Benchwork - Wiring - adding elevations

Mine has been in place for 35 years just screwed in place. On the mainline there is cork roadbed. The only issue I’ve had is in a couple of spots is where I assume the butt joints are in the homesote. I see cracks running across my ballast and ground cover in spots.  I’m guessing from contraction and expansion right at the joint. Maybe should have used flexible black caulk just on the joint ends. Not even sure that would have helped.

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

I did not screw or glue it to the plywood and did not paint or seal it (mine is 'faced' i.e., water resistant on all sides).  It has not shifted, warped or otherwise moved.  The weight of the track, switches (which are only screwed  into the it and not the plywood) trains, buildings, accessories have kept it in place.   The climatically controlled environment indubitably assists in keeping things true as well.  I have made changes to the layout over the years and being able to pull it up and reshape it or place new sections in has worked well for me.

@Dave_C posted:

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

You can do pretty much the same with extruded foam board. When I repurposed my old test layout (nee around-the-tree sectional) to start an animation showcase, I topped it with a sheet of half-inch foam board, lightly glued down with squiggles of foam adhesive, covered it with paper-backed grass matting, then cut down through the foam board to create a recess into which the thick base of some of the animation could drop in. Here's a pic of the renovations in progress:

@NJCJOE posted:

You can screw the Homasote to the plywood with no sound issues. Your track should just be secured into the Homasote. Don't install track screws that would go in to the plywood. That would cause sound transmission.

Sounds like (no pun intended) that works, makes sense for sure.

@Dave_C posted:

Mine has been in place for 35 years just screwed in place. On the mainline there is cork roadbed. The only issue I’ve had is in a couple of spots is where I assume the butt joints are in the homesote. I see cracks running across my ballast and ground cover in spots.  I’m guessing from contraction and expansion right at the joint. Maybe should have used flexible black caulk just on the joint ends. Not even sure that would have helped.

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

I was wondering what would be good to "fill in" the joints between pieces. flexible caulk might be the answer, otherwise I thought joint compound "Yuk" ( hate sanding is smooth)may work. Also like building separate diaromas and cutting the homosote to accommodate the finished product.

@Aegis21 posted:

I was wondering what would be good to "fill in" the joints between pieces. flexible caulk might be the answer, otherwise I thought joint compound "Yuk" ( hate sanding is smooth)may work.

I used drywall joint compound and spread it as smoothly as possible with the widest knife I could use.  I did almost no sanding; since it will be covered by scenery (eventually, and theoretically), it doesn't need to be perfectly smooth - just avoid major bumps.  Homasote isn't perfectly smooth anyway.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I did not screw or glue it to the plywood and did not paint or seal it (mine is 'faced' i.e., water resistant on all sides).  It has not shifted, warped or otherwise moved.  The weight of the track, switches (which are only screwed  into the it and not the plywood) trains, buildings, accessories have kept it in place.   The climatically controlled environment indubitably assists in keeping things true as well.  I have made changes to the layout over the years and being able to pull it up and reshape it or place new sections in has worked well for me.

I have to admit since this layout is in our basement with de-humidification in summer and central humidifier for winter I will seriously consider leaving it float. Or maybe securing the corners so my clumsiness doesn't mess it all up! LOL

@Steve Tyler posted:

You can do pretty much the same with extruded foam board. When I repurposed my old test layout (nee around-the-tree sectional) to start an animation showcase, I topped it with a sheet of half-inch foam board, lightly glued down with squiggles of foam adhesive, covered it with paper-backed grass matting, then cut down through the foam board to create a recess into which the thick base of some of the animation could drop in. Here's a pic of the renovations in progress:

Pictures are worth a thousand words, especially when I am trying to understand some one's vision or idea.

Thanks

@Aegis21 posted:

I have to admit since this layout is in our basement with de-humidification in summer and central humidifier for winter I will seriously consider leaving it float. Or maybe securing the corners so my clumsiness doesn't mess it all up! LOL

I screwed mine down to maintain flatness.  I'd be concerned about homasote getting too wavy if it's not screwed down at least every foot or so.

I screwed mine down as well and didn’t use any glue or adhesive.  It seems fine that way.

I believe I have seen where folks have used every possible way of fastening it and the track down, painted or unpainted, or letting it float.  As long as it is in a dehumidified room, everyone has said what they did works.  

@Mallard4468 posted:

I screwed mine down to maintain flatness.  I'd be concerned about homasote getting too wavy if it's not screwed down at least every foot or so.

I have several pieces down on the plywood and see what you are concerned about. I will let them "rest" and hopefully they will flatten, if not, then the screw gun comes out.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I screwed mine down as well and didn’t use any glue or adhesive.  It seems fine that way.

I believe I have seen where folks have used every possible way of fastening it and the track down, painted or unpainted, or letting it float.  As long as it is in a dehumidified room, everyone has said what they did works.  

Hi Mark,

I shy away from gluing down anything since I have a great propensity to screw up! pun intended... lol  So I will go with the screw or float method, depending how the homosote reacts to it's present enviroment.

Thanks

John, I have used glue very sparingly on this layout.  I have been glad I did several times so far.

Hi John,

I am glad I went back to read a lot of what's going on! I now live in a state that the humidity is crazy and will be building my layout in a shop area that right now has no heat or AC! I hope to fix that before winter! LOL But I now know I will have to get maybe a small dehumidifier for the area!

I like the idea of dropping in something built on a separate bench. It will certainly make it easier to construct, particularly any finer detail.  My only concern has to do with uniform thickness of materials.  I ran into this when recently expanding my 3 yr old layout.  3/4" plywood I bought 3 yrs ago is thicker than the sheets sold today as 3/4".  In addition, 1" foam board has shrunk in thickness in just 1 year. The difference isn't much yet enough to cause a tiny step. Particularly annoying because I was adding a turn table and roundhouse.  I had to deal with the height difference between the existing track transitioning to the turntable over a very short distance.  Getting that right was a conundrum. 

@mike g. posted:

Hi John,

I am glad I went back to read a lot of what's going on! I now live in a state that the humidity is crazy and will be building my layout in a shop area that right now has no heat or AC! I hope to fix that before winter! LOL But I now know I will have to get maybe a small dehumidifier for the area!

Yes a dehumidifier would be essential, I thought our basement was dry until I saw the mildew under the steps. A dehumidifier that expels liquid to a floor drain works perfectly

@Het You posted:

I like the idea of dropping in something built on a separate bench. It will certainly make it easier to construct, particularly any finer detail.  My only concern has to do with uniform thickness of materials.  I ran into this when recently expanding my 3 yr old layout.  3/4" plywood I bought 3 yrs ago is thicker than the sheets sold today as 3/4".  In addition, 1" foam board has shrunk in thickness in just 1 year. The difference isn't much yet enough to cause a tiny step. Particularly annoying because I was adding a turn table and roundhouse.  I had to deal with the height difference between the existing track transitioning to the turntable over a very short distance.  Getting that right was a conundrum.

I unfortunately have come across this issue with two different purchases of homosote. A small difference in thickness makes life difficult for sure!!!

Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a bit, but some travel, mild bout of Covid, some strained muscles and a pulsating nerve all interfered. But I really feel your pain, Aegis21. I built my L girder benchwork using a combination of 40 year old true 1x 4’s and whole array of newer ones whose dimensions vary from 3 1/2 to 3 5/8 to 3.75 and true 4. Its making me crazy as I try to substitute whatever I have to restore uniformity (as my nerves spasm!)

on the good news side, I’m eagerly awaiting a 39” long stone viaduct done by Spencer 3D via 3D printing. Matt at Spenser seems seems to be a really good and responsive vendor. I’ll post pics in the next couple of weeks.
Mark, you are truly a role model and a terrific modeler. Thanks for always sharing and teaching.

well, it looks like the Lionel Base 3 is going to be here soon. Since my tiu etc are over 20 years old, I need to buy something, but first gen complex electronics are never a good idea. After reading the manual, it also so ****ed complicated. I hope we’ll hear from people once they start using this thing. Have any of the group bought/ used one yet?

Rubin

@RubinG posted:

Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a bit, but some travel, mild bout of Covid, some strained muscles and a pulsating nerve all interfered. But I really feel your pain, Aegis21. I built my L girder benchwork using a combination of 40 year old true 1x 4’s and whole array of newer ones whose dimensions vary from 3 1/2 to 3 5/8 to 3.75 and true 4. Its making me crazy as I try to substitute whatever I have to restore uniformity (as my nerves spasm!)

on the good news side, I’m eagerly awaiting a 39” long stone viaduct done by Spencer 3D via 3D printing. Matt at Spenser seems seems to be a really good and responsive vendor. I’ll post pics in the next couple of weeks.
Mark, you are truly a role model and a terrific modeler. Thanks for always sharing and teaching.

well, it looks like the Lionel Base 3 is going to be here soon. Since my tiu etc are over 20 years old, I need to buy something, but first gen complex electronics are never a good idea. After reading the manual, it also so ****ed complicated. I hope we’ll hear from people once they start using this thing. Have any of the group bought/ used one yet?

Rubin

You sound like it has been rough lately, I hope you are still doing better and are awaiting the stone viaduct. That sounds impressive for sure, can't wait to see it!

I agree on the first generation of anything tech wise is usually accompanied buy some growing pains for sure. I haven't looked at the new Lionel Base 3 at all. You said your TIU is old, is the Lionel able to run both Lionel and MTH? Sorry for my blatant display of ignorance... lol

I haven't been on much since I have been busy with home and the layout. I am actually getting to the home stretch with the backdrop painting adventure. It is definitely not professional, but it will make do and look ok  Also I have been finishing prints of the elevated trestle spur, painting them and weathering those pieces. I am not sure where I saw this technique, so I cannot give credit. My apologies to whom ever made the video that I totally copied. I used a rust colored primer, then wet areas I wanted it to look rusty. Sprinkled kosher salt on and lightly sprayed that with a gray/silverish hammer paint. Let dry and then gave another couple of light coats with drying in between. So far it has been successful and gives the look I was trying to achieve. Not sure if I should try to add more weathering, I'll take some pics and post.

Here are a couple of pics of the backdrop progress.

John, I think it looks better than okay.  It looks looks very professional. Reminds me of the ones I’ve seen Chris Lyon’s do on his channel.  Don’t forget you have a RR with scenic elements that are placed in front of it. Don’t judge it as standalone artwork.

John, I think the backdrop looks great!  Very nicely done!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I think the backdrop looks great!  Very nicely done!

Thanks Mark, You are a true craftsman, your railroad is my envy.

@Dave_C posted:

John, I think it looks better than okay.  It looks looks very professional. Reminds me of the ones I’ve seen Chris Lyon’s do on his channel.  Don’t forget you have a RR with scenic elements that are placed in front of it. Don’t judge it as standalone artwork.

Thanks Dave,

It is definitely a Chris Lyon's inspired (I copied his technique as best I could) technique for sure. My CEO had a lot of say in colors and where to place trees etc. She was a HUGE help and deserves lots of credit.

Yes, the "real scenery" will hide a lot of the backdrop. The river I made is almost all covered/hidden by the two track bridge. I do see you point for sure. btw I was thinking of putting some lights under the bridge to illuminate the river, anyone have thoughts on that? Is it too unrealistic? Will it look out of place?

Again Thanks for the encouragement

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Mark, You are a true craftsman, your railroad is my envy.

Thank you, John!    If you come visit someday, you will see just how crooked and scabbed together everything is!  Although, I must admit it works. 

@RSJB18 posted:

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

I agree with Bob, his ideas would be subtle but realistic.

John,

your backdrop is gorgeous! What a difference it makes.
As to my TMCC and DCS equipment, I have both as well as the cables which enable me to run both DCS and Lionel engines. My concern is that the electronics on these devices is now over 15 years old and they’ve not been used inn4-5 years. So I’m concerned. And then there’s the plywood headache…
I am feeling better. Thanks!
Now if work wouldn’t keep interfering with train time…

I’m attaching a picture of my new viaduct, which is 39” long. Kudos to Matt from Spencer 3D. He was a pleasure to work with. Just enlarge the photo and you’ll see the detail. Rubin

Hi John I know its been a while since I was here, with the move trying to get setteld, then the trip to see Farmer John's layout and pick up a TT and some cars. Then I get home and some how get covid! I bet it was that dang doctores office! LOL

Anyways your back drops look great! the Famous Bob Ross would be very proud of you!

Rubin that is a great looking viaduct! One reason I want to get a 3D printer!

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Dave,

It is definitely a Chris Lyon's inspired (I copied his technique as best I could) technique for sure. My CEO had a lot of say in colors and where to place trees etc. She was a HUGE help and deserves lots of credit.

Yes, the "real scenery" will hide a lot of the backdrop. The river I made is almost all covered/hidden by the two track bridge. I do see you point for sure. btwI was thinking of putting some lights under the bridge to illuminate the river, anyone have thoughts on that? Is it too unrealistic? Will it look out of place?

Again Thanks for the encouragement

Not over a river, but I used some pre-wired 12-18 volt (ac and dc compatible) led strips that I glued in place under a bridge to illuminate a hobo camp underneath. They already have the correct resistors on the strips. I ran the wires through the bridge piers to under the layout in order to hide them from view. Being 18acv compatible, you can connect them directly to track power, if needed.

You should be able to find some on the 'bay in a light range that is not too bright. If they turn out too bright after you get them, you can always paint the lights with Tamiya Clear Orange, which will tone them down substantially. 

@RSJB18 posted:

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

Thanks Bob,

Great suggestions! I had fished the Conn. river and Long Lsland sound for over thirty years and it did not occur to me to put navigation lights up! Huge thanks!  I also like the idea of the higher lights casting shadows and patterns below.

Again Thanks

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, John!    If you come visit someday, you will see just how crooked and scabbed together everything is!  Although, I must admit it works. 

I agree with Bob, his ideas would be subtle but realistic.

Thanks Mark for validating bob's ideas, they are great ideas. It would be great to stop by and see your master craftsmanship in person. Let me know if you have any free time next week or the week after.

Thanks

John

@RubinG posted:

John,

your backdrop is gorgeous! What a difference it makes.
As to my TMCC and DCS equipment, I have both as well as the cables which enable me to run both DCS and Lionel engines. My concern is that the electronics on these devices is now over 15 years old and they’ve not been used inn4-5 years. So I’m concerned. And then there’s the plywood headache…
I am feeling better. Thanks!
Now if work wouldn’t keep interfering with train time…

I’m attaching a picture of my new viaduct, which is 39” long. Kudos to Matt from Spencer 3D. He was a pleasure to work with. Just enlarge the photo and you’ll see the detail. Rubin

thanks for the compliment, my wife deserves it more than I do, so I will pass it along. I do understand on questioning the reliability of old electronics. Sounds like a good plan to stay ahead of trouble and set backs if you electronics start acting up. Great to hear you are felling better, and don't ya hate distractions like work.

The viaduct looks gorgeous! WOW! What a center focal point for any layout.

This is where the vice of jealousy rears its ugly head . LOL I am Jealous

@mike g. posted:

Hi John I know its been a while since I was here, with the move trying to get setteld, then the trip to see Farmer John's layout and pick up a TT and some cars. Then I get home and some how get covid! I bet it was that dang doctores office! LOL

Anyways your back drops look great! the Famous Bob Ross would be very proud of you!

Rubin that is a great looking viaduct! One reason I want to get a 3D printer!

Thanks Mike for the compliment, Hope and pray you beat covid!  Get better!

@Richie C. posted:

Not over a river, but I used some pre-wired 12-18 volt (ac and dc compatible) led strips that I glued in place under a bridge to illuminate a hobo camp underneath. They already have the correct resistors on the strips. I ran the wires through the bridge piers to under the layout in order to hide them from view. Being 18acv compatible, you can connect them directly to track power, if needed.

You should be able to find some on the 'bay in a light range that is not too bright. If they turn out too bright after you get them, you can always paint the lights with Tamiya Clear Orange, which will tone them down substantially.

Great suggestion and when I get to scenery I will certainly give that a shot, They sound like they worked well for you! I was also looking at having a Hobo area, an area under a bridge sounds like a perfect spot. Now I need another bridge! LOL

@Aegis21 posted:

Great suggestion and when I get to scenery I will certainly give that a shot, They sound like they worked well for you! I was also looking at having a Hobo area, an area under a bridge sounds like a perfect spot. Now I need another bridge! LOL

With lights off ....

@Richie C. posted:

With lights off ....

How did you steal the vision I had in my head?  You even stole the colors to paint the buildings. Geeze, I have to lock up better at night, so my ideas don't escape. Richie, all kidding aside you did a great job as it looks and feels like a Hobo party! Also where did you get those stanchions for the bridge? Did they come with the bridge?

Sorry about that - great minds think alike !

It's just the basic Lionel Truss bridge with flashing red beacon and included rock piers - 6-12772 - available through most vendors. I hid the beacon wires along the inside of the bridge and ran them down the center of one of the rock piers to the underside of the layout and did the same with the LED strips and the other rock pier. That involved drilling several access holes through the metal bridge base. I painted the rock piers a mix of colors and glued some fine turf to the outside in various places. I also used one of the rock piers to bring up and hide a power drop to the track on the bridge, itself. Although not prototypical, I glued the SF badge to the side of the bridge as a finishing touch.

Thanks !

@Richie C. posted:

Sorry about that - great minds think alike !

It's just the basic Lionel Truss bridge with flashing red beacon and included rock piers - 6-12772 - available through most vendors. I hid the beacon wires along the inside of the bridge and ran them down the center of one of the rock piers to the underside of the layout and did the same with the LED strips and the other rock pier. That involved drilling several access holes through the metal bridge base. I painted the rock piers a mix of colors and glued some fine turf to the outside in various places. I also used one of the rock piers to bring up and hide a power drop to the track on the bridge, itself. Although not prototypical, I glued the SF badge to the side of the bridge as a finishing touch.

Thanks !

You did a great job, I can only hope to do something as well as your Hobo area. Hiding wires and painting rock piers all make it so realistic. Again Great Job and thanks for the info on the bridge.

@Richie C. Great looking Hobo camp!

John I am sure you can come up with something that is just as impressive! Heck its a Hobo camp! give them a fire, a place to sleep and maybe a bottle! LOL

@mike g. posted:

@Richie C. Great looking Hobo camp!

John I am sure you can come up with something that is just as impressive! Heck its a Hobo camp! give them a fire, a place to sleep and maybe a bottle! LOL

I totally agree on the bottle! Hobo's always shared.