Pricing of our new trains

Matt Makens posted:

Slow down fellas, you're starting to get all political. Trains are expensive, so are boats, sports cars, motorcycles and guns. If I want something I go out and earn the money to buy it. Plain and simple. My dad used to tell me "You can have anything you want. You just have to work hard to get it". After 39 years I'll be ****ed if the old fella wasn't right. I have a pretty good story and I can tell you that not to long ago, I was dirt poor and everything I have came by the grace of God and a lot of hard work. So I don't want to hear about how its the governments fault and I'm sure nobody else does either.

Exactly.  Prices are what they are and will not change.

 People have no problem buying a 1000.00 smart phone because to them it’s worth it.  

Americans love to complain.  Lionel is a business, not a charity.  

First it’s the complaints Lionel doesn’t make anything new.  Then they do and then it’s a complaint prices are too high. 

We can all see the prices.

 Do we need theses threads every time a catalog is released?  

I myself am more concerned with where this forum is heading as a whole rather than the price of trains and such.

There once was a day when this forum had daily new threads filled with building structures, laying track and operating trains but lately the threads are mostly griping about manufacturer quality and or pricing while the rest of the threads are "my train is dead help".

I doubt this forum will continue to flourish under these conditions for very long. 

I know membership continues to grow daily but membership numbers don't mean much when looking at member numbers vs the quality of threads posted lately.

I don't know why these threads continue to find a home here on this forum. I will say these type threads are valid discussion's and have merit but they need to be discussed at the club meeting or the likes but not here.

Maybe the new brass will step up and start shutting down and deleting these manufacturer gripe threads like they use to.

Name any hobby, and you'll find products that serve those who can or will spend thousands and products that serve those who won't or can't. RVs can run $1MM for high-end motor coaches down to $10k for pop-up trailers. High-end triathlete cycles run $10,000 or more and a basic bike at Dick's is $200. Same for ski equipment, televisions (70" plasma vs. 32" LCD), boats, vehicles, you name it.

I don't own a single scale engine and only one, a Lionmaster Hudson, that I paid over $500 for. I don't spend more than $20-$25 for rolling stock. Still, I don't feel envy toward the guys who spend thousands on the beautiful scale engines and $100s on scale rolling stock, nor do I judge them as frivolous for spending so much on them. It's their choice. Same for those like me who stay in the low-end.

It's a free market country. In the end, supply matches demand and prices find equilibrium. Enjoy the hobby, regardless of what you can afford or what you choose to afford. There's a lot to enjoy.

I have all the trains I need, Unless something comes out that I must have then I guess I could sell some of the ones I now have to pay for them, however I don't see that happening anytime soon. The new Lionel Catalog I will be buying a few cars and that is it. I will be selling some SP bloody nose diesel next week on the buy and sell board and a few other train related stuff for emergency stash bucks. Yes David, Lionel and MTH will have to do with out me from now on, unless they lower the prices cause this old retired guy is finished.

When I posted this thread my whole reason was to state what my thoughts were on the prices of the hi end products being produced. 

Everybody has to admit that prices are going way up, if you can afford them by all means buy what you like but my thoughts are not for the people who have the disposable income but for the people who like the scale trains but who are getting priced out of the market. 

Yes we all know they can buy the cheaper alternatives but many would like to stick with scale items and from the looks of it the secondary market seems the place to go. 

So you guys keep buying the high priced trains because in the future you may be selling them to me for a whole lot less. 

Dave

Has anyone noticed that die-cast steam is now comfortably priced in brass territory? 

Now, I buy what I like and don't think to much about the 'value' or whatever you want to call it.  And, it's my choice to purchase or not.  Doesn't bother me what others post or comment.  I have a lot of fun buying items, searching the secondary market, and dreaming of the layout I'm building in the future.  It's just a hobby to me and a way to escape the reality of the daily grind.

News flash people, prices go up!!! and rarely if ever go down.

This is an expensive hobby and will only get more so. 

in 1969 you could get a brand new 428 Cobra Jet Mustang for $3,500.  Today that same care in like new condition will run you $100,000.

In the 1977 you could get a house on Long Island for $65,000 today that same house would run you $600,000 to 800,000.

A new car in 1980 would cost some ware in the $14,000 range, today that car is 30,000 to 40,000.

Prices are not going down no matter how much we discuss it.

Buy what you can afford and let the rest go.  Enjoy what you have!!

We all would like the younger generation to get in, carry on these great trains we grew up with but how can todays kids or smaller families with multiple children afford it.

As nice as it is to see lionel issuing the older accessories again, like the great horse corral, and milk platform, with pricing at what it is, even with a car, its just too much to pay, IMO

I just dont see scale or those whom do these great realistic layouts, picking these items, its nice to see some prices come down, well needed, but most pricing, for new stuff is still high, especially the accessories stuff.

On this note, im a big fan of Menards stuff, if you gonna spend the money on buildings, you get a better looking product, and i havent had any issues with their rolling stock. Keep up the great work Menards!

Ill step off my soapbox now

  There is a lot of buying and selling of Lionel on the secondary marketplace, but Lionel doesn't get to capitalize on the great products they have produced over the last 115 years.

Lionel certainly does capitalize on the secondary market. One of the main reasons they are able to price their product at its current point is because of that secondary market. Without perceived resale value, Lionel's sales would plummet.

That written, Lionel has already taken steps to hurt the secondary market by making warrantees non-transferable.

Were Lionel to attempt to collect a fee on resale items, its likely that it could only be on product made after the mechanism was put in place. They'd be out of business very shortly thereafter.

Still, Lionel would have their defenders. Those folks are free to send Lionel donations any time.

$$$ is relative to satisfaction. 😁

I always remember 1 thing, this is my  HOBBY.

I do this for  leisure,  fun, diversion from the real world, camaraderie, play value etc.

HOBBIES can be expensive to participate in, its the nature of entertainment  Do you feel good about your O gauge train hobby, I know I do.

As prices  continue to increase , I have to be more selective and wait longer to get what I  want,  and in the end it's worth every penny.

I especially love this  forum, & I'm glad it's free for the taking.

What JUSHAVNFUN said.

I have a number of legacy locomotives; I come to this forum to see solutions to problems; I like the reviews positive and negative on products that give me a heads up on stuff I want to buy; vast repository of solutions and help; I like the idea that Lionel has a service center to resolve production issues - first rate;  I think the forum should keep on keeping on as is.  Maybe some of our efforts should be directed at the younger generations coming up and help them to un-stick their noses from the glowing screen for a few seconds to see that there is a world beyond that.

Prices always reflect supply and demand. I agree that train prices will be going up but only short term.  The secondary market is absolutely flooded with trains with more collections going up for sale every week. . Many of us have boxes and shelves full of model trains and they too will one day be a part of the total available market.  If you apply the declining demographic of those that buy the trains to the long term demand the prices will continue to go down.  If you attend large trains shows you can see that its already happening.  The phenomenon hasn't been felt in the new market yet, but that market can only be supported for only a short time.

Have prices really gone up?

Or has the value of the dollar gone way down?

Compare 1950's dollar to 2017

$48.00 in 1950 = $491.05 in 2017

$1,400 in 1950 = $14,322.24 in 2017

$14,000 in 1950 = $142,222,37 in 2017

So in other words you need to spend $491.05 today to get the same item you could buy in 1950 for $48.00.

I think prices have gone down  

The high-end steamers are pricey. I still have anxiety on how I am going to pay for the Lionel S-3 due out this year, and there's a good possibility I will have to cancel the order. I don't like doing that but reality of money and other priorities takes precedent.

The good news is that we don't need a lot of trains to enjoy the hobby. In fact as I mature I am finding the opposite is true, less engines and rolling stock is more enjoyable, less to maintain, and less boxes to store. I am starting to run my railroad like the real thing - the cost has to be justified. Trains sitting on shelves and in boxes has no enjoyment for me. 

I still have my Premier MR BiPolars sitting in the upstairs closet where they've been since I moved 8 years ago; along with the beautiful MR passenger cars from Lionel. The engines all need new batteries and just doing that will take a good amount of time. Once I get them back in operations that'll be awesome - that's true enjoyment.

What was the price of a pair of 022 switches in 1953? 

Berkshire President posted:

The TMCC stuff is already affordable and the first generation Legacy stuff is getting to that point, too....especially on models that have been reissued.

Price aside, I've found my personal sweet spot to be the first round of Legacy steamers (most w/o whistle steam) and TMCC with RailSounds Five.  I prefer the first gen Legacy b/c they seem to be more reliable, have engine specific crew talk, and just plain run.  No drama....and four chuffs.  (I've found that I get bored with newer Legacy locos without the specific crew talk, especially with the same voice recording on the generic talk.)

In other words, I've predominantly become a secondary market guy.

 

I am in the exact same boat as you. Everything I buy now is secondary market, mostly from train shows, and it is almost always TMCC if Legacy with specific crew talk. That was my favorite era during my limited time in this hobby. Engines nowadays all feel exactly the same due to never ending reissues and generic sounds.

Tom Tee posted:

What was the price of a pair of 022 switches in 1953? 

$11.25 each.  $22.50 a pair. 

The same year the bottom of the line #1500 starter set was $19.95 and the top of the line #2190W Santa Fe F3, 4 car Streamliner set was $89.50.

Rusty

Paul Kallus posted:

...

I still have my Premier MR BiPolars sitting in the upstairs closet where they've been since I moved 8 years ago; along with the beautiful MR passenger cars from Lionel. The engines all need new batteries and just doing that will take a good amount of time. Once I get them back in operations that'll be awesome - that's true enjoyment.

Paul, time is certainly moving along faster than any of us wants to believe.  Over on the "B&E Junction Closing" thread, I just realized they had been at their downtown York location almost 20 years... and I thought it was just 5 or so years ago that the store left its New Oxford, PA location!  

This past week I was setting up a logging train on my new layout, and I pulled out Weyerhaeuser and Elk River & Coal Co. skeleton log car 3-packs that had been stored away since 2003.  Talk about true enjoyment seeing these cars FINALLY coming out of their boxes brand new!!!  And they're so REALISTIC!!! Much more so than the recent logging disconnect cars released last year.   It was like shopping from my own storage closet, but I didn't need to spend a dime for them today.  I did that 15 years ago!!!

Look... each of us has our reasons for why some of the stuff we loved to buy has sat unused for so many years.  Like you said, some folks have moved and stuff has remained in storage for quite some time.  For others, they've been planning to build a dream train layout during their retirement years.  And for still others,  their work and family responsibilities have taken precedence in recent years.  

Whatever the case may be, a growing number of us is realizing it's time to enjoy the hobby more by Dusting of the boxes of trains we've already purchased. 

David