TMCC Smoke unit low output

I have lots of these low smoking F units. The biggest fault is you just cannot fill the smoke units effectively w/o dribbling it out all over the place.

First replace the wadding. cutting the sleeve off is a good move. Next, invest in a needle smoke fluid applicator for these. Over sizing the hole sometimes just creates more airflow and still no smoke.

Getting enough fluid in the right spot is key....

Does the 9 second hold just apply to F3's, or should that be used on other TMCC locomotives as well?

The 9 second hold works for most TMCC units. But I would refer to your owners manual to confirm.

I had replaced the wadding and used a needle nose bottle fill it.  The thing is that the fan seem to be too quiet and not moving at full speed.

That is a different issue then. Can you confirm the impeller is not being impeded by anything?

Next pull the motor connector and see if you are getting the proper volts with a Digital Multi Meter check.

Is the motor making any noises?

I have insure that nothing is in the way of the impeller and if I knew how to use a Multi meter I would.  I can touch the brass out take ring without getting burned after the unit has been running quite q while if that helps any.  There is no noise except for a faint hum of the fan running.  The I rebuild the powered units smoker and it smoke like a champ and it fan is considerably louder but still quiet.

I remember something in the older TMCC smoke units that the impeller and fan were wired wrong and if so the two wires had to be switched.  I can't remember which way the impeller had to be turning, clockwise or counterclockwise?  Maybe someone can confirm this?

Clockwise.  Also it is not 9 sec hold, it is Aux1 9 for a few seconds to boost.  G

Yes, I know the first release of Allegheny locomotives had this issue, but I have not heard the F3's having a problem.

Can you give us a product number and road name? 

Other quick checks you can do is maybe swap out the motor. Is the locomotive and dummy smoke motors both slow? Also, does the heater element get red hot. Take a look at the Nichrome wire when you flip the board over and open it up.

If the motor is not running at the proper speed, first check for the impeller hitting the PCB or pressed on too hard and rubbing on the bottom of the fan chamber.  If that's OK, you could either have a bad motor or the regulator on the smoke unit has failed.  Either are an easy fix, you just have to identify which one it is.

Nothing pressing on the motor to slow the motor down and the brass piece doesn't get very hot as I can put my finger on it after running it for an hour and the fan just seems too quiet so maybe it is both. 

Some fans run very quiet, the key is whether there is airflow.  However, the smoke unit has to get hot enough to vaporize the mineral oil (smoke fluid), so maybe something's amiss there.

RRaddict2 posted:

Nothing pressing on the motor to slow the motor down and the brass piece doesn't get very hot as I can put my finger on it after running it for an hour and the fan just seems too quiet so maybe it is both. 

Sounds like your resistor is bad. Tough to tell with out a continuity checker. Or a resistance reading from your DMM.

I have damaged a smoke resistor before when cutting off the sleeve.

Thanks, I have extra resistors on hand. If it doesn't work not a big deal as it won't damage the resistor.  I am leaning more towards the fan as compared side by side with the trailing unit and the powered unit is not blowing as hard.

Well, I'd check the regulator, cap, and diode first on the smoke unit.  If the fan's running slow, they would be my top suspects.  Of course, it could be the motor as well.

I have no clue as to what a regulator looks like but I think for my sanity's sake and the rest of the forum members sake I will just buy a new smoke unit.

Swap smoke units and see what happens...

That is an idea that I have thought of but it seems that Lionel or the previous owner put a different smoke unit in the dummy unit.  In the main unit there is no gasket on smoke unit between the circuit board and unit with the fan. The main unit has a brass output and the dummy unit doesn't. The dummy unit has a gasket but no brass outlet.  I asked Lionel and they said this was normal but it doesn't seem like it should be and the inner funnels are different. .  The circuit boards looks the same minus the brass outlet ring.  These are sound runners and it's only one smoke unit that has a problem so I think I will just order another smoke unit and see if the correct one is even in there or not. I have to place an order for some other parts so I might as well get one now.

RRaddict2 posted:

I have no clue as to what a regulator looks like but I think for my sanity's sake and the rest of the forum members sake I will just buy a new smoke unit.

I think I need to stand by your trash can and rescue stuff like this.   For want of a 20 cent regulator or diode, you're going to toss the smoke unit?

I have no idea where a diode or regulator is located on the smoke unit.  I can solder but I have no idea of the value of either of those parts or where they are located.  I did look the smoke unit up on Lionel last night and the one in the unit does not look anything like the one in their picture. This of course could be due to a design change in the smoke unit as the originals had to be modified to get them to put our a descent amount of smoke.  I am still waiting for Lionel to get back to me if there was a change.

Pictures are always useful for times like this.

Don't feel bad,  last time I tried to solder in a new diode on a fan regulator board for a set of TMCC CCII TrainMaster demonstrators, the board copper strip started to just disappear on me. The more times I tried the uglier it got!... You still might want to swap smoke units just to confirm if its the  problem....

I will post some pictures when I get to my PC at home. 

This is what I am looking at does anyone see anything wrong here?  The units has great output while the 9 button is pushed but quickly goes to a trickle when it is released.

The three components at the edge are the 5V supply for the fan, you should check and see if you're getting 5VDC out of them when the smoke unit is energized.  The smoke unit resistor should be in the 27 ohm range, anything from around 25 to 30 ohms measured is normal.

Is the 5V power supply on the board with the resistor or located somewhere else?

Lionel said it was the AC regulator so I ordered a new one. I will updae once I get it and it is installed.

That unit has the 8 ohm smoke unit with a regulator.  If the resistor is truly close to 8 ohms, the regulator is a top suspect.