Super-Chuffer Chuff Generation Enhancement

I'm a fan! Love his idea!

Super chuffers can be tailored to any chuff rate now.

That was the idea.  I'm tired of sticking my fingers to the wheels trying to get the magnets in the right spot!

Super!

John,I'm glad your still working on this and keeping us posted. Kudos

Doug

Pure genius Dude.   I too hate those magnets. 

Milwrd

I like it!  

There is one question that I have, though, which is, does the chuff move in and out of sync with the position of the drivers over time?  My thinking is that because of various gear ratios the motor may not move an exact number of tach stripes for every turn of the drivers, and will "lose" a stripe every several rotations of the drivers. This then causing the sensor to switch on slightly out of sync with the position of the drive wheels with an ever increasing mis-alignment.  This would then lead to needing a tach strip matched for the gearing of each engine to keep the chuff perfectly matched to driver position.  

Could be this is a non-problem, and for me, I don't tend to count rivets, so the chuff sounding when the wheels are not in exactly the right position doesn't matter, but it might be important for others.  

JGL

So, would this be part of the SC kit, or an additional add on that could be bought at the time you buy the SC kit?  Would it come with the tach tape?  And on locomotives with two sets of motors, like semi scale Big Boys and Cab Forwards, which motor would you stick it on?  Could you perhaps set it up for one on each to get the best sound to visual match on duel engined steamers?

GRJ, looks like another great idea for improvement and I hope the plan comes together for you. I only have diesels, but the calibration mode sounds really interesting to me.

Hi John 

As you know I do the super chuffer upgrade a lot. As we know the magnets and the Reed switch work fairly good, we know it's not fool proof. I can only hope your new idea works, it's a great idea and will be just about fool proof, do your magic and make this work. Please keep us posted 

Thanks, 

Alex

Very cool!  Should be a great product!

Gunny, Brandy here, I've never attempted to install my Super Chuffer into my Lionel Pennsy  6-28078     2-10-4 yet!

I know that you were working on the optical sensor, and was awaiting all of the "bugs" to be removed. I know that you told me I'd have to go with another type of fan driven smoke unit.

It sounds like that you have taken care of these issues, so what do I need to purchase from "Hennings" now, so go ahead with the installation? 

Thanks in advance

You better get this stuff patented before some steals it, and it shows up in all the new trains. 

Do you not sleep at night ? Just think about trains 24 /7?

Great work John!

Thanks guys.

It's not quite in production yet.   Before I can really sell a bunch of these, I have to arrange for board fabrication and assembly.  I can build one or two, but not a bunch, takes too much time to solder all those little parts onto the boards!  I'm just happy to finally get it working, I've thought about it for some time.

JGL, there is no provision for it to stay exactly in sync with the drivers.  I have never actually tried to have the chuffs using the magnets be at exactly the right place, I'm normally just shooing for the proper amount of chuffs for a driver rev.  Truthfully, I've watched factory locomotives at slow speed, and I don't believe those are any closer to the "correct" timing than mine will be.  There can also be some small amount of "creep" of the chuff using the tach, though for several revs of the driver they'll look pretty close.  I'm guessing that can happen with any system that uses the tach to generate the chuffs.

As far as synchronizing two motors, that ain't happening!   The sound sets for articulated locomotives already account for the two sets of drivers, so adding more chuffs makes it sound really bad, I actually tried that early on with the Super-Chuffer, it was not pretty!

This will be a separate sale item, it could actually be used without the Super-Chuffer if you have a source of 5VDC to power the board.  There will also be some installations where you might not be able to use it, no flywheel, no clearance for the encoder, odd shaped flywheel, etc.   Until I find out how much it's going to cost to make it, I don't have a price for it.

Where do I sign up for two.  I was just about to install your optical sensor in a 3rdrail Mohawk and a Hudson.  Both still have their tack tapes on the flywheel.  I'll be waiting for these boards instead.

It's going to be a bit of time before they are available.  As soon as I get the second run of boards and do a bit more extensive testing, I'll be looking for production pricing.  As you can see from the prototype, there were a few "adjustments" after the fact.  I made a couple of assumptions that I should have looked at more carefully, so there was some carving of the boards to make the prototype work.  Hopefully, all the corrections are on the second board run.  If so, and all goes well, I can make enough to have some "beta" testers actually run them.  Nothing like the real world to shake out the bugs.

I was just going to ask if you needed beta testers. As a Avionics tech I solder surface mount components very well!

otherwise I'm in no rush, both engines have reed switches and occasionally get a double chuff

Great work John. If your idea doesn't work, you can always replace the reed switch with a "Hall Effect" sensor:

http://www.digikey.com/product...-solid-state/1967446

You mentioned you have trouble soldering the SMT parts. If you want I can post up links to the equipment and solder paste I use at work to do SMT. There is equipment starting at $100.

superwarp1 posted:

I was just going to ask if you needed beta testers. As a Avionics tech I solder surface mount components very well!

We'll work out a payment schedule, for every ten you solder up, you get to keep one.

Matt A posted:

Great work John. If your idea doesn't work, you can always replace the reed switch with a "Hall Effect" sensor:

http://www.digikey.com/product...-solid-state/1967446

You mentioned you have trouble soldering the SMT parts. If you want I can post up links to the equipment and solder paste I use at work to do SMT. There is equipment starting at $100.

 I looked at hall effect sensors, but the magnets are the major issue as a rule, and you still need those.  I actually have several hall effect sensors in my parts box that I experimented with.  I decided that the idea of using the flywheel tach reader was a better way to go, and it allows me to program any number of chuffs I'd like as a bonus.

I did go looking at SMT fabrication stuff for low volume, but I sure didn't find any solutions for $100!  You need to create a paste stencil for the solder paste, and then there's the IR reflow oven... 

John, I think this is a winner. I have a couple of MTH with Proto 2. Still functioning but really  not in love with the sounds. The 2 biggest concerns going from DCS to TMCC is the antenna and the chuff trigger. MTH already has a striped flywheel. Changing it out to ERR cruise, Railsounds 5 just got a heck of lot easier.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

superwarp1 posted:

I was just going to ask if you needed beta testers. As a Avionics tech I solder surface mount components very well!

We'll work out a payment schedule, for every ten you solder up, you get to keep one.

Matt A posted:

Great work John. If your idea doesn't work, you can always replace the reed switch with a "Hall Effect" sensor:

http://www.digikey.com/product...-solid-state/1967446

You mentioned you have trouble soldering the SMT parts. If you want I can post up links to the equipment and solder paste I use at work to do SMT. There is equipment starting at $100.

 I looked at hall effect sensors, but the magnets are the major issue as a rule, and you still need those.  I actually have several hall effect sensors in my parts box that I experimented with.  I decided that the idea of using the flywheel tach reader was a better way to go, and it allows me to program any number of chuffs I'd like as a bonus.

I did go looking at SMT fabrication stuff for low volume, but I sure didn't find any solutions for $100!  You need to create a paste stencil for the solder paste, and then there's the IR reflow oven... 

Only have to build twenty to get two, well

I use err cruise without fly wheels. What do I do.

Romiller

John, So this can back fit to any previous super chuffer?  The software is on tach board for calibration?   Keeping profile as small as possible for those small steam engines would be beneficial.  Also would it be able to give single chuff per single stripe read?  Or even half it so 2 reads require a chuff.  I could see adding 4 quartered stripes to a driver, and mounting this on a chassis to read those stripes.  For engines without flywheels, or in those cases to get a precise chuff to driver.  Many times getting a reed in place was not too much of an issue with at leas one driver, but the magnets were.  So I could envision using this to read a stripe on the driver.   G

romiller49 posted:

I use err cruise without fly wheels. What do I do.

Romiller

magnets and a reed switch or John's optical sensor he came up with last year.

romiller49 posted:

I use err cruise without fly wheels. What do I do.

Romiller

Remember that glue, magnets, and reed switch? You still need them.

GGG posted:

John, So this can back fit to any previous super chuffer?  The software is on tach board for calibration?   Keeping profile as small as possible for those small steam engines would be beneficial.  Also would it be able to give single chuff per single stripe read?  Or even half it so 2 reads require a chuff.  I could see adding 4 quartered stripes to a driver, and mounting this on a chassis to read those stripes.  For engines without flywheels, or in those cases to get a precise chuff to driver.  Many times getting a reed in place was not too much of an issue with at leas one driver, but the magnets were.  So I could envision using this to read a stripe on the driver.   G

 George, this will indeed mate with any existing Super-Chuffer installation, you just move the wire from the existing chuff switch to this board and it's installed.  As far as the calibration limits, you can use from one stripe to 65000 stripes to generate one chuff.  The only limitation in the existing code is I generate a 10ms pulse for the chuff out, so if you have four stripes on your wheel, and you wanted to generate a chuff for each stripe, the maximum RPM would be 1200, probably not a problem.  However, you would probably have to arrange a mount of some type for the sensor and cable back to the board to make it work.  The sensor I used is the QRE1113, so you need to be between .5 and 1.5mm away from the reflective surface.  Also, many times the drivers have more side-to-side slop than 1mm, that would likely cause an issue similar to my problems with magnets. 

I guess the bottom line is, depending on the circumstances, it could be used.  However, I confess that it wasn't designed with that in mind, I was pretty set on just using it on the flywheel.  I don't know if the using a different sensor might yield a better solution for the wheels.  The OPB606 or OPB607 sensors have a longer effective sensing distance, and using one of those with this board might work.  OTOH, having all the stuff on this board is overkill if you just want to generate 1:1 chuffs from sensor inputs.

My original idea with the previous optical solution was as you suggest, the reflective tape is thin and the sensor had a larger sensing range.  I was going to expand on that idea, but I had always wanted to go with the flywheel solution, so I figured this was probably more universal.  I have used the OPB607 bare with just a couple of resistors and a cap to trigger the chuff on several locomotives with good success.

Well, sign me up for beta testing, which means I need to finally go order the upgrade boards for a coupe of my locomotives.  Good thing Thursday is payday.

I think Thursday is a bit premature.

It's great that you are innovative enough to go forward with this great idea.

Alan

ajzend posted:

It's great that you are innovative enough to go forward with this great idea.

Alan

Or crazy enough?

This is awesome - I always wanted something like this for my ERRCo upgrades. Not so much interested in smoke unit control though.

Well, if you just want chuff generation with no smoke, you could use this to trigger the chuff.  You will have to supply a small 5VDC power supply, that's as simple as a diode, cap, and a 5V LM92 regulator.  I really made it for compatibility with the Super-Chuffer that already has 5VDC available.

John,

I've always hated those magnets so I love this idea - Brilliant!!!

Yep, I got tired of fighting with them as well, finally thought I should do something about it.

GRJ,

Random thinking here... with this flywheel tach reader could there be a Super Chuffer with cruise control in the future?  

I'm certain it is a lot of work, but it seems like a doable thing.

JGL

John,

You are more than welcome to experiment on the  K-Line Mikado that I dropped off with you at last fall's York.  It was going to receive all your upgrades anyway.

Nick

JohnGaltLine posted:

GRJ,

Random thinking here... with this flywheel tach reader could there be a Super Chuffer with cruise control in the future?  

I'm certain it is a lot of work, but it seems like a doable thing.

JGL

Uhh.... NO! That is a horse of a TOTALLY different color!

machinist posted:

John,

You are more than welcome to experiment on the  K-Line Mikado that I dropped off with you at last fall's York.  It was going to receive all your upgrades anyway.

Nick

You may be a beta tester, I have one on the bench, and one in front of yours. If I have good boards and parts, I might do it as it's easier than the magnets.

JohnGaltLine posted:

GRJ,

Random thinking here... with this flywheel tach reader could there be a Super Chuffer with cruise control in the future?  

I'm certain it is a lot of work, but it seems like a doable thing.

JGL

You can do this with PS-2 or 3 and with Lionel already if you go with OEM parts.  So it would be reinventing the wheel, let alone Back Emf eliminate magnets and tach board for cruise purposes.  It is really a shame the ERR board doesn't have a selectable chuff trigger based on back emf, but maybe that is a patent issue with MTH.   G

I tend to doubt the back-EMF could accurately enough generate the chuff.  Every different motor or locomotive would have a different chuff rate, that would be difficult to deal with.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Matt A posted:

You mentioned you have trouble soldering the SMT parts. If you want I can post up links to the equipment and solder paste I use at work to do SMT. There is equipment starting at $100.

I did go looking at SMT fabrication stuff for low volume, but I sure didn't find any solutions for $100!  You need to create a paste stencil for the solder paste, and then there's the IR reflow oven... 

John you don't need a stencil or reflow oven to build low volume prototypes. Here is a basic list to get you started:

Hot air rework station $215. I typically set the station to 330*C and set the air flow around 3. You need to play around with the air flow. Too much air flow blows the parts away, too little and the parts take forever to solder. http://www.madelltech.com/M3-1.html   They have a non digital option for $125 http://www.madelltech.com/m3.html

For solder paste I use digikey KE1507-ND. Technitool has it cheaper but the minimum order is $50. Digikey also has cheaper brands but I have not tried them. Solder paste must be kept cold when not in use to prolong the life. Leaving it out overnight won't cause it to go bad but leaving it out for a month straight will (the flux dries out and the paste becomes hard and can't be easily dispensed). Technitool does require overnight shipment on this product. I do not know if digikey does or not.

You need a plunger to dispense the solder paste digikey 10LL4-ND

You also need a tip for the solder paste. The tip threads into the end of the solder paste syringe. Typically I use in the 20-22 gauge size with a needle tip from technitool. I don't see why this type from digikey KDS20TN25-ND  wouldn't work (they don't have needle tip in the 20-22gauge size). Note this part number is for 25 pieces, they are not $10 each.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you have questions.

I just tin the board a bit and solder one pin or end. Then touch the rest or other side. I would like a hot air to remove parts, but to make a few boards, it's just not necessary. One tip for ICs with a lot of pins is to just flow the solder with an iron on the entire side of pins, and then touch the row of pins with desoldering braid and run the iron along it. The excess solder bridges disappear. A pretty hot iron reduces the time you have to apply heat and the parts remain cool, relatively.