Gunrunner John, I’m sure your very dissatisfied with the outcome of these newer Lionel components and that’s understandable. I’m not sure there’s any particular Lionel technician that would know how to help resolve this brain teaser. You might reach out to Alex M, or Pete Norton, or Bruk?, I’m sure you know them.
When I built my layout, beginning in 2003 ish we used the Lionel BPC’s, ASC’S, via TPC’s actually hard wired into the layout. 2 different TPC 400’s with 2-180 watt bricks. As you know I had the TPC ‘s go bad as you gave it a shot trying to repair them to no avail. I now use Lionels 360 watt Powermasters and they work fine. I have not used the DZ2500 switch machines, but used the DZ1000’s and with this older system, they snap. With the ASC’S, push accessory (SW) ID# strait or diverge. We have 44 Ross or Atlas O turnouts, some wired in pairs for convenience.
And for the blocks, we can choose either transformer 1, or transformer 2, via the BPC as it has 2 sides.
I know this doesn’t help you with your current issue, just letting you know I understand the frustration when things don’t work. I know you will figure out this equation as your great at electronics. Good luck and keep us informed. This is a very informative thread.
I'm making some progress, figured out the CSM2 issue, they must have power and common ground to the aux power terminals. Also, I've been told that for some reason the SER2 data output terminals are not compatible with the DZ-2500 switch machines, don't understand that, but I just won't use them. Now I'm trying to get all 24 switch machines to work reliably for more than ten minutes. I thought everything was working, now I have two that will program, but they don't respond to TMCC commands.
Success, got the TMCC serial data sorted out and all working. I pulled some wiring out and just used the DZ-2001L data driver with simplified wiring and all the switches work from the remote all the time. I never could get the CSM2 to properly drive the serial data, but at this point, I'm not going to chase that right now.
The new piece is the turntable is fully functional under TMCC control! I added three SC-2 controllers to switch each of the 16 whisker tracks and to control CW and CCW rotation of the turntable. After a short break to replace one of the SC-2's that had a couple of non-working relays, it's all working. I mounted the SC-2 boxes close to the TT wiring block to minimize the runs for all the track power leads.
I've also parked up my hidden yard tracks, that is much easier when you can manipulate the switches to provide access to them! 
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Do you use the red knob to rotate the table? Or can you select a track?
The Atlas table is a bit different than what you're thinking of. It has a Geneva Gear that stops the table at each whisker track for a short time and then moves on. So I just have two accessory switch addresses dedicated to CW and CCW rotation. I just punch up the direction I want the table to rotate in and wait until the tracks align. When the Geneva Gear stops the track at my chosen location, I turn off the rotation and drive off the table.
I don't understand why you are doing everything first class, and you bought a cheap turntable?
First class wouldn't fit. 
Also, I'd have to do some significant bench mods to fit anything that has a pit, and the space I have there doesn't allow anything bigger anyway.
That's a slick idea instead of just having a big ring gear with a drive gear on a motor. Pretty awesome! I'm going to leave the thread now before I accidentally buy a turn table on purpose.
I bought an atlas too. The word in product development is "satisfice" meaning the item is satisfactory and sufficient. What is not to like with a turntable at this price when it sits on top of your layout and is simple to operate? The only change I made is a better switch (about $2) that is easier to turn off when the TT reaches the track I want.
PS- do you really "need" a Lexus or is a Toyota the item that meets the requirements?
At about $275 I wouldn't exactly call it a "CHEAP" turntable. I wasn't sure why the newer ones cost so much more than the originals til I read Gunrunners piece about the Geneva Drive so I looked into it.
Seems like a pretty good option now for those of us who want an inexpensive (relatively) turntable that won't chew up real estate as badly as it's bigger cousins.
Jerry
John, your work is sooooo neat!
Awesome pics John. I am just amazed at how far you have come in a short period of time. I can appreciate all your hard work, and your ability to figure things out. I have been stumped on mine more than once, thinking hard to to resolve an issue and all of a sudden the light goes on. 🙂
Joe Gozzo
@baltimoretrainworks posted:At about $275 I wouldn't exactly call it a "CHEAP" turntable. I wasn't sure why the newer ones cost so much more than the originals til I read Gunrunners piece about the Geneva Drive so I looked into it.
Seems like a pretty good option now for those of us who want an inexpensive (relatively) turntable that won't chew up real estate as badly as it's bigger cousins.
Jerry
"Installed and running in no time".....said no one ever 
It is a nice TT for the price. I agree with John that any TT is better than none.
Happy to see the progress John and that you sorted out your controls issues with the switches. My brain hurt just reading your posts.
Bob
Thanks guys, I'm trying to get where everything runs reliabily so I can count on making it through all the switches, etc. without issues. Getting close. I have my DZ-2008A relays now, so I'll be installing those for the double-slip switches to fix dead spots for some engines, that's my next task.
@BillYo414 posted:That's a slick idea instead of just having a big ring gear with a drive gear on a motor. Pretty awesome! I'm going to leave the thread now before I accidentally buy a turn table on purpose.
Just do it, you'll love it!
@hokie71 posted:I bought an atlas too. The word in product development is "satisfice" meaning the item is satisfactory and sufficient. What is not to like with a turntable at this price when it sits on top of your layout and is simple to operate? The only change I made is a better switch (about $2) that is easier to turn off when the TT reaches the track I want.
PS- do you really "need" a Lexus or is a Toyota the item that meets the requirements?
My "switch" currently is the TMCC or Legacy remote. I do actually have a little ON-OFF-ON switch on the connection panel for testing if I'm working on something on the TT, but eventually I'll have a manual control panel with a 16 position switch for whisker power and a similar ON-OFF-ON toggle for table rotation.
@Tom Tee posted:John, your work is sooooo neat!
I think that's overstating the case a bit Tom. I do clean up a bit when I take a picture, but just a bit.
No more space at the Inn, time for an expansion! 
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@gunrunnerjohn posted:No more space at the Inn, time for an expansion!
Go vertical!!
@jhz563 posted:Go vertical!!
Did someone say helix?
I had dreams of a helix in my old house, but I don't see one happening here. I think I just need to get this layout a little farther along and then I'll consider more expansion.
Looking good John. Keep on chugging...
I was thinking something more like this
I think you should consider that for your layout, too much plastic for me.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think you should consider that for your layout, too much plastic for me.
It was just for the idea. Double or triple decker roundhouse. Lots of storage whenever you need it
What layout couldn't be improved by the addition of a Wienermobile? 
John
The Atlas TT looks like a reasonable priced way to add more fun & action to a layout. It's a shame it wasn't 2" longer. What's the largest steam engine that can rotate on it?
If the pilot trucks & tender trucks fit, is pilot overhang an issue?
@ironman1 posted:The Atlas TT looks like a reasonable priced way to add more fun & action to a layout. It's a shame it wasn't 2" longer. What's the largest steam engine that can rotate on it?
It can swing about a 26" locomotive realistically as long as the total wheelbase is less than 24" and the wheel flanges don't overhang the ends of the track and engage the whistker tracks. I fit the Legacy K4 on it reasonably comfortably, and the 10-wheeler fits fine. Obviously, the A5 or the B6 are no problem either.
With the space I had to drop it in, it was about as big as I'd have wanted it.
Close to $1500 with shipping for a manual 24" Millhouse River TT, and less than $300 for the 24" Atlas TT, the Atlas is not a bad compromise. Sure, the realism & precision of the Millhouse River TT is awesome hands down.
Although my scale articulated locomotives won't fit, most of my other scale steam engines, even my PT tender Hudson & scale Decapod with long haul tender fit, I may be satisfied with the Atlas TT after all. At 1/5th the price I'm sure I can put that $1200.00 saving to something else.
I don't own one yet, but I think an Atlas TT is in my future. Just wish it were a little bigger for my 2 N&W J's.
Check out the two rail 0 scale train show in Strasburg PA. There usually is one or two TTs on sale. Prices +/- $100. Most have longer bridges.
Tom, you missed the point that a larger turntable wouldn't fit. Also, the work to install one of these with the pit would have been way more than the simple install for the Atlas TT. Finally, the Atlas TT, while it's not super elegant, does have excellent indexing, the $100 TT would doubtless not have indexing or motor drive I suspect.
GRG, Question: What gauge wire did you run for DCS? I thought you said somewhere here or another post that you used 14 gauge but 18 gauge for common. Is that right? Does common gauge wire matter?
All my home-runs to the power panel are 14ga copper wire, the track drops (12-18 inches) from the rails are 18ga copper wire. My turntable is all wired with #18ga copper wire.
If my layout were larger, I'd have probably gone with 12ga for the home runs, but at 24 x 12, I don't see that I'm losing much with 12ga.
I think to Johns point, although missing some of the "elegance" of finer TT's, the ease of set up, it's excellent indexing, & the affordable price, make it an excellent compromise for more action & fun! You just need a reverse loop, if you have the space outside the TT & roundhouse, for turning those bigger engines.
My mainline has several ways to turn trains around, that was one of the initial design criteria when I was laying it out. I really wanted to TT because it's kinda' neat and I like the idea of being able to have a bunch of motive power at the ready that I can drive out without opening boxes or taking it off shelves.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Tom, you missed the point that a larger turntable wouldn't fit. Also, the work to install one of these with the pit would have been way more than the simple install for the Atlas TT. Finally, the Atlas TT, while it's not super elegant, does have excellent indexing, the $100 TT would doubtless not have indexing or motor drive I suspect.
Atlas has also revamped and updated the turntable - a better motor / belt drive plus more rollers for a smoother operation. I had to sell mine for the new layout (no room) but would buy one in a NY second if I ever do find the room. Only other alternative I would consider would be a transfer table.
Yep, if I ever become dissatisfied with the early version, I'll jump on the newer version. So far the motor works fine, and I rounded up the O-rings recommended as replacements for the square belt for the motor. The swing of the TT so far has been fine and it fairly smooth, time will tell if that will change with use.
One issue I had that I "modified" the original for was the outside rails set slightly lower than the decking, though the center rail actually projects above the decking. That's not a problem for a vast majority of locomotives, but the RMT and K-Line powered units and low-cost trucks with the embedded motor have a very flat "tread" surface that'd not angled like most wheels, and that tread actually lifts the wheel off the outside rails and they lose contact. That results in the powered unit losing power on the TT bridge. I hacked some of the bridge material away outside the rails to minimize this issue, but that's the one thing I'd like to see fixed if I actually did buy the newer one.
From the looks and description, it would drop right in and line up exactly where the original is setting. The biggest issue would be picking up all the tracks to get the TT under them, that would be a significant PITA.
John, Comment was meant for three other posters who were lamenting the Atlas 24" length, not you.
The Atlas TT is a go to item for your situation. With your track plan you do not need a TT for your big engines.
For me, turntables are not for appearance but more so a functional need on multiple dead end branch lines. Although very prototypical, I really do not like backing an steam engine.
The reason for two turntable leads was so I could drive out in either direction onto the mainline and not have to backup to get out, I agree with you. Speaking of big engines, I broke out my Bruk Challenger Vision Line Upgrade, that thing is a hoot, and smoke is coming from everywhere!
Would love to see a video of that!
I need to get more rolling stock out for good videos, I want my trains to be running revenue service.
