Benchwork - Wiring - adding elevations

   @Aegis21   John,  I am slowly going through the Fusion 360 tutorials in order to design a (laser cut) freight house for my layout. That tool is so incredibly powerful, I keep thinking how much it would have affected my engineering design efforts. Just getting a spreadsheet was awesome.  Somehow I think one needs to have a much broader engineering knowledge to really use the functionality of the tool. When using it for 3D printed parts, how do you know where to put the supports needed during printing?

I watched a lot of Bob Ross but found I like Jerry Yarnell a touch better.  Since he works in acrylics, I find it easier to translate into what I am trying to do.  The methods for blending colors and transitioning into different areas is enlightening. Much different than paint-by-numbers as a youngster.

Depending on how much room you have for the backdrop, It can be helpful to compose foam layers to add "depth" and texture. This was just a couple of layers of 1 inch foam board. Never had time to paint the walls. I think this was my favorite section of my old layout. I moved this "mountain" with me to Michigan where it resides on my new layout.   

The masonite backdrop below is a light blue grey - just waiting for clouds and perhaps an angry sky.

Hi guys, you both make scenery look easy! I know it takes a lot of work and you both show that it pays off!

@Mikki posted:

John, I was an art teacher (of teens) for 33 years and can navigate a loaded brush pretty well myself. Having said that, I probably won't be painting my own backdrop and opt for commercial ones instead especially since I am doing an urban/industrial setting. I am TOTOALLY IMPRESSED with your painting skills and the fact that you are a novice at that. Stop doubting yourself; you have skills, man! Seriously, great job. The comments from the group are also on point and should be taken into consideration.

Mikki

Mikki I will

Hi Mikki,

Thank you for the encouragement, and kind words. I will continue learning and adding as I go along this path. I did consider a commercial solution, however funding was not available for that option. Although paint isn't that cheap. I am using a good amount of craft paint for the cost consideration.

Again Thanks for your valued input.

john

@mike g. posted:

Hi John, I know what you mean, its been awhile since I used SCARM and I am having a heck of a time with it to the point I had to ask for help again with my future layout!

Hi Mike,

It is unfortunate that we learn and un-learn things at the same or for me a faster rate!

LOL

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, Take Mikki's word for it.  Your backdrop painting looks really good!!!

Thanks Mark for the encouragement. Your build is nothing short of perfection.

@ScoutingDad posted:

   @Aegis21   John,  I am slowly going through the Fusion 360 tutorials in order to design a (laser cut) freight house for my layout. That tool is so incredibly powerful, I keep thinking how much it would have affected my engineering design efforts. Just getting a spreadsheet was awesome.  Somehow I think one needs to have a much broader engineering knowledge to really use the functionality of the tool. When using it for 3D printed parts, how do you know where to put the supports needed during printing?

I watched a lot of Bob Ross but found I like Jerry Yarnell a touch better.  Since he works in acrylics, I find it easier to translate into what I am trying to do.  The methods for blending colors and transitioning into different areas is enlightening. Much different than paint-by-numbers as a youngster.

Depending on how much room you have for the backdrop, It can be helpful to compose foam layers to add "depth" and texture. This was just a couple of layers of 1 inch foam board. Never had time to paint the walls. I think this was my favorite section of my old layout. I moved this "mountain" with me to Michigan where it resides on my new layout.   

The masonite backdrop below is a light blue grey - just waiting for clouds and perhaps an angry sky.

Hi Jeff,

I have to second your comment on the power of fusion360 and what it would have been to have that years ago in design work.  I use Cura to generate the gcode files which puts the supports where needed. I have done some pieces without supports and they came out ok, but better with supports enabled at 55 or 60 degrees overhang.

I will have to look up Yarnell for sure.

I only have 3 inch clearance from wall to track with one or two sections at 4inches. Your idea of using foam and creating mountains is fantastic for sure! And then you made it come to life to boot! Wow, now that is not only innovative, but beautifully carried out to fruition.

I also love your portals and stone retaining walls.

Great Job!

John, I think yours looks better than my painting, though I was trying to match the style and colors of the original painter that did the backdrop I bought from a forum member.  My part is to the right, the original on the left behind the hotel.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I think yours looks better than my painting, though I was trying to match the style and colors of the original painter that did the backdrop I bought from a forum member.  My part is to the right, the original on the left behind the hotel.

Hi Mark,

Great job of matching both colors and technique! Gives me a good idea of how things will look when scenery is placed in front of the backdrops. btw: Yours looks great!

Here are some update photos, the scenes aren't final as I have foreground to add and some details too.

Thank you, John!  My artist daughter, Heidi, gave me a bunch of craft acrylic colors that were close to the original.  She has a massive selection of colors in several mediums, and knows how to mix colors so the first results don’t all turn brown as my mixing would be.  🤪  All I ask is for some direction from her then do it myself.

I like your work, John!  Once your layout scenery is in place, it will all blend nicely.

Morning John, I have to say I think you are doing a wonderful job with your painting skills! Way above anything i have done and might be able to do! LOL

@Mark Boyce posted:

I like your work, John!  Once your layout scenery is in place, it will all blend nicely.

Well kudos to your daughter for lending a hand! You two combined, did a great job !

@mike g. posted:

Morning John, I have to say I think you are doing a wonderful job with your painting skills! Way above anything i have done and might be able to do! LOL

Like Chris Lyons said, anyone can do this, even an engineer... lol btw I uploaded the trestle files on the 3d print file area. I hope I did it correctly, and someone can use them as is... if not hoping I get some time to make these scalable for clearances. Right now the clearance underneath is 5.5 inches I suppose someone can print a cement pillar to raise the support if needed. Not sure when they will show up on this site. This is for dual tracks spaced 4.5 ctc center to center

Thats great news John, I will give it a look so I know what I am looking for when I get a 3D printer!

@mike g. posted:

Thats great news John, I will give it a look so I know what I am looking for when I get a 3D printer!

Hi Mike

Dennis said it was approved but someone is on vacation and it has to wait until they return in order for them to post it

@Aegis21 posted:

Hi Mike

Dennis said it was approved but someone is on vacation and it has to wait until they return in order for them to post it

Thanks for the update, I know to keep my eyes open for it!

Until we get it up... nicely detailed ...and, it printed without issue.

Very, Very Nice Work, John !@!@!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

Until we get it up... nicely detailed ...and, it printed without issue.

Very, Very Nice Work, John !@!@!

Dennis looks great! Sure is nice that folks like John add to the 3D print files! Thank you both so much!

Hi All, Looking for HELP on closing off the section of layout wall between the train room and layout room with including two access panels, one 26" wide and the other 30" wide. Here is a picture of the area. I have only one fish tank on that wall at present time, and would like to keep it in that area if possible. I can build a plaster wall in there, however hiding the seams for the access panels seems to pose a challenge. I considered Masonite and  even a drop fabric with a background on it . (if there is such a thing?) I thought I saw somewhere, Masonite panels that were removable for access... I can't find that post, i'm not sure it was on this site LOL

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in Advance John

John, I am considering the same thing for a corner of my layout which needs access from time to time so needs to be movable.  Two options as I see it, are make a frame and attach the thin masonite (1/8 ") to it. Or make a frame and stretch photo background paper to the frame. The stuff is 54 inches wide and long.  Comes in all kinds of colors and patterns and not too expensive. I was going to use it horizontally. They also make polyester photo curtains.   You can also hang any of these panels from the ceiling with light duty chain so its easy to take down when necessary.

On my permanent portion I went with the thin masonite and painted it a light grey/blue. I would not necessarily worry about the seam - kind of depends on what you are looking for as to finish on the background.

Photo paper

I got rid of my fish tanks, my last was a 55 gallon fresh water tank, fully planted. I used to raise fish in high school. I found I would be interested in them for 4 or 5 years and then lose interest for another 5 years and then get back in. At least with trains nothing is living and needs constant attention.  I think I am done this time around - unless I hired a guy to install and maintain a salt water aquarium - in the next house - this one does not have the space.     

@Aegis21 posted:

Hi All, Looking for HELP on closing off the section of layout wall between the train room and layout room with including two access panels, one 26" wide and the other 30" wide. Here is a picture of the area. I have only one fish tank on that wall at present time, and would like to keep it in that area if possible. I can build a plaster wall in there, however hiding the seams for the access panels seems to pose a challenge. I considered Masonite and  even a drop fabric with a background on it . (if there is such a thing?) I thought I saw somewhere, Masonite panels that were removable for access... I can't find that post, i'm not sure it was on this site LOL

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in Advance John

John- Are you looking to create 1- a visual break between the layout and the rest of the room, or 2- a full height divider?

For option 1- a 24" high frame with the appropriate printed backdrop would work.
Option 2- almost anything would do. I'd stay away from any kind of permanent frame/ drywall construction.

Bob

@ScoutingDad posted:

John, I am considering the same thing for a corner of my layout which needs access from time to time so needs to be movable.  Two options as I see it, are make a frame and attach the thin masonite (1/8 ") to it. Or make a frame and stretch photo background paper to the frame. The stuff is 54 inches wide and long.  Comes in all kinds of colors and patterns and not too expensive. I was going to use it horizontally. They also make polyester photo curtains.   You can also hang any of these panels from the ceiling with light duty chain so its easy to take down when necessary.

On my permanent portion I went with the thin masonite and painted it a light grey/blue. I would not necessarily worry about the seam - kind of depends on what you are looking for as to finish on the background.

Photo paper

I got rid of my fish tanks, my last was a 55 gallon fresh water tank, fully planted. I used to raise fish in high school. I found I would be interested in them for 4 or 5 years and then lose interest for another 5 years and then get back in. At least with trains nothing is living and needs constant attention.  I think I am done this time around - unless I hired a guy to install and maintain a salt water aquarium - in the next house - this one does not have the space.     

Hi Jeff, First your layout is fantastic, GREAT Job! Love the camera mounted to the engine view. What did you use?

Thanks for your advice, about not worrying about a seam (my CEO said the same), and I am leaning towards a hybird of photo backdrop and wall. Photo backdrop for access and wall for some noise deadening (area is below bedrooms) I do like the photo paper idea also. Hmmm more options makes it more difficult to decide. LOL

As for fish, I have had fish tanks since I can remember(over 60 years) , my Dad raised guppies which I still have the blood line continuing. I have scaled down and do not breed per se, just enjoy the tranquillity of the fish tanks. Not too much to take care of, with live plants I do a 25% water change every two weeks which I siphon the gravel and leave the good bacteria to supply CO2 and nutrients. No filters or aerators needed, only heaters and led lights. And the enjoyment of that hobby.

@RSJB18 posted:

John- Are you looking to create 1- a visual break between the layout and the rest of the room, or 2- a full height divider?

For option 1- a 24" high frame with the appropriate printed backdrop would work.
Option 2- almost anything would do. I'd stay away from any kind of permanent frame/ drywall construction.

Bob

Hi Bob, First question is why would you stay away from a permanent frame/drywall?  I am leaning towards a full height divider, but the access panels are puzzling to do. I guess I am looking for the same backdrop to continue around the  layout and All other area's are a smooth wall without seams. As my wife says, I am probably worrying for nothing. In that area I will have elevated tracks and a coal mining scene. Most likely the elevated section will be a platform 7" high for trains to pass below, through tunnels. I hope I explained this correctly.

Again Thanks for the advice.

John

@Aegis21 posted:

Hi Bob, First question is why would you stay away from a permanent frame/drywall?  I am leaning towards a full height divider, but the access panels are puzzling to do. I guess I am looking for the same backdrop to continue around the  layout and All other area's are a smooth wall without seams. As my wife says, I am probably worrying for nothing. In that area I will have elevated tracks and a coal mining scene. Most likely the elevated section will be a platform 7" high for trains to pass below, through tunnels. I hope I explained this correctly.

Again Thanks for the advice.

John

I miss understood you John. But I'm still not sure what your concerns are relating to the access panels?????

If the wall is separating the two spaces, and you can walk behind it, what do you need the access panels for?

I'm confused........

@RSJB18 posted:

I miss understood you John. But I'm still not sure what your concerns are relating to the access panels?????

If the wall is separating the two spaces, and you can walk behind it, what do you need the access panels for?

I'm confused........

Well Bob, you exposed my super power, the ability to take the simplest things and confuse and complicate it beyond recognition!   lol The area is where my fish tanks/ water tanks/ water softener resides which I want to "hide" from the train side of the room. So if I had built a wall as originally planned, that would have hidden the water room from the train room. Now on the train side the layout is 111" long (the width of the wall and 48" deep. Which is beyond my reach and this is where access panels come into play. Here is a cleaner picture of how it looked yesterday. This morning I moved the fish tank on the left side of the pic back away from the layout around 10" to be able to work on what is decided. So that is what I am working with at the moment. The right side of this area will be two levels, one level at the current height and another about 6-7 inches higher with trains running underneath the top layer. So I will need access to the tunnel area from the back also... Hope this clears it up a bit, again I know my explainations are not the easiest to follow. Thanks John

@Aegis21 posted:

Well Bob, you exposed my super power, the ability to take the simplest things and confuse and complicate it beyond recognition!   lol The area is where my fish tanks/ water tanks/ water softener resides which I want to "hide" from the train side of the room. So if I had built a wall as originally planned, that would have hidden the water room from the train room. Now on the train side the layout is 111" long (the width of the wall and 48" deep. Which is beyond my reach and this is where access panels come into play. Here is a cleaner picture of how it looked yesterday. This morning I moved the fish tank on the left side of the pic back away from the layout around 10" to be able to work on what is decided. So that is what I am working with at the moment. The right side of this area will be two levels, one level at the current height and another about 6-7 inches higher with trains running underneath the top layer. So I will need access to the tunnel area from the back also... Hope this clears it up a bit, again I know my explainations are not the easiest to follow. Thanks John

Ok now I get it.

I'd build the wall and make the access panels as planned, but secure them from behind (water room side).

When you install the backdrop, just slice it on the seams of the panels. You might be able to hide them from the front when the scenery goes in.

Not perfect but we all make compromises with our layouts.

Bob

I hadn't commented because I didn't get it either.  I agree, I would build the wall as Bob suggested.  I don't see any problem slicing the backdrop.  I have two windows in the way of my backdrop which I don't want to cover permanently.  Someone suggested quite a while ago that I paint pull out panels to match my backdrop, and put them in place when photographing.  That's a good idea on the "someday; maybe" list.  I would have to have seams and some kind of handles that would show if someone looked carefully.  Quite frankly, I'll never get that project done in this house.  However, you are in the position to do yours soon.

Bob, Jeff and Mark,  Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. My wife made a command decision (since I couldn't lol) And ordered a Photo backdrop that is 10 feet x 6.5 feet and goes with the existing mountainous terrain. Since the layout is only 53" from the ceiling, at least 25" from the bottom will be cut off. This allows the greatest access and is the least expensive option (under 40$ ) . Here is a pic of the backdrop...  I'm hoping the cutoff will be before the lake, if not, we think it will still look good.

I’m still a little confused. The last picture helps. But here goes. As you enter my train room from the stairs. You take an immediate left and walk a ways around the layout down about a 2 ft. wide aisle to another wider aisle to run trains. When we moved in the wall was studded but unfinished. I added some shelving for trains on to it. After about 25 years looking at it I wanted a finished wall. The layout is a walkaround but the main aisle is on the other side of the layout.
I painted the wall a sky blue. Then painted mountains right to the floor for an off in the distance look. From where the layout is viewed most often or even photographed.  You never see the aisle. The layout sort of blends in to the painted wall. The layouts benchwork is about 42”s high.

The contractor who finished the wall insisted on putting an access panel in. The pipe to the septic runs across the wall. In it there was an access plug. If you looked close at the plug. It was cross threaded in and looks like something you didn’t want to deal with. Well he won out and the metal panel went in. You can see most of it in the middle of the picture. It has a cloud painted on it. To be honest. It’s really not noticeable.

John, that's a beautiful backdrop?  Why not cut off some of the sky at the top if the roughly 25% included part of the lake.  It would make the mountains look higher as well.

Dave, I agree, the panel is hardly noticeable.  If you are running trains or doing something else, you probably never notice it at all.  Well done.

John, wait and see before you start hacking away at the photo print. You could easily do something  like @dave c.  The backdrop does not have to touch the layout. Play with it for a while and then make a decision or rather have the CEO make the call  ; )  Jeff

You could also fold some of the image over a hangar bar and adjust the sky up or down as necessary.

@Dave_C posted:

I’m still a little confused. The last picture helps. But here goes. As you enter my train room from the stairs. You take an immediate left and walk a ways around the layout down about a 2 ft. wide aisle to another wider aisle to run trains. When we moved in the wall was studded but unfinished. I added some shelving for trains on to it. After about 25 years looking at it I wanted a finished wall. The layout is a walkaround but the main aisle is on the other side of the layout.
I painted the wall a sky blue. Then painted mountains right to the floor for an off in the distance look. From where the layout is viewed most often or even photographed.  You never see the aisle. The layout sort of blends in to the painted wall. The layouts benchwork is about 42”s high.

The contractor who finished the wall insisted on putting an access panel in. The pipe to the septic runs across the wall. In it there was an access plug. If you looked close at the plug. It was cross threaded in and looks like something you didn’t want to deal with. Well he won out and the metal panel went in. You can see most of it in the middle of the picture. It has a cloud painted on it. To be honest. It’s really not noticeable.

That came out fantastic and if you didn't mention the panel I would have not noticed it at all. Great job and a good example! Thanks!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, that's a beautiful backdrop?  Why not cut off some of the sky at the top if the roughly 25% included part of the lake.  It would make the mountains look higher as well.

Dave, I agree, the panel is hardly noticeable.  If you are running trains or doing something else, you probably never notice it at all.  Well done.

Yes, I will have the flexibility of positioning however the CEO thinks best. Thanks for the recommendation, it does help to different perspectives and opens up possibilites.

Thanks

@ScoutingDad posted:

John, wait and see before you start hacking away at the photo print. You could easily do something  like @dave c.  The backdrop does not have to touch the layout. Play with it for a while and then make a decision or rather have the CEO make the call  ; )  Jeff

You could also fold some of the image over a hangar bar and adjust the sky up or down as necessary.

Hi Jeff,

Yes, looking and moving things around is better than cutting, I think Mark was thinking the same, just used cutting instead of positioning. Positioning it higher will cut off the sky and give more mountain height etc.

The backdrop is larger than the area that it will fill. Backdrop is 120" wide (wall is 111" Wide) Ceiling to floor the backdrop is 78" the layout to ceiling is at most 53" So Positioning the backdrop in the area has a little wiggle room left to right and a lot up and down. Backdrop is not in USA stock so it will be a month for arrival. I'll paint around it as the issue of what to do, maybe put to rest. The CEO has the final word on this project.

Thanks for everyone's great comments and all the help everyone, so freely gives!

John, you could just let the backdrop hang down over the whole wall too.  🤷‍♂️

John, I know I am late. But I agree with Mark and why not just let it hang below the layout? The only reason I can see for cutting it is if you can use the lower half somewhere else on the layout!

@mike g. posted:

John, I know I am late. But I agree with Mark and why not just let it hang below the layout? The only reason I can see for cutting it is if you can use the lower half somewhere else on the layout!

I am always late, sometimes out to lunch to boot. Great point on using anything that is cut and in the meantime just let it hang below the layout. Thanks for everyone's help!  I am delinquent from the site for some family issues and trying my best to continue on the layout. Things are better now, so hopefully I will be able to post something other than pleading for help. Again thanks Mike and everyone else!

Well I am finally getting the homosote cut and placed on the layout, giving it a coat of tan paint. I hesitate to secure it to the plywood top, as I am afraid, one it will transmit sound which defeats the purpose, two it may have to come up as I do scenery. I am inclined to just let it lay on top without glue or screwing it down. Any thoughts??? Also, getting to the point of laying track down and I'm chicken to start cookie cutting the road bed. One, it will be difficult to change things around if I have made huge mistakes in layout for operations. Two, ignorance on doing this with plywood and homosote sandwich.

You can screw the Homasote to the plywood with no sound issues. Your track should just be secured into the Homasote. Don't install track screws that would go in to the plywood. That would cause sound transmission.