Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽

Arnie - as you often do, great post filled with things I have never seen or encountered.  Great stuff...thank you

Don

Arne,

The signal boxes (what we would call towers) are very nicely done. Thanks for sharing.

Tom

Here is one of my pandemic projects.  I disassembled this engine and tender years ago and primed it sometime prior to 2015.  Last year as the pandemic went on, with no train shows, and not seeing much to buy, I started on some of my projects.  This got painted and then sat the winter prior to re-assembly.  I finally got what I could get done, finished and then took it to a friend to re-assemble, as I knew I was missing parts and he could get it back together.  Picked it up today.  It is running with 3 of the Millennium Mayflower cars. 

NWL

A recent delivery.  It had wax residue on it from a previous poor cleaning, so after disassembling it and cleaning it properly, it looks much better.  This is c. 1930

NWL

Couple of new find this week ... one a cheep and cheerful Bing from the 20's or 30's

Its just so cute and cartoonish I could not resist

Obviously a very low end set , but when has that ever stopped me ... poor cheapies need lovin' too!

The second item has sparked me on a google-fu finger frenzy over the last few days as I was tossing up whether to have a bid on it or not , and all I have managed to come up with so far is the manufacturer "ZAX" is a sought after Italian maker from pre-war and post war times , but the majority of stuff post war I can find is made of wood or wood/tin/bakelite composites ... although I did find one toy car that was diecast in a large size pre-war , so obviously they had the capability at some point ?

sourced locally in Australia in an auction at a very good price ( if its real lol ) ... I really need some help with this one ! if its legit it could well be another bargain buster acquisition?

It doesnt seem likely to me that an Italian company would make a model of an "Outdated " USA Streamliner after the war , so could it possibly be from the Golden Age in the mid to late 30's?

Not in hand yet but it appears to be quite a quality cast alloy body and tin base toy with possibly bakelite or early composite plastic wheels ?

It could well be later in manufacture though , 50's on? I am really scratching the dirt for info on this one and cant make up my mind .. it seems too good to be early early , and yet old enough as well ? screws being all plain domed and rivets etc certainly would take "modern" out of the picture .

Oh should mention its quite large at 58cm or roughly 23" long

I have seen mention of the term ZAX- A.L.P.I.A.  bandied about with the wooden trains ( and they are ALL spendy! )

I have also read that ZAX was founded in Bergano Italy in 1946 , but I have seen auctions where cast cars were listed as pre-war .. most post war stuff I find is wood/composite tin/bakelite

https://www.vintageexperience....pubblicitario-cynar/  <-- hold onto your wallets folks!

Any and all help appreciated on this one !

Nice find @Fatman

Simon if you take a look in the book Collecting toy trains by Ron McCrindell you will find this Flying Yankee set. He dates it from the fifties and made in Italy by Zax.  For me it is more looking from that period than earlier, unfortunately i have never seen one.... Anyway excellent acquisition.

Love the look of the little BING loco too, very cute.

Very best, Daniel

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well. 

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

I want one

Fatman, Great find.  I note that if you look at the picture of the under portion of the train it uses the words "modello dept" in the area not covered by paint which would be "model department" in Italian so its heritage in Italy seems solid.  Really neat.  NWL - neat Flyer tank car and great work on the Hiawatha.

Best Regards

Don

Finally purchased my first standard gauge locomotive.  I've had cars going back nearly 15 years to the first and track for over 5.  Last year I finally set up the loop around the Christmas tree with a borrowed locomotive.

This photo is a repost from last Christmas.

This year, I finally got around to purchasing a locomotive.  Nothing fancy, just a #8, but nothing speaks Christmas to me quite like tinplate.  I think with all the stresses of the modern world (not that there hasn't been stress in the past, I just think we have a romanticized vision of it), a simple train around the tree is just so festive and relaxing.

I also have a lot of random tinplate in my collection that has been picked up at auction.  This is an interesting vintage Flyer item.

GG1 4877,

The 1107/1108 cars with roadnames are some of my favorites.

There are the 1914-1915 series cars with wood litho patterns, with these being a couple of examples

Missing from the above are a UP baggage and a Penn Line in blue.

In 1917, Flyer again started making road name cars, first with the 1107 passenger cars and then later with the 1108 baggage cars.  Here are some of the baggage car examples.  I believe the Santa Fe car is the most difficult baggage to find.

Penn RR in brown

Penn RR in maroon

And of course the Northwestern Line, which you already posted a photo of

NWL

Your examples are much better than mine!  Still interesting to have a bit of history.

I also have the observation.  Posed it next to a GGD conversion project I still haven't finished.  I believe this one is a Bing.

Hey GG1, a nice looking early No. 8; looks like it may have been re-wheeled. That'll look great circling the tree this year. Hope you have a great one!

PD

@pd posted:

Hey GG1, a nice looking early No. 8; looks like it may have been re-wheeled. That'll look great circling the tree this year. Hope you have a great one!

PD

You are correct.  The wheels are reproduction, but I am fine with that as I'm looking for a solid runner.  I plan on having a great Christmas and I'll post video of this train running.  Hope yours is great as well!

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well.

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

Nice work.  I hope I run like that when I'm 80 years old.

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well.

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

Beautiful locomotive and tender; glad you got it running again.

Tom

Club videos from our two day open house.

Scott Smith

If we're going to bring up the colorful Flyer 4 wheel litho baggage cars we might as well include their Hafner brothers.

American Express

Adams Express

Might as well include some un-marked cars as well

Of course they are all American Flyer 1108 cars, just unmarked.

Merry Christmas!! (Socks said to say Woof!)

Sometimes you just have to live with the dirt.

   Awhile back I purchased two #59 Lionel lamps which were complete, not only with their original main boxes but also with the boxes and their contents - two No. 40 light bulbs.

  When they arrived I took everything out, screwed in the light bulbs and looked them over.  The light bulbs were, to put it mildly - filthy. Both bulbs appeared to be frosted so I took the first bulb and gently scrubbed it with a damp cloth and mild soap.  The transformation was nothing short of spectacular.  The frosted bulb (on the left) went from dirty to diamond.

  While the bulb on the right might not look too bad in the picture - trust me - it looked a lot worse in real life....So, given the success with the first bulb, I took the second and started to carefully clean it...

  The end result is, as you can see, very clean and also very different from what it was

  It turns out at some point in time Lionel shifted from purchasing actual frosted glass light bulbs to clear glass light bulbs coated with some kind of VERY water soluble white paint.  Both bulbs came in boxes with identical markings so there was nothing to indicate there might have been a difference in the two No.40's.

  The bulb paint was so soluble that a single pass with the damp cloth stripped away a wide swath. Since that made the bulb look even worse I just went ahead and cleaned the whole thing.  It would be a simple matter to dip the clear bulb in some flat white, water soluble, latex paint but I'm going to leave it alone -  my own monument to being a bit too concerned with cleanliness.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Sometimes you just have to live with the dirt.

   Awhile back I purchased two #59 Lionel lamps which were complete, not only with their original main boxes but also with the boxes and their contents - two No. 40 light bulbs.

  When they arrived I took everything out, screwed in the light bulbs and looked them over.  The light bulbs were, to put it mildly - filthy. Both bulbs appeared to be frosted so I took the first bulb and gently scrubbed it with a damp cloth and mild soap.  The transformation was nothing short of spectacular.  The frosted bulb (on the left) went from dirty to diamond.

  While the bulb on the right might not look too bad in the picture - trust me - it looked a lot worse in real life....So, given the success with the first bulb, I took the second and started to carefully clean it...

  The end result is, as you can see, very clean and also very different from what it was

  It turns out at some point in time Lionel shifted from purchasing actual frosted glass light bulbs to clear glass light bulbs coated with some kind of VERY water soluble white paint.  Both bulbs came in boxes with identical markings so there was nothing to indicate there might have been a difference in the two No.40's.

  The bulb paint was so soluble that a single pass with the damp cloth stripped away a wide swath. Since that made the bulb look even worse I just went ahead and cleaned the whole thing.  It would be a simple matter to dip the clear bulb in some flat white, water soluble, latex paint but I'm going to leave it alone -  my own monument to being a bit too concerned with cleanliness.

You could spray it with a glass frosting, which can be found in the window blinds section of Menards.  You will likely need a couple of coats, and would want to have the bulb in some sort of junk socket (to protect the part of the bulb that screws into a nice socket).

Very unassuming pick up this week from a cold and chilly UK

Well it tells the tale very much of a huge part of the German toy industry in the Pre WWI era ... On first glance 99% of train collectors will look at it and say " Nice Karl Bub locomotive" but it isnt?

( Correction from @Arne It was made by BUB , but had the G & C Added to the front beam for inclusion and sale by Carette )

Carette then for the next decade made bits and bobs for most of Germany's top tier toy-makers. After a time Carette realised there was far more money to be gained in making the actual toys himself , and because of his hard work and skill, he began to produce toys that outshone many of his former customers , in 1896 he travelled to the American Expo and demonstrated some of  the first electric trains seen there... As electricity was becoming less rare in the USA scientific toys such as trains became huge ... and with that introduction Carette reached the pinnacle of toy design innovating rather than copying, which set many of his toys above the crowd. But being a good businessman he still had the grace to remember his roots and still work with other firms making items for them to onsell as well

Then the First World War started rumbling , and despite being married to a German lady, he was still seen as "FRENCH" and had to go ... he fled Germany in 1916 and his company was liquidated in 1918 .. much of his tooling etc was snapped up by other manufacturers , which is why people think this little loco is a post WW1  Bub, Bing, or Issmayer ... but in reality it was made a decade earlier by a very clever man

JHZ,

What a great Christmas photo that is, of your dog watching the trains.  Should be on the front of your Christmas cards this year.

My dog goes berserk over the trains, and wants to catch and kill the locomotive.  (Thinks it is a rabbit.)  I have to lock him out of the basement before I run them, because he tries to jump up on the table.

Mannyrock

Fatman - What a great find and a super background story. Thanks for posting.

Don

Fatman,

your loco is a No 480L made by Karl Bub. Was made 1913-1924. Was only sold by Carette. Bub had made this locos with embossed name by request of Carette.

All cheaper trains in the Carette catalogs was never made by Carette, all was buyed by other manufacturer like Bub, Issmayer, Schuhmann and other.

Arne

@Arne posted:

Fatman,

your loco is a No 480L made by Karl Bub. Was made 1913-1924. Was only sold by Carette. Bub had made this locos with embossed name by request of Carette.

All cheaper trains in the Carette catalogs was never made by Carette, all was buyed by other manufacturer like Bub, Issmayer, Schuhmann and other.

Arne

Arne again your knowledge floors me , while I am piecing stuff together as I find it and hopefully getting things right , I can certainly accept correction and indeed welcome it !  I still love the fact this loco is a demonstration of the co-operation between factories at the time to provide a wide range of items ...

I can take it then that this loco IS of the earlier period as it must have been pre 1917 for Georges Carette to want the logo.

Fatman,

yes, was made before 1917.

Sometimes even the knowledge of the experts is not enough. here a car from the Carette catalogs 1911 and 1914, of which the manufacturer is still unknown. It's made too cheaply even for Issmayer.

And again news in the collection.

Bub electric loco from the 50s.

Issmayer tunnel around 1930.

Small Adolf Schuhmann coach for 28 mm gauge from the 20s.

I don´t have a Schuhmann loco in this size, here with a matching Bub loco.

Arne

Arnie - fantastic photos, thanks for posting.  I loved the Bub electric loco from the 50's and the tunnel with a zeppelin on it.

Just for fun, here is my MUCH NEWER Bub loco and train.  Likely from the 60's although I really can't say for sure but his drivers are plastic so that would say at least middle to late 50's probably later.

Here he is with his little train.

Here he shows his "Bub" logo on the front just below the boiler.

To go earlier, here is a Hornby M0 train in its initial livery, about 1930.

Best wishes to all...

Don

Back from an antique toy show last sunday, I returned at home with a little JEP set from 1931 in high voltage. Not a great model, entry level set with a very simplified steam engine, no linkage, handrails or anything, Hard to make more simple. Anyway I find a little charm of it's own to those little pieces.

Very best,  Daniel

That power supply is intriguing!  I think a very interesting collection could be made entirely of early power supply systems.

Daniel what an interesting set and the condition is just amazing considering its age.  The light bulb to change resistance and hence reduce voltage  as Palallin said, an interesting historical study in itself.   I can't imaging what Mom's of the day thought about their children playing with toys plugged directly into the 220 volt mains!!

Best wishes

Don

A few interesting news in the collection.

Only a box picture, but it´s Bing from 1898

Bing crane 9197, made 1904-1909

Karl Bub coaches 831W, made around 1910

Fandor coal car 1156, made 1935-1937 with tools from Bing

Arne

At the end of the year, i´m cleaning a couple of cars, today a few Bing observation cars.

Arne

Arnie. Quite a haul. Thanks for posting. I will keep your picture as a reference in case I spot something and can ‘t determine the mfr.  seems like there is little data on such makes as KBN, Bing, and others.
Happy holidays

Don

Dang Arne,

That's a beautiful set of coach cars, especially the smaller 4 wheelers.  They really embody the tinplate age.

Mannyrock

Far too quiet in here Folks !

Hoping everyone had a wonderful Xmas and that 2022 brings you much joy and happiness ( its a tad overdue I think?)

Been busy squirreling away some new finds with the awesome help of a few friends far and wide

A little Hornby Nord , Quite a cutie , sadly missing his other side wheel splasher ( which will be hard to find I think , he might have to do with something else for a while )

Coming with him is some nice little wagons .. A Nord Brakemans and a PLM Tarpaulin wagon

Also coming for a holiday in the sunny South are a bevvy of German beauties

A nice little post war HWN with brake and reversing

Some HWN freight and Passenger

Banana and Baggage wagons

Some lovely DSG Coaches in very good condition!

And a gaggle of assorted Bub !

But the stand out little beauty of the bunch is a Konrad Dressler Kranwagen ( I love a good Kran! )

I hadn't seen this set up before , but the actual Crane reminded me of something I had seen before on an over track accessory pillar crane , It looks to be the same unit indeed , but here it is on an actual  KD Chassis for track use

One handle for rotation of the whole crane cab , the other for in and out with the crane line ... Ima little in love

( picture below borrowed from our friends at cuccioloazzurro.com all rights to them )

Same same cab crane !

@Fatman posted:

A little Hornby Nord , Quite a cutie , sadly missing his other side wheel splasher ( which will be hard to find I think , he might have to do with something else for a while )

Coming with him is some nice little wagons .. A Nord Brakemans and a PLM Tarpaulin wagon

Hello Simon, sad to see this little Hornby without her right side splasher,   looking in the spare parts department and .... voila .... Any interest ???? Not new but it can be ship down under very easyly....

All my best wishes,   Daniel

Daniel you are a living Treasure !!!!

I was actually going to email you after the New Year ( to give you some peace over the holidays lol ) asking if you could look in your spares or keep an eye out for me for one !

I would most definitely be interested and thank you so much!

Just proves why @FRENCHTRAINS are best !

( actually he will fit in perfectly as the rest of the loco is no stunner ... its Period AND Patina correct ! )