Scale Legacy F3 Marker Lights don't work correctly in lashup...help!

GregR posted:

I have a set of Lionel F3 scale legacy diesels. When the powered A unit is operated alone, the directional marker lights function correctly, with red lights facing the rear. When I add the non-powered A unit in a lashup, I have problems.

If it is "non-powered", how are you making a "lash-up"? Isn't that just like coupling a boxcar to the rear of the powers A Unit? I'm confused.

The headlights are correctly activated for the direction of movement, but the marker lights do not function at all in either direction! How can I set up an F3 AA lashup with correctly functioning marker lights? I have tried avoiding a lashup by assigning both units the same TMCC ID, but that doesn't work correctly either. Any advice?

And in a lash-up, would the tail lights even be lit since it's another power unit behind it?  It'd be more correct for the marker lights on the front of the rear unit to be lit (In red.)?

So in other words, besides the issue HW points out, I think this is normal behavior for the lash-up using Legacy.

So my F3's worked best when I programmed them to the same Legacy address. THey work as one unit the powered A and the dummy A both get the same address they run as one loco and the marker lights work correctly. And when you add a powered B unit you can set that to the same address and they will all work as one unit.

GregR posted:

The headlights are correctly activated for the direction of movement, but the marker lights do not function at all in either direction! How can I set up an F3 AA lashup with correctly functioning marker lights?

If the F3's are pulling a train, then all marker lights would correctly be OFF.  If the F3's are pushing a train, then the rear markers on the trailing unit (at the very end of the train) would display red.

Bob posted:

GregR posted:

The headlights are correctly activated for the direction of movement, but the marker lights do not function at all in either direction! How can I set up an F3 AA lashup with correctly functioning marker lights?

If the F3's are pulling a train, then all marker lights would correctly be OFF.  If the F3's are pushing a train, then the rear markers on the trailing unit (at the very end of the train) would display red.

Remember; "Class lights" to the front, and "Marker lights" face the rear.

The exact model number of the F3 set would be useful.  I have the Lionel 6-28303 Legacy SD-80, and the lights in an MU don't work properly, in this one it's due to the fact they wired them without independent control.  Yours may be similar.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The exact model number of the F3 set would be useful.  I have the Lionel 6-28303 Legacy SD-80, and the lights in an MU don't work properly, in this one it's due to the fact they wired them without independent control.  Yours may be similar.

It's the Lionel 34645 Legacy CN F3 AA set. But this applies to all other scale F3 sets. In a lashup programmed with a TR #, the class lights (or marker lights depending on direction), do not function. When an individual A unit is addressed using it's individual TMCC ENG ID, the lights work. (however, even when they do work, they are only "red" or "off", unlike other legacy loco's like the S2 switchers which have "green" and "red".) But, my main point is that I just can't get an arrangement where they correctly function.

If you assign both the powered, and non-powered units the same TMCC ID, then they will both think they are going forward, both have headlights activated, and both have the marker lights turned off. Lashed up in a train, you can set the "rear" non-powered unit direction to backwards. Then the headlights work according to direction, but again, the marker lights are dead.

And, I need to address Hot Water's confusion over adding a non-powered unit to a lashup. Remember, non-powered legacy units also have motherboards, R4LC chips, etc. which drive directional lighting and electrocouplers. Think specifically of Lionels TMCC "triple lashup" sets like the FEC GP-7's from a few years back they had a 607(powered), 608 (non-powered), and a 609 (powered). If you didn't set up a lashup with a TR # assignment consisting of "front", "middle" and "rear" units, it would be a disaster and they would all uncouple, instead of just the F or R couplers of the lashup. This same concept applies to the F3 AA pictured above. Imaging if you don't have the non-powered unit in lashup... both end couplers would activate with a  push of the F button...

My guess would be that these are similar to the SD80 that I have, they're from the same timeframe, and they both have the older R4LC based control system.  When Lionel went to the RCMC, the lights apparently got more intelligent.