PS3 N&W J Jerky Movement PROBLEM SOLVED? Videos Added

Try turning the smoke off from the remote, not "min."

 

One should alwats leave fluid in the smoke unit, even if you don't use it.

I'd double check that wireless tether to make sure it is completely seated.

#1 button says smoke below it. Press it and the screen should display off. Press it again and should display on. When displayed on screen that the smoke it is off, it will stay off. I would double check the tether to as suggested by Gilly.

I'll second this recommendation. 

 

I only have one loco with the wireless drawbar but never found it to be a solid connection Hence, I've been using the zip tie trick for 3 years now and have NEVER had an issue. On my "to do" list is to replace with a rubber tube or washer to slide over the pin on the tender for a cleaner look. Until then, the zip tie works great. 

 

I've also had rather poor luck with PS3 engines. The quality just doesn't seem to be there and PS3, based on my experience and plenty of other local folks, is sometimes quirky. 

 

 

The potentiometer for the smoke is for conventional operation only, as others stated above, you have to turn it off with the remote in command mode. Same for the volume pot.

 

This is in Barry's book somewhere, but I can't find it right now?

I was looking at Smoke Volumn which only had Min Med Max.  Scrolling through other non smoke related settings, I found Labored Smoke.  That is where the Off Auto setting is.  I selected Off, and that took care of the smoke.

 

I did not know the potentiometers didn't do anything in DCS.  Nor have I used the 1 2 and so on buttons.  I guess that is why as a telecommunications engineer I prefer menu driven devices, not command line, and I really hate accronyms.  ;-) Maybe it's time I retire.  Ha, ha!

 

i have had the wireless tether opened and closed several times.  It seems tight as a drum.  However, I have had trouble, on my PS1 Hudson tether coming loose.  I bought it used andme erythema has a lot of wear, so I had to shim it to keep it tight.  I will certainly work on the tether on this one some more.  Maybe it is getting a little loose after 3 or 4 laps around the 048 oval.  It sure seems tight, but maybe not.

 

There always seems to be a weak link, often associated with a new way of doing something.

 

Thank you RJR, Gilly, Riverfan, rtr12, SJC 

Mark, did you read riverail's post?  That is only way to turn smoke off.

I read it, but didn't realize it is the only way.  Very interesting.  I say that since my engine stopped smoking when I did what I said.  Maybe I bumped it. Thank you very much RJR!!

 

on to the video.  Here is what I was trying to say in the original post.  It ran fine for 3 laps, then started this.  If I stop the engine and start again soon, it does it right away.

thank you.

 

Mark,

 I say that since my engine stopped smoking when I did what I said.

Typically, DCS engines will use the smoke on/off switch as the default on or off setting for smoke until the engine has been started up under DCS. Then, once the smoke on/off setting has been changed via the DCS Control menu and the engine has been shut down, the next next startup will use that saved on/off setting.

 

This is discussed on page 93 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition.

 

This may vary depending upon the particular engine's actual firmware.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Thank you Barry.  When I started investigating, I was more concerned about the herby jerky so I overlooked the smoke.  I don't know how I got by with 2 other MTH locos before this.

 

i just posted the new video above with the smoke off.

 

thank you

If the tach reader is misadjusted a PS-3 engine will jerk like that.  Gap may just be off.  Hate to say return it, but maybe a local LHS tech can make the adjustment for you.  The new PS-3 have a set screw that can be adjusted to close a wide gap, or open one too close. 

 

IF the engine features all work (lights,smoke, motion) the tether connection is ok.   G

Didn't realize PS3 has a tach gap adjustment screw.

G,

Well I'll be cow kicked!  Yes, that makes sense to me.  I was thinking this is something that I can't correct easily.

 

I agree, I hate to have to ship it to MTH.  The cost of shipping, chance of damage, and it took about 7 weeks to get my TIU warranty repair back.  I purchased it from one of our friendly neighborhood Forum sponsors.  He isn't the closest to me, but not exceedingly far; 1 3/4 to 2 hour drive.  I will contact him, and see where it goes.

 

Thank you very much!

Mark, it ain't rocket science.  Adjust the gap to about 1mm yourself and save the gasoline.

Mark,

 

If you like, you can call MTH tech support and have them walk you through the gap adjustment.

 

RJR and Barry,

That sounds good!  I will give them a call when I am home and hopefully we can clear this up.  Thank you both!

This evening I took the shell off.  Easy, four screws on the bottom, and it lifts off like a diesel.  I easily found the tach reader.  Using my feeler gauges, .81 mm didn't fit, but .76 mm did.  So if it should be about 1 mm as RJR said, mine is too close.  I ran it with the shell off, and it started jerking after 2 laps.  It looks like it needs an Allen wrench, but none of mine fit.  Regardless, what am I supposed to do when I do loosen the screw.  It seems the flywheel will just slide up and down the shaft, and not be farther from the sensor, but the sensor holder may be slanted a bit compared to the flywheel surface.  One other thing, the sensor circuit board just slides in the plastic holder, and the only think holding it in place is the wire harness tautness.

 

 

 

SJC,

Getting a better look at the tether less drawbar, I agree, I think it looks like it could cause trouble.  My connection was tight as could be, but I see it would be easy to flex too far and break something.  

you said your allen wrenches don't fit maybe it's metric, Harbor freight sell all kinds of allen wrenches they will have whatever size and type you need and there very reasonable.

Have  purchase many A small tool from them and they back there products. hope you have one near where you live!

Best of luck with your repair

Sent you a email!

 

Alan

Hopefully it is as simple as adjusting the gap. 

 

What bothers me is it runs fine for a couple minutes, then starts mis-behaving...and then immediately if started again soon.  This tells me it's a thermal problem - for example some component warming up and changing its electrical characteristics.  If the gap adjustment experiment does not work, a thermal problem would be a challenge to repair.  In my opinion of course.

 

BTW, does your video have sound?  You can sometimes confirm a tach sensor problem by listening to the chuffing sound of a steamer.  For example, if you are able to operate in conventional mode and turn off speed control (whistle-bell-bell button presses) you can run an engine slowly by adjusting the voltage.  Now the tach sensor will not be used for speed control but will still be used for generating the chuffing sounds 4 times per wheel revolution.  If the engine moves smoothly but the chuffing is irregular or changes from 4 per revolution, then you probably have a sensor problem.  If the engine jerks but the chuffing sound maintains its 4 per revolution, you might have another kind of circuit issue...not that you can repair it at home but narrowing the focus may be of interest to an inquiring mind...

Mark,

 

That allen bolt is to remove the flywheel.  Leave it alone.  Sometimes there is an adjustment screw on the plastic holder.  That is what you need to adjust.  Also make sure the actual reader on the PCB is over the stripes on the flywheel.

 

The gap should be .030"

 

Dave

 

Hey Mark! Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having with this engine.

This is what has made me hasten my adventure into DCS,although I still plan on making 2 of my lines on the new layout DCS.

Maybe by the time I get my TIU and first engine,I will be able to ask you how to get it all rolling!!!  

It is something new to learn,which is always good.In a year from now,you'll be laughing at how that engine gave you fits!!!

My personal opinion is maybe you got a bad one.I would return it to where you bought it a demand a replacement.I watched the video,and though I don't know anything about these engines,I do not believe that thing was put together right from the factory.

 

You should not have to spend good money to come home and start repairing a BRAND NEW ITEM. Tell the guy that one is defective,and you want a replacement. That's what I would do.

I could see having to tinker with it if it was used and you got smoked of great deal on it,but BRAND NEW out of the box,it should run for at least 30 days without ANY TYPE OF PROBLEMS!!!! It's just not acceptable in my book. 

 

I was told to write this to you by a mutual friend of ours!!!-Kenny

Last paragraph,-And you got SOME kind of great deal on it.-Auto Correct Mistake

Thank you one and all for all the interest in my problem, and all the replies.  I greatly appreciate them all.  I don't know what happened to the sound on the last video, but I took another and have posted it on my new YouTube channel.  Please take a look and listen, then I will and some comments below.

 

Alan,

I have both metric and English Allen wrenches, but am missing a lot of sizes.  I have needed different sizes before, so I will check out Harbor Freight in Butler to see if they have more sizes.   I may not use them on this project based on Dave's comment.

 

Dave,

What you say about the set screw makes sense to me as it seemed all loosening it would do was move the flywheel up and down the shaft.  Yes, the sensor on the circuit board is over the stripes on the flywheel.  Considering the gap should be .030", then mine is spot on.  My feeler gauge that was the largest that would clear is marked .76 mm/.030".  So it must be right.

 

Stan,

Your comment about it may be a thermal issue since it takes a while for it to happen is something that hit me right off.  I have worked in various areas of electronics for 39 years, and I agree with you it may be a thermal problem.  If so, that will probably mean a bad component on the board, which is a warranty repair issue.

 

Todd,

The wireless drawbar is something that has been in the back of my mind too.  This is my first experience with one.  Yes the connector is seated properly as we noted a few days ago, but my background in electronics has shown flexible connections can be a trouble spot.  In this case, I would think if the engine started acting up, I shut it off and don't move it before starting it up the next day, it would go into it's hissy fit right away.  But, who knows.  Electronics has taught me to expect the unexpected.

 

Kenny,

Yes, I understand completely what you are saying about the fear of jumping in with a DCS system.  As you know, I ran HO and N scale trains for over 40 years and never used command control.  I wondered how long it would take to get used to DCS, but was blown away with the sound and some of the control features.  However, after almost a year of fighting an intermittent TIU and now this, I haven't experienced the fun of DCS yet.  That said, we have run into this with new or refurbished products at my work places all along, so I am willing to give it a chance.  However, I don't like fiddling with electronics and software.  I do it for a living, and don't want to have to fight with it at home.  That is why it took almost until the warranty period was up before I had run the TIU enough that it totally failed.  Of course, the symptoms sounded like mistakes people were making and reporting on the Forum, so I thought it was me, got frustrated, and put the postwar 2026 on the track just to see an engine run.    Now that my TIU has been repaired, my Hudson and Atlantic run great!

 

You are right, these experiences make for the 'war stories' people at work tell years later.  I'm glad our mutual friend encouraged you to write, and don't give up on buying a DCS.  

 

All,

It seems to me after this discussion, I probably have a problem that needs factory attention.  Monday I will give the seller a call to see if he will take it back and look at it since he is an approved MTH repair facility or if I should contact MTH service directly.  I see on the MTH Web site that they list service hours of operation ending at 5 pm Eastern.  If that is so, I will have to wait until I have a day I can be at home, since I don't get off work until 5 and live a half hour away.  I called during the day for my TIU, because I was off on short term disability with one of my hand operations.

 

Again, Thank you everyone who has contributed!!  

0.76mm is on the tight side.  1.0mm would be better.

I hear the sound now.

 

IMO you have some kind of thermal problem.  When it starts acting up there seems to be a rhythm to it.  And when it "works" between hiccups the chuffing sounds spot-on at 4 chuffs per revolution.  If it were mechanical, alignment, or loose connection, I'd expect the behavior to be more random...work for some interval, fail for a different interval, partially work for yet a different interval, fail for yet a different interval, etc.

 

If nothing else you now have a video with sound that makes your case for warranty repair to give to MTH.  Sure would be nice if you get feedback on what was wrong when you get it back.  Enquiring minds want to know!

Doesn't seem thermal to me. It comes back on too fast. Have you tried running the engine in the opposite direction?

hi Mark mth Maryland hours of operation are 1200 to 500 pm

Monday to Friday 1-401-381-2580 . good luck getting your engine repaired.

It should not take near as long to get your new engine fixed, the TIU is much more complicated device then is the train!

BEST of Luck

 

Alan

Riverrailfan,

If you mean run in reverse, yes and it did it in reverse.  If you mean pick it up and turn it facing the othe other direction, no I did not.  I will try that tomorrow.

 

I put the cover back on, and ran it.  It started doing it in about 1 1/2 minutes instead of 2  1/2 minutes.  Then I tried it again and it started in about a half minute.

 

Stan,

Seems like there is some thermal issue, but Riverrailfan has a point.  I don't know

 

Alan,

Five o'clock is what I thought.  I'll try to give them a call, if I have to take an afternoon off to do It.

 

I took another video with the cover back on, in case I can send that to MTH to see what is happening.  Maybe I can take care of it with them without being home.

 

thank you everyone!!

I may be using the term "thermal issue" incorrectly so I'll stand corrected.

 

Thermal may suggest "cycling" which takes minutes such as a device that overheats and shuts off, you wait a minutes, and then you can run it again.  My paper shredder does this when it overheats.  But for your engine, by thermal I meant some device, component, whatever warms up and something about it changes causing the circuit to behave in an odd way that cycles over seconds (rather than minutes).  The component will continue to behave incorrectly as long as it's warmed up.  But if you let the device cool down over minutes the problem goes away until it warms up again.

 

By all means let MTH or your shop get their mitts on it, but, for example by thermal I meant that if you sprayed so-called 'component cooler' onto different areas of the circuit board you might make the problem vanish when you cool down the guilty component.

Yes whatever it is, I can't fix it, especially considering it is brand new.  I could have sprayed it with cooler, but since it is under warranty, I don't have to identify what is wrong anyway.  Thank you.

Interesting issue.  I do recommend sending back to MTH.

 

I would also comment that video is a great source to get definitions insync.

 

When I first read your post I assumed it ran fine for 2 minutes or so and then developed a jerk that was consistent.  In reality it runs fine, stops running correctly and than starts running fine which means it is not the Tach reader.

 

To me this looks like the motor loses power, and stops, followed by the processor thinking it needs to crank up the voltage to the motor to regain ordered speed and then takes off when motor power comes back.

 

Not sure if this has the FET or Relay boiler board, but I imagine MTH will change the boiler board out.  Seems like a motor FET acting up.

 

I assume the 8 pin and 32 pin connector are fully seated in the boiler board?  G

G,

Yes, I don't know why the sound didn't come through on the first video.  However now since I have YouTube, I will probably post there and embed on the Forum posts.  Also, I didn't know quite how to describe the problem.  Your description is very good.  I will use it when I call MTH, if you don't mind.

 

I checked the chip seating and connections I could easily reach without altering a wire harness or something that could conceivably void the warranty.  

 

I will try turning it around as Stan suggested just to see if something different happens today after I take a nap.  I was up early for church this morning.

 

I will also report back what they say, and prod them to tell me what the problem is once they fix it, then report back to this topic, so make sure you are following everyone who is interested. 

I called MTH Service today, and they are having me ship The 611 to them for warranty repair.  The 1:1 scale 611 returns to Roanoke from major service, and my 1:48 scale 611 goes in for service.  The big difference is that mine isn't 65 years old.  Since I have had it less than 30 days, they are giving me priority.  Expected to be returned in 3 to 4 weeks.  Under the circumstances that is the best I can ask for.  

 

I will post updates here as I have them.

 

Again, thank you everyone for the interest and suggestions!

Hey Mark!!You should have just bought a POSTWAR #746,and had a fan driven smoke unit and a soundboard put in it!!!!(Just Joking!,but that gives me an idea!!)At least MTH is standing behind Thier product,and your 611 will probably run better than any of them after that Tech goes through it!!! Patience is difficult in a deal like this,did you try to call the dealer and see if they would just exchange it?,or do things not work this way in the DCS train market??You can mail me offline if you want,I am on my way to NYC!!Please pray for me!!It is insane driving a truck into there!!!

Kenny,

You may have a good idea there about the 74611  I've been told many times before that I am a very patient man. lol

 

No, I didn't call the dealer, because I knew he didn't have any more.  I actually contacted him to pre-order the 30-1674-1 from the latest catalog.  He called me back and said he had two 30-1633-1 from the late 2014 catalog left.  Same engine, just different model numbers because of a different run.  Same price, so I said I would take it.  He sold the second one too.  This is the first new engine I have ever purchased.  In fact the PE I bought from you was by far the newest O gauge engine I have ever owned.  The next newest is almost 10 years.

 

I have never been to NYC, but I wouldn't want to drive there.  Driving a car in suburban Pittsburgh is about all I can take, and I know that's the sticks compared to New York.  A truck in NYC...Yes I will pray for you and your delivery.

Good luck with your repair. I am sure they will take care of your problems. They make good products and are a good value. I have had very good luck with MTH products. It's good they are expediting your repair. It will be back before you know it.

You're doing the right thing sending it to MTH. If you don't see anything obvious, no sense in tinkering around inside when it is under warranty.

Thanks!  Yes, at first I was reluctant to even take the shell off or adjust the reader for fear of leaving scratch marks on the screws and voiding the warranty.

Mark, you are doing the right thing.  At least when you get it back, it should be right, and run properly for you.  Better to have a bird in the hand, rather than one with a broken wing.