimist “, I’d substitute “idealist”, but I completely understand your reference. 😝

Wow, it looks fantastic so far!

I actually agree with all the philosophizing!  I think all of us are old enough to have learned from our mistakes!

Some more progress, we're putting the supports for the fascia on, and I've been crawling around tacking things down as well.

This is the support structure for the large bump-out "bubble" on the one side, it's made from 3/4" plywood.  This is secured (very solidly) to the underside of the table top.  Then 2x4 extensions to the edge of the table were added and fastened to the table and sides of these supports, they extend to the edge to support the first layout of the fascia.

Here's the start of the fascia supports on one end of the table, they're glued and stapled to the table top.  The longer ones will also get additional support behind the benchwork I-beams to prevent any possibility of twisting there.

Here's a run of the fascia supports in place and ready for the bottom fascia layout to be attached.

Another section of the table, the strip on top is the bottom layout of the fascia that will be glued and tacked to the supports and table top.  After the Homasote goes on the second finish fascia will cover this and also the edge of the Homasote.

Cruising on, can't wait!

Your bench work is beautiful. It’s a shame you’re going to ruin it by putting a layout with trains  on it.

One thing I've discovered about the Mianne benchwork, the method of attaching the plywood just by the legs is woefully inadequate for best noise suppression.  Even with the higher quality multi-ply, the top doesn't lay firmly on the I-beams.  I can just hear the vibration when things are running on the layout, that's not good.  I'm tacking the top to each of the beams using that power stapler, the difference in both sound when you tap on the table and the overall rigidity of the structure is greatly improved.  Turns out, I won't be using the brackets to attach the top at all, it's much more secure the way I'm going it.

romiller49 posted:

Your bench work is beautiful. It’s a shame you’re going to ruin it by putting a layout with trains  on it.

I like to view it as an "enhancement".

GRJ, you do really nice work. I’ve been wondering about track noise with the Mianne fasteners, so thanks for posting a comment about that.

Well, Tom is doing the nice work, I'm holding the tools.

The boards rattling on the I-beams is something I always thought would be an issue, and I figure to solve that one once and for all.  We did sacrifice a piece of the benchwork shooting staples into it to make sure we didn't have a splitting issue.  However, it seems the staples work with some pretty small pieces of wood without a splitting issue, I was just somewhat concerned and figured it was worth testing before doing the whole table.

An important consideration when driving staples is to not exceed the body into which you are anchoring the fasteners. 

The 1/4" crown staples used for the deck attachment appear to have the exact same 1/4" crown as the staples used in fabrication of the Mianne beam ends.

Although this is  a permanent layout, disassembly could be accomplished with a circular saw set at 1/2" for plywood or set 1" for plywood and Homosote running a chalk line parallel & adjacent to a cross member row.

Tom, I'm really hoping to never have to disassemble this one, that will be a project for my heirs!  

I think one part of the issue with the leg fasteners for this layout is a lot of four foot spans, that's a lot of area to span without securing the deck to the bench structure in between.

John, earlier in this thread were you considering using rolled sill-plate foam as a possible sound deadener between the bench work & top?  If so, did you try any and what was your opinion?

After having built very many layouts I have come to the conclusion that the only way to really quite an 0 gauge layout is to use a two rail format or run the three rail trains at a reduced speed.  

My layout combines both two and three rail trains over Homsote.  If I run the three rail trains at a reasonably slow speed they blend in with the two rail trains.  If I run the three rail at normal model train speeds the sound overpowers all the two rail trains.

Fasteners of the deck material (plywood) through sill insulation will just transfer the vibrations.

Side thought:

One thing I have found is that the sound muffling laminate floor underlayment pad can reduce foot traffic noise tremendously.  The biggest complaint in laminate flooring is the foot traffic noise level.  Underlayment padding has come a long way in addressing that problem.

It would be interesting to glue down the  underlayment pad then screw and glue down the Homosote  then remove the screws after the adhesive has set up.   In theory that may work well.

John,  What is the length of the staples you are using? They must be huge to go through 1/2" plywood in to the Mianne.

After having built very many layouts I have come to the conclusion that the only way to really quiet an 0 gauge layout is to use a two rail format or run the three rail trains at a reduced speed.  

My layout combines both two and three rail trains over Homsote.  If I run the three rail trains at a reasonably slow speed they blend in with the two rail trains.  If I run the three rail at normal model train speeds the sound overpowers all the two rail trains.

Fasteners of the deck material (plywood) through sill insulation will just transfer the vibrations.

Side thought:

One thing I have found is that the sound muffling laminate floor underlayment pad can reduce foot traffic noise tremendously.  The biggest complaint in laminate flooring is the foot traffic noise level.  Underlayment padding has come a long way in addressing that problem.

It would be interesting to glue down the  underlayment pad then screw and glue down the Homosote  then remove the screws after the adhesive has set up.   In theory that may work well.