Postwar/MPC Americian Lionel or Modern China Lionel?

Go for the Poswar kamerade.

Well, I think it bothers a lot of people, but buying imports is just the price of admission if you want new equipment with the best features. Only you can decide if that price is too high.

And - I say this as a lover of old USA-made Lionel - they didn't all work out of the box either. By the time they have come down to us, most of the duds have either been fixed or thrown in the trash. Also, we tend to conveniently forget about the junk trains the Corp made to include in their lowest-end sets, when we are pining for the "good old days."

Lionel trains have been made in China for what, 15-20 years now?

Rusty

I'll admit it bothers me. Seeing "made in China" in large print on boxes makes me sick. Especially in your face big  on the back of the new ZW. I accept that most everything is made in China, but have a tougher time accepting it from Lionel.

nickaix posted:

And - I say this as a lover of old USA-made Lionel - they didn't all work out of the box either. By the time they have come down to us, most of the duds have either been fixed or thrown in the trash. Also, we tend to conveniently forget about the junk trains the Corp made to include in their lowest-end sets, when we are pining for the "good old days."

I agree, and remember they had an extensive repair network all over the country too. If they all ran great why was there such a vast system of repair shops and a large selection of parts for repairs?  I'm not knocking Lionel but we tend to remember the good more than the bad and as kids back then we often didn't see dad or granddad sitting up half the night trying to get something to run right, all we knew was that some how it now works and that's all we cared about.

Jerry

Made in China?
Does anyone have the Lionel"s made in Mexico?

I agree, and remember they had an extensive repair network all over the country too. If they all ran great why was there such a vast system of repair shops and a large selection of parts for repairs?

People have made the argument that Lionel trains couldn't have been that good because they had a network of service stations and a good supply of parts.
Sorry, I just don't buy the argument. Lionel's service station network was largely a marketing scheme. Many stores became service stations to draw people in. They offered specials on annual tune-ups. Even today, all sorts of companies have service stations. There is both a Black and Decker / Dewalt service center, and a Hoover service center within 15 minutes of my home. Does that mean these companies have a high failure rate?

They had a large selection of parts because:

1 - the trains were made in the USA.
2 - a lot of the trains used the same parts over and over.
3 - things (not just trains) were made to be repaired, not discarded.

Grampstrains posted:

We would all like USA made trains.  Why pick on Lionel?  To Lionel's credit, they were the last train company to move to China after the other companies were beating them too badly with prices.  Lionel always paid their employees  a good wage.  I blame the others for making them move.

That may be part of it. My opinion that another contributing factor that drove Lionel to China was MTH. It started about 20-25 yrs ago, they ramped up production, offered some first in the hobby w/nice detailed rolling stock, engines and accessories at low prices and started biting at Lionel's heels with their imports.  Along with other O-ga manufacturers popping up to get a piece of the pie.

baltimoretrainworks posted:

nickaix posted:

And - I say this as a lover of old USA-made Lionel - they didn't all work out of the box either. By the time they have come down to us, most of the duds have either been fixed or thrown in the trash. Also, we tend to conveniently forget about the junk trains the Corp made to include in their lowest-end sets, when we are pining for the "good old days."

I agree, and remember they had an extensive repair network all over the country too. If they all ran great why was there such a vast system of repair shops and a large selection of parts for repairs?  I'm not knocking Lionel but we tend to remember the good more than the bad and as kids back then we often didn't see dad or granddad sitting up half the night trying to get something to run right, all we knew was that some how it now works and that's all we cared about.

 

Jerry

Horse-feathers, what a bunch of bilge-water.  Its not too difficult to remember the good from the bad when much of what Lionel produced from 1917 to 1966 is still running today.  I grew up in the late 40s and 50s and most of the families living around us had Lionels and  dads were not staying up into the wee hours of the morning to get the stuff to work.  There is no question Lionel had lower end equipment like the Scout series and yes it was more prone to breakdowns as compared to the rest of their line but even the lower end of the rest of their line ran great.  I have two Lionel sets which were lower end, not scout sets, but still 2-4-2 Columbia type engines, and almost seventy years later they still run like new.   The old Lionel Corporation as it existed from 1900 to around 1959 should be a model for any new  toy corporate enterprise.  Their products were innovative, durable and incredibly reliable.  People who continue to denigrate, belittle and insult their remarkable contribution to  the toy train industry are way off the mark and one must feel they absolutely find it necessary to find something to complain about the solid American made products of the 20th century.  As so often has been stated on this forum do any of you really think that that the product being manufactured today is still going to be operating a century from now.

  As simple as something as old style tubular track presents an incredibly stark contrast between the old Lionel tubular track and the junk, and yes I mean junk, coming out out of China in today's market.  China's product is flimsy and has no strength to it but the old Lionel track is rugged and incredibly difficult to bend.  I could go on and on offering other examples but I would be simply belaboring the point.   

In regards to Lionel's extensive repair network back in the mid 20th century its simply a good business model to ensure there is always a safety net out there for the product which does need repair, even if it is 10 years after the engine was purchased.  That is why Lionel was so respected then as a toy train manufacturer and why they are still considered something of an icon today.  Reliability was the name of the name of the game and the old Lionel Corporation made it an art form.  Their contributions were real and not imagined.   Please my friends, give credit where credit is due.       

Please my friends, give credit where credit is due.       

Well, that is just what I was trying to do. I like older Lionel, a lot. And I agree that it was a superior product. And, certainly, there is lots of inferior product now being made overseas. (Believe me, you're preaching to the choir when it come to the track - and not just Fastrack, the tubular too.)

But one has to admit that some things being made in China right now are actually quite nice. And, in honesty, there were some things that Lionel made in NJ, MD, or MI that were not so great. I don't see how admitting either of those things diminishes Lionel's contribution to the hobby.

Oh Really?  I saw a guy, thirty years ago, pay a premium price for a mint in an unopened box, 2360 GG-1.  After he got it home, he opened the box and one of the power trucks was missing.  Good quality control?

Maybe that's one.
And with premium prices come fraud. Was it really a factory sealed piece?

Over the years I've opened a fair number of mint postwar items.  I do not recall running into defective product.  I did open one MPC item that was defective out of the box: an MPC Virginian rectifier electric.  The e-unit wasn't staked together properly, and was in pieces inside the shell.  Rather than bother to exchange it, I just put in another.

Folks may be forgetting: most sales were made in person at retail establishments. I very much doubt a customer would tolerate out of the box defective merchandise. They'd bring the item back and demand another or a refund. They would not be willing to wait for the item to be repaired. Same goes for an item that failed shortly after purchase. Lionel could not have maintained their image with shoddy merchandise.

I guess I will never understand how people can make excuses for their favorite toy train company's lack of quality, and accept merchandise that is defective out of the box.

I agree with C.W. but I would not blame Chinese production per se.  China is now an advanced economy with the ability to produce high quality goods.  Ask Apple.  Or compare an MPC jeep to a postwar jeep.  The MPC jeep has been cheapened and it was likely made in Michigan.  I would happily take modern over MPC on average.  

Where does this leave us?  It is a gross oversimplification to blame overseas production for quality problems.  The issue is that quality is a discipline that requires constant evaluation of processes, multiple and continuous checks, and a financial commitment.  Today the American consumer is addicted to high quantities of low price goods.  Look at the debates here about pricing - there is a segment of this hobby that doesn't like that they can no longer afford to order 16 locomotives from every catalog.  What can someone do with all those trains?  It is not confined to toy trains.  Check out any Costco on a Saturday.  What is everyone buying in such massive quantities?  Low prices have enabled this mindset.

The point is that there is a price point at which quality becomes difficult to achieve, and yet this is what the consumer wants -low prices.  Back to Lionel:  if toda Lionel committed to eliminating defects by hand testing and running each locomotive, but told you it would cost 30% more, would people pay it?  Are you willing to bet business capital they would pay it?  In the postwar era, it is not that I think people or firms were "better" than people today, but they were not exposed to the ability to have so much offered to them at such low prices, and once that genie is out of the proverbial lamp it is difficult to go back.  As C.W. stated the market 50 or 75 years ago was in person and expectations were different, and the products reflected this reality.  Today you have vaunted hobby shops telling customers to take up the issue with the manufacturer.  Try that one when doing business in person.  Long story short it is why operationally the new trains are very satisfying but in terms of quality they are lacking relative to the average postwar piece.  The answer to this is pretty easy - your instances of problems on new equipment will be reduced if you aren't constantly buying trains.

First off I'm going to say 99.9% of the items I buy are used so either they have been repaired or I expect to repair them or they just happen to be fine from the factory still. For buying made in China, No I don't really like that. In fact I have been going after post war trains lately for some reason ( this article just made me realize it) To most of the General Mill's period was low end. ( not all but most) 

The newer stuff ( we are now in the 80's) Came an all new line ( Richard Kughn ) Better than General Mills but not and you won't see the quality of the pre 1960's. Back then quality was a concern with companies. It is today to a very low point not like it use to be. Thats why you can still pull a prewar engine off the shelf/out of the attic and it will run ( may need servicing ( cleaning old grease out putting new lubricant in) but it will run most of the time.  

The stuff from china you have to look at a lot of things is there quality control like it use to be either ? No . The main reason I don't buy anything new anymore is the price. yes I see/hear all the bells and whistles of the vision line and other stuff but is it really worth paying over $1000 for a toy. And thats all these really are yes it's a hobby but it's still a toy. 

Bottom line your original question Does it bother me to buy stuff made in China ? Yes but what are you going to do. If you want Command you basically have to. Not sure but I almost bet a lot of the electronics where made in China or where ever before they moved to China but the trains themselves where built here so they could say Built in US they where but it had parts manufactured else where.  

Would I rather see them made in the States?  Yes.  Will it stop me from purchasing the items I like?  No.  Many of the folks that say they'll pay more for trains made in the United States are the same ones that will gripe about the cost and then go buy the next importers trains.  It's a joke when most folks say that because American's by nature are always looking for the lowest cost.

Also those that claim QC will go up because of the "American Worker" cares.  LOL!.  QC might get a little better as the manufacturer has a closer hands on ability but the labor force that would be needed to stay competitive will be no better if not worst than the over seas worker these days.

I agree with C.W. but I would not blame Chinese production per se.

I don't blame Chinese production either.

I have no interest in newly made product for a few reasons:

1. I won't purchase anything that I cannot repair myself, or that isn't going to have parts available.
   
   
2. I don't run my trains that much, and I will never have a tremendous layout - don't need the fancy controls. And scale trains don't look pleasing to me on small layouts. I'd be more likely to run my 027 streamline passenger cars over my "O" aluminum ones. And 2454 boxcars look better to me than 6464 boxcars. (And those "O" gauge cars aren't scale)
   
   
3. When I do run trains, I want to hear whatever sounds the mechanisms make. I rarely even blow the whistle or beep the horn. So I don't need the sounds.
   
   
4. Whatever smoke Pellet type smoke units make is more than enough for me. I don't like liquid smoke (not even postwar). I don't want to breathe in oil vapors, and I don't want oil vapors depositing all over my home. (It is also very rare for us to prepare any fried foods, like once a year).
   
   
5. The prices are just too high on new stuff. 
   
   

Most of the trains I run are those that I purchased as projects, and spent time fixing up. That includes rolling stock.

I would hope that the product quality is really the issue here.  I mean what about the car you drive?  Has anyone on the forum owned an automobile built by a foreign car maker.   All six of my Chrysler mini vans were built in Canada.  Nobody cared that their Japanese and German cars out performed the American cars for years.  Granted I would hope that the higher price of the BMW and Mercedes would buy me more reliability than the cheaper Escort or Escape.   And the same thing for a toy train engine.  I hope that the level of quality and reliability of the newer trains justifies the exorbitant prices.  Aside from physical damage, how often does your cell phone stop working or is defective out of the box?

P.S. All of your Iphones, Ipads are built in China as well as the majority of laptop computers.  Its a matter of desire, design, and quality control.

The Chinese made products are harder towels repair is the main problem. I have repeatedly replaced faulty electronics with a bridge rectifier because it's too hard to fix the issue in the circuits.

It's great to see I am not the only one bothered by Lionel China trains..........For me I have decided to collect and operate postwar American Lionel. I realize modern Lionel is making trains in China because they have no choice...But I can chose not to purchase Lionel China trains.

El Classico posted:

The Chinese made products are harder towels repair is the main problem. I have repeatedly replaced faulty electronics with a bridge rectifier because it's too hard to fix the issue in the circuits.

As far as I know, Lionel's electronics and trains are designed in the USA. 

Given the magnitude of mechanical and proprietary electronic features of today's Lionel  verses Postwar Lionel, does anyone seriously think that today's products would be any easier to repair if they were made over here?

Rusty

Interesting thread and points made by all.  

I find that being made in China has little to do with a product's quality.  No matter where something is made the company ordering the parts or items needs to hire the right folks to do the job.  In trains, as buyer we've said "I want low prices and will deal with defects."  In other 'high end' products such as phones or computers, the buyers and the companies that make them have said ' we want low prices, but everything working is more important.'  This is a lot easier to do, of course, with very large orders of the same thing than with smaller orders.  for example, if there is something wrong with the production line that causes a couple thousand iPhones to be scrapped, it is acceptable to the company, where as with trains the entire run may be only a few thousand products.  

When it comes to the actual quality of the engines or their reliability, I find our train engines to closely mirror the arguments made by car guys.  Guy 1 with a 65 mustang: " Hey, I can work on my car, it's easy to fix things"  Guy 2 with a new honda: " Sure, but I don't have to work on mine."   For me, My 2055 is a beast.  It is pretty easy to keep it running... But it has also broken down more than all my other engines combined.  It's had e-units fail at least 4 times that I know of, motor brushes replaced, the entire motor rebuilt, the axels replaced because the wheels wouldn't stay pressed on, and the smoke unit replaced several times.  The most I've had to do with any modern engines is replace a traction tire or burned out light bulb.  

If I had to choose one engine for a test of stamina, how long will it run before needing a repair, the post war 2055 would not be on my list.  I'd probably choose the early 2000's era hudson I purchased as 'command ready'.  To this point the only thing it's needed is one traction tire, and some grease under the pilot.  The 'modern' hudson still runs fine with no problems.  the 2055 which has 1/4 of the runtime since being rebuilt is currently sitting on a shelf in need of a new e-unit once again.  

JGL

You have one jinks 2055 I have two of them ( had 4 sold two to different friends) never a problem with them. I have two 675's never a problem I just got in a 2025 that had no e-unit in it that I'm about to install that probably had a bad E-unit so they just wired it for forward only. I'm like C.W. Burfle I prefer ones I need to repair as it gives me something to do. I just got real lucky on a 2056 that someone had said it wouldn't run, Bought it anyway off of the Bay it was locked in neutral has a 2046W with it that it would spin by hand but nothing else kept playing with is after about 5 minutes it just started up like it should don't know what I did other than kept turning the rotor but it spun easy but just  wouldn't do it now it does it fine. I have had more problems with modern engines my first TMCC engine ( yes bought used) needed a new R4LC board after about 2 weeks of use. it would be running fine then take off like a jack rabbit jump track and shorting out the track before I could move. I have replaced more R4LC boards than anything. 

What it boils down to is no mater what you get you have a good chance of something  going bad sooner or later. 

The 'modern' hudson still runs fine with no problems.  the 2055 which has 1/4 of the runtime since being rebuilt is currently sitting on a shelf in need of a new e-unit once again.  

Boy, I wonder what's up with your 2055. I cannot think of more than a couple of times where an e-unit that I have serviced needed to be rebuilt a second time. And it's got to be quite rare for sintered iron wheels to just loosen on their axles. Normally postwar smoke units don't burn out very often either.
Sounds like your 2055 is jinxed

Bought it anyway off of the Bay it was locked in neutral has a 2046W with it that it would spin by hand but nothing else kept playing with is after about 5 minutes it just started up like it should don't know what I did other than kept turning the rotor but it spun easy but just  wouldn't do it now it does it fine.

Turning the rotor (drum)  probably rubbed the oxidation off of the contact fingers and drum.

The most common problem with Lionel reversing units is dirt. Some folks think anything with moving parts need to be lubricated, and oil /grease the e-unit. Some other folks over lubricate places that should be lubricated, and the lubricant makes its way into the e-unit. Then the lubricant helps dirt to stick to the e-unit mechanism.

Rusty Traque posted:

El Classico posted:

The Chinese made products are harder towels repair is the main problem. I have repeatedly replaced faulty electronics with a bridge rectifier because it's too hard to fix the issue in the circuits.

As far as I know, Lionel's electronics and trains are designed in the USA. 

Given the magnitude of mechanical and proprietary electronic features of today's Lionel  verses Postwar Lionel, does anyone seriously think that today's products would be any easier to repair if they were made over here?

Rusty

Not necessarily, but parts would be much more common, if not at least existent.

Postwar trains are boring and outdated .. There a dieing breed . The funny thing is I love them still . I   Only run legacy trains now and I have to say there tuff . Made in China or not there good .

I am of the opinion now that I run what makes me happy and if I need to fix it then I will. 

No pointing fingers.

No blaming.

Just running trains........and now standard gauge too!

MattR posted:

I'll admit it bothers me. Seeing "made in China" in large print on boxes makes me sick. Especially in your face big  on the back of the new ZW. I accept that most everything is made in China, but have a tougher time accepting it from Lionel.

I know it's not a big plus (still not made in USA), but the "new" ZW (ZW-L) is actually made in Malaysia.  (at least the 2 I have say that on the box, unless they've moved production to China since the first run). 

I didn't easily notice the labeling on the back of the case, maybe it's on the bottom or maybe it's because it's 1 AM .  The ZW-C I have does say made in China on a big sticker on the back plate.

True Malaysia is still not USA, but it's a bit of a sign that Lionel realizes all is not well with 100% China production.  (I think there might have been a freight car or 2 as well (though I don't recall which ones) - aside from the boxcars made in USA with some foreign parts)

As to the general topic of higher prices if made in USA, the prices have been going up even without being made in USA.  I find myself not buying big ticket items much lately due to the inflating pricing going hand in hand with what I consider lower quality than 7-15 years ago.  whether I would pay more for items made in USA is unknown since my habits have tailed off anyway (though I have purchased a bunch of the made in USA boxcars, most of which have been decent quality, IMO).

-Dave

Dave45681 posted:

MattR posted:

I'll admit it bothers me. Seeing "made in China" in large print on boxes makes me sick. Especially in your face big  on the back of the new ZW. I accept that most everything is made in China, but have a tougher time accepting it from Lionel.

I know it's not a big plus (still not made in USA), but the "new" ZW (ZW-L) is actually made in Malaysia.  (at least the 2 I have say that on the box, unless they've moved production to China since the first run). 

I didn't easily notice the labeling on the back of the case, maybe it's on the bottom or maybe it's because it's 1 AM .  The ZW-C I have does say made in China on a big sticker on the back plate.

True Malaysia is still not USA, but it's a bit of a sign that Lionel realizes all is not well with 100% China production.  (I think there might have been a freight car or 2 as well (though I don't recall which ones) - aside from the boxcars made in USA with some foreign parts)

As to the general topic of higher prices if made in USA, the prices have been going up even without being made in USA.  I find myself not buying big ticket items much lately due to the inflating pricing going hand in hand with what I consider lower quality than 7-15 years ago.  whether I would pay more for items made in USA is unknown since my habits have tailed off anyway (though I have purchased a bunch of the made in USA boxcars, most of which have been decent quality, IMO).

-Dave

I couldn't tell you which of the "modern" ZW's are made in China or wherever else. I just see them in layout pictures, with that big "made in China" plate. I would have to remove it or paint it or something. I only buy postwar Lionel, so it really isn't my business or concern. Just my thoughts on answering the OP's question.  

In their defense, I do understand why Lionel  moved there. They had to too stay alive amidst all the competition. But, like the fellow above stated " I have the choice to choose not to buy".  If liked all the electronic sounds and features it might be a different story, but I don't.

We all have different reasons for being in this hobby. Mine is because of nostalgic memories of postwar Lionel, and the great memories of my family and being little, that I am having such a tough time  letting go of. I know it's not the same reasoning for everyone. They want the realism new imported trains offer. I want the un-realism of being a little kid when my family was alive and I wasn't inundated with life's stresses. No worries back then, mom was cooking, pot bellied stove going, bills were paid as far as I knew or cared, and dad will be home at 6:00.

El Classico posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

El Classico posted:

The Chinese made products are harder towels repair is the main problem. I have repeatedly replaced faulty electronics with a bridge rectifier because it's too hard to fix the issue in the circuits.

As far as I know, Lionel's electronics and trains are designed in the USA. 

Given the magnitude of mechanical and proprietary electronic features of today's Lionel  verses Postwar Lionel, does anyone seriously think that today's products would be any easier to repair if they were made over here?

Rusty

Not necessarily, but parts would be much more common, if not at least existent.

Would they really?

The state of manufacturing has changed since the old postwar days.  Most companies operate "just in time" nowadays.  Inventories are kept low and companies no longer produce extra parts for stock.  The amount of parts needed are determined early in the process, long before anything sees the assembly line.

As far as electronics goes, circuit boards are not built individually.  They are on a panel so multiple boards are built at one time.  There might be some small overages depending on how many individual circuit boards fit on a panel.

And now with BTO, there's even less chance of extra parts being made available, no matter where the product is made.

Rusty

Dave45681 posted:

MattR posted:

I'll admit it bothers me. Seeing "made in China" in large print on boxes makes me sick. Especially in your face big  on the back of the new ZW. I accept that most everything is made in China, but have a tougher time accepting it from Lionel.

I know it's not a big plus (still not made in USA), but the "new" ZW (ZW-L) is actually made in Malaysia.  (at least the 2 I have say that on the box, unless they've moved production to China since the first run). 

I didn't easily notice the labeling on the back of the case, maybe it's on the bottom or maybe it's because it's 1 AM .  The ZW-C I have does say made in China on a big sticker on the back plate.

True Malaysia is still not USA, but it's a bit of a sign that Lionel realizes all is not well with 100% China production.  (I think there might have been a freight car or 2 as well (though I don't recall which ones) - aside from the boxcars made in USA with some foreign parts)

As to the general topic of higher prices if made in USA, the prices have been going up even without being made in USA.  I find myself not buying big ticket items much lately due to the inflating pricing going hand in hand with what I consider lower quality than 7-15 years ago.  whether I would pay more for items made in USA is unknown since my habits have tailed off anyway (though I have purchased a bunch of the made in USA boxcars, most of which have been decent quality, IMO).

-Dave

Dave and others, not intending to hijack the thread - but made in China ain't what it used to be. Their quality and cost of living have gone up thus causing an increase in labor costs. Ergo some companies have considered bringing their manufacturing back to the US. Or they look for other counties with cheap labor.

For me, it's postwar or quality MPC. Yes, their is some quality MPC and it can be bought cheaply and just as fun to repair as PW.

Steve

C W Burfle posted:

I agree, and remember they had an extensive repair network all over the country too. If they all ran great why was there such a vast system of repair shops and a large selection of parts for repairs?

People have made the argument that Lionel trains couldn't have been that good because they had a network of service stations and a good supply of parts.
Sorry, I just don't buy the argument. Lionel's service station network was largely a marketing scheme. Many stores became service stations to draw people in. They offered specials on annual tune-ups. Even today, all sorts of companies have service stations. There is both a Black and Decker / Dewalt service center, and a Hoover service center within 15 minutes of my home. Does that mean these companies have a high failure rate?

They had a large selection of parts because:

1 - the trains were made in the USA.
2 - a lot of the trains used the same parts over and over.
3 - things (not just trains) were made to be repaired, not discarded.

How about that !   All but forgotten today.  

RideTheRails posted:

Dave45681 posted:

MattR posted:

I'll admit it bothers me. Seeing "made in China" in large print on boxes makes me sick. Especially in your face big  on the back of the new ZW. I accept that most everything is made in China, but have a tougher time accepting it from Lionel.

I know it's not a big plus (still not made in USA), but the "new" ZW (ZW-L) is actually made in Malaysia.  (at least the 2 I have say that on the box, unless they've moved production to China since the first run). 

I didn't easily notice the labeling on the back of the case, maybe it's on the bottom or maybe it's because it's 1 AM .  The ZW-C I have does say made in China on a big sticker on the back plate.

True Malaysia is still not USA, but it's a bit of a sign that Lionel realizes all is not well with 100% China production.  (I think there might have been a freight car or 2 as well (though I don't recall which ones) - aside from the boxcars made in USA with some foreign parts)

As to the general topic of higher prices if made in USA, the prices have been going up even without being made in USA.  I find myself not buying big ticket items much lately due to the inflating pricing going hand in hand with what I consider lower quality than 7-15 years ago.  whether I would pay more for items made in USA is unknown since my habits have tailed off anyway (though I have purchased a bunch of the made in USA boxcars, most of which have been decent quality, IMO).

-Dave

Dave and others, not intending to hijack the thread - but made in China ain't what it used to be. Their quality and cost of living have gone up thus causing an increase in labor costs. Ergo some companies have considered bringing their manufacturing back to the US. Or they look for other counties with cheap labor.

For me, it's postwar or quality MPC. Yes, their is some quality MPC and it can be bought cheaply and just as fun to repair as PW.

Steve

 

I seem to recall on the last York video presentation, Lionel mentioning having some cars produced in Yugoslavia(?) now.  And even the"made in USA" cars still have their trucks made in China.

Rusty

Well, I am an admitted throwback, but I grew up with PW Lionel, and that is what I like. I do have some Chinese made Lionel and MTH, which is fine, but I love the old stuff. I think "Crew Talk" or cab chatter or whatever is nothing but a lot of distracting noise, and so I turn it off, and rarely do I use smoke features. I do not buy locomotives or rolling stock these days, so it is a moot point, I guess. My last purchase of rolling stock was in 2010, and my last purchase of a locomotive was before then. Except for the annual Trainfest in West Allis, I haven't been to a train show or swap meet in at least three years, but I still enjoy my layout and the hobby in general, online for the most part.