Jeff, somehow, I didn't follow your thread but went through the whole thing tonight. Your work ethic and layout are impressive to say the least.
Things sure are coming along nicely Jeff! I hope you make the deadline for your grandson!
Wow, time flies. Decided to lay in Masonite backdrops. Here are the results. Even though the paint is a flat grey/blue it reflects light better, making the rom seem larger and brighter. The upper levels were removed to aid the install.
Following on an older discussion, I really am having doubts on the middle island. An idea that keeps returning is building a dock for a small water feature. I am thinking about shifting the island "left" 6 inches (that still leaves 18 inches to access the wall area. On the inner right side (actually left side at that point) parallel with the lower yard adding a long warehouse along the track would add visual interest and switching operations potential. I see running the layout mainly from the right side of the layout.
Saw the post from Todd's Architectural Models and their backdrop warehouses - got the ideas flowing. @Todds Architectural Models Now to figure out how to make it happen.
@DoubleDAZ Dave - its been awhile, if you have any suggestions here, I would appreciate comments. Space is 2x5 for the island surface - give or take. I'll have to go back and review the waterfront ideas posted earlier. Jeff
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The Masonite looks great! Hope you get your ideas worked out. I'll be watching to see where you go with this!
Jeff, the backdrop looks great! Will the foreground be all industrial or will you add some countryside? Dock scenes are always eye catching on layouts.
Nice and neat work Jeff!
Dave
The backdrops look good Jeff.
I like the shift of the island too. An ore or coal dock scene with a big freighter in the water would be a real statement piece. The height would be a good visual break between the two sides of the layout too.
@RSJB18 posted:The backdrops look good Jeff.
I like the shift of the island too. An ore or coal dock scene with a big freighter in the water would be a real statement piece. The height would be a good visual break between the two sides of the layout too.
Wow, Bob. Those would be great, but are massive. Ore from the Missabe Range was hauled to Conneaut, Ohio, right on the Pennsylvania state line, then hauled by the B&LE to the mills in Pittsburgh. They passed within a mile of where I live.
Decided to post a layout update here instead of the usual place. For several months I have been going back and forth on the placement of the grain terminal and dock area. I had it on both sides in this view. The CEO suggested it move close to its current location.
After some consideration, I revamped the inner loop to take advantage of the location spotted by the CEO but also provide track for loading cars and barges on the water feature. That required tearing out the existing right to left track and installing a left to right plan. In order to get reasonable grades, grade starts its decline about where the tape rule is at the bottom right corner. (the cut area is visible along the concrete wall.) I am trying to keep this no more than 4% grade. The track should level out once it hits the loading area. Now the question is whether to use the 1x6 silo config shown, split in 3 - 3, or stack the columns in a 2x3 config.
The left side drops about 2 inches then rises back to grade behind the silos. The turnout seen on the left will split into two tracks for grain loading. Those tracks will drop an additional 2 inches +/- to account for a reasonable transition of the water line over the entire inner space.
As I was going over the area, I confirmed to myself that older warehouse space generally had no more than a 40 foot span between columns and often 24 feet. This is important because the factory windows I wanted to use would not work very well across a 12 inch / 48 foot span. Now to do additional mockups using 32 and 40 scale feet between columns.
This is what it used to look like before I deconstructed the area.
Maybe an interesting note; the hoppers shown are Atlas low side Hoppers - the only ones I could find that have the ability to open the covers. I had the Wayne Seed hopper and to be honest wondered why Atlas made one that opened since the latches are easily broken. Now that I built the silo and have the discharge assembly, I am glad to have the ability to open them to display loading operations.
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Jeff, I know nothing about grain silos, but I like the symmetrical 3-3 look. That is a good idea to stage the hoppers with the hatches open. I don't have any covered hoppers, but I do have about 8 reefers and like the ones that have opening hatches. I don't ever plan to have an icing platform, but I think the opening hatches always stand out over molded ones.
Jeff, I just love all your elevation changes. Those are such a challenge for me. I also know nothing of grain silos, however I love all your buildings in the town behind the silos. Therefore, my vote would be for a 3/2 config just to make sure those buildings get seen too. Just my 2 cents! Whatever you choose will look great and will be yours. Thanks for sharing.
Mike
@LT1Poncho Mike, the last photo was in a location which severely obstructed the view of the town. I've been mainly posting on "what did you do" but decided this needed to be on the TPRR thread. At this point I need to decide on whether to use the 3-3 look seen on the last photo or the 1-6 seen on the first photo. I tend to prefer the symmetry of the 3-3 configuration. The center building is a mock-up and will have more detail in the next structure. The most difficult thing for me to conceptualize are the elevation changes, I know I want them ( makes everything more interesting IMO) but challenging to model them. I used the L-Girder method which really allows one to easily do the elevation changes but I slapped sheet plywood over the top thinking I could change it later.
this video shows how these cars are loaded. 6 minutes per car. I prefer a cushier job, especially at those temps.
Regardless this is where the silos will go. I tend to use transformer control so this is the most likely view. The second image is looking at it from a 90 degree turn from the left of the 1st image.
This view will look down the water feature. Water will be on 3 sides. I think there is enough room to do a drop down so the water could be continuous from left to right side. Yeah there would be a seam in the middle -- but ....
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Hi Jeff, things are looking up. My thoughts are if you go with the 3-3 setup and put the silos to the right of the center building, that would leave you room to the left for different companies that might need RR shipping. Just a thought!
Mike, my thoughts as well. I have to trim more off the left side plywood in order to make the silo tracks come in at a reasonable angle. I will end up using a couple of lengths of Atlas flex track to make the curves something over 045. Those hoppers bind on them but roll freely on 054.
I'll push the silos as far right as practical. I am leaning toward an 1-6 configuration to give space for hopper loading.
Ah, well since 1-6 gives space for hopper loading, then that’s definitely the way to go. 👍🏻
Yes, I find Atlas flex track is far easier to bend to the right shape than GarGraves. I know lots of folks have mastered the GarGraves bend, but I ended up making a mess even trying to follow videos. 😄
Jeff- I like the look of the 6 silos lined up with the building in the center.
Not that a guy from Lawn-guy-land knows much about grain silos.
The closest I used to get to a silo was on our local Dairy Barn Store......
Bob
I have an Atlas 072/054 curve turnout on order thru the bay. That should help fit in the double track feed.
Spending ones life in the Midwest and in particular Chicago and Central Illinois, some things stand out; 1) we are very flat here, 2) the soil is great for growing crops, 3) get outside the Chicago metro area and all you will see for 200 miles west or south will be corn and soybean fields, 4) at least for corn, farmers can get 200 bushels per acre that means a LOT of grain harvested, 5) every 10 to 20 miles there will be a small town with a grain elevator and rr tracks alongside to move the grain to market.
Especially in winter when the fields are dirt, it is quite easy to watch the sun set over the fields. Not quite like watching it set over water, but pretty close. Do a google map search and head south along I-57 to Champaign or Effingham and you will understand what I mean.
I can vouch for the corn, grain, and big silos when I took two trips to Mattoon for work. The silos we see in Appalachia are on old barns the same as when I was growing up.
Layout work update. The curved Atlas switch arrived a week or so ago and it works as I thought it would. Now I have to figure out how to make the section "slide-out-able". My original idea will not work as smoothly as I would like so it will be a little fiddling to get everything right. Good thing there is only a "one way in" in this section and most of the rail can be unpowered.
While I was waiting for the switch, the gears were turning again - I have on order 18 feet of code 148 2 rail flex track and 19 trolley poles. Phosphor bronze wire and rail bender have already arrived. A roller to imprint a brick pattern in clay is also ordered. The idea is to make a 15 foot section of trolley line running through the upper town section. The only problem is that I do not have room to turn (loop) the trolley around so I need to have access to change the trolley poles at each direction change. Both my Western Hobby Craft trolley and K-Line interurban can take power through the overhead poles. I plan to roll out air dry clay and lay it between the track and on each side to create a brick street. The whole assembly (track, street and trolley wire and poles) will be made in a single piece and then laid in place. At least that's the plan. 2 sections are more likely.
Jeff sounds like a great project, and I can tell from what you're saying your pulling out all the stops and going for a masterpiece of a layout! I love watching things come together!
Jeff, the trolley line sounds like it will be a nice addition. The brick pattern will certainly be a nice scenic feature.
Please refresh my memory on what part will be slide-out-able. I’m probably overlooking it as I went back over old posts.
A couple of photos - too hard to explain without.
I think this will be the final resting place for the grain terminal. Remember a water feature will go in front of the terminal for barge loading. Been looking at building a barge and tow boat from scratch.
This is a better view on why I need sections to be easily movable. I can easily reach the wall from the track section left of the boat. The terminal adds 16 inches plus the final depth of the water feature. The terminal itself is far enough right to be in a position that does not need to be moved. However anything left-side needs to be movable in order to reach the tunnel and trolley line which will extend over the buildings on the right. Those will move to another location. Since the engine house is further right from this vantage point, I'll run the trolley further to act as a stop for the train workers. I think my Downtown Deco buildings will be a perfect fit under the trolley line. Those tend to have an older and well worn look.
Just an idea on where the trolley line will run. Most likely I will build it on 3/4 ply wide enough to handle the track, road and trolley poles. That assembly will drop into this area where it will meet up with the town sidewalks and curbs. The curve will have building on both sides of the trolley line, but I think I'll keep the trolley line close to the wall as shown. I like the fronts of the buildings so I am trying to decide which ones will show their back sides.
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@ScoutingDad posted:A couple of photos - too hard to explain without.
I think this will be the final resting place for the grain terminal. Remember a water feature will go in front of the terminal for barge loading. Been looking at building a barge and tow boat from scratch.
This is a better view on why I need sections to be easily movable. I can easily reach the wall from the track section left of the boat. The terminal adds 16 inches plus the final depth of the water feature. The terminal itself is far enough right to be in a position that does not need to be moved. However anything left-side needs to be movable in order to reach the tunnel and trolley line which will extend over the buildings on the right. Those will move to another location. Since the engine house is further right from this vantage point, I'll run the trolley further to act as a stop for the train workers. I think my Downtown Deco buildings will be a perfect fit under the trolley line. Those tend to have an older and well worn look.
Just an idea on where the trolley line will run. Most likely I will build it on 3/4 ply wide enough to handle the track, road and trolley poles. That assembly will drop into this area where it will meet up with the town sidewalks and curbs. The curve will have building on both sides of the trolley line, but I think I'll keep the trolley line close to the wall as shown. I like the fronts of the buildings so I am trying to decide which ones will show their back sides.
The scenery is looking great!
Peter
Please let us know about building a tug and barge. Interested in doing the same.
Bill
Looks good Jeff. I like the trolley line through town. Modular construction sound like the way to go too.
Bob
Okay Jeff, now I got it! Yes, accessibility is a primary concern! Thank you for explaining the plan!!
I built this layout so I could get at most of the track without crawling on top of the layout. A few sections are access from beneath. This shows how the town is built 1 1/2 foam on bracing and the walls kept in place by permanent magnets. So far its worked out well. This is why I can make a modular trolley line and just set it into place. The only question is how long to make each section without requiring a lot of fiddling with the trolley wire. So far I am thinking 3 pieces - 2 straights and 1 curve. Its too bad BridgeBoss closed down, I could use a 4 foot elevated track section.
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Jeff, that is a nice plan! I hadn’t heard BridgeBoss closed, although I wasn’t in the market anyway.
@ogaugenut Bill the forum has quite a few posts on barges docks and boats. Dave Minarik did a nice set of posts on the subject. see this link. barge and boat I reached out to Vac-u-tow to ask about the kit without the motors but got no reply, probably need to call. However the boats are not all that hard to model and build especially with a flat bottom. Frenchman River Models makes tug boat and barge kits. There are others. But for what I am trying to do a tow boat is more appropriate given the space. These boats are used to get single and double barges to an assembly area where a large consist is put together. The barges themselves are simple to make, finding deck parts may be a challenge. I am planning to make a grain barge. These have curved covers to keep the grain dry in transit.
Barge terminal operations explained this link does a pretty good job of explaining how grain gets to a terminal and how they load out. Notice how long the barges are relative to the tow boat. Modern barges are roughly 25 by 200. or 6 1/4 by 50 inches. We have room to modify the dimensions as the barges used for canal transport were much smaller and we could presume some of those made their way to river systems. I am considering 5 to 6 wide by 18 to 24 long no more than 2 inches high.
jeff
Everything is coming together nicely! Looking forward to seeing the trolly line finished.
Thank you for the thorough reply about barges and tugs
Bill
Jeff things are looking good! Thanks for showing how you have a couple places that are lift out. I think the barge this is going to be a great addition to the layout! Tells me I have to keep watching! LOL
Made decent progress today installing the lift out section for access the back of my layout.
I have a bit if tweaking to do, but this is the "happy" assembly of the removable section. The top is a piece of homasote screwed to L girders. A seam is on the left just past the switch and another under the building. Lifts up easily and tracks align properly. Makes for a much easier reach.
This configuration allows loading of 3 grain hoppers. Good thing as I only have 3 that have opening doors on top to locate under the loading chute.
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Well when it rains it pours! My code 148 track and trolley poles arrived! I could not wait to see what they were going to look like in the town. Bought the poles off a guy on one of the scale modeling forums. He did a nice job. They are an inch taller then shown as they are imbedded in the foam base board. I think these will work out quite nicely. This is going to be run off a live trolley wire.
The high rail wheels just fit in the code 148 track - the flanges just barely clear the track spikes.
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I built this layout so I could get at most of the track without crawling on top of the layout. A few sections are access from beneath. This shows how the town is built 1 1/2 foam on bracing and the walls kept in place by permanent magnets. So far its worked out well. This is why I can make a modular trolley line and just set it into place. The only question is how long to make each section without requiring a lot of fiddling with the trolley wire. So far I am thinking 3 pieces - 2 straights and 1 curve. Its too bad BridgeBoss closed down, I could use a 4 foot elevated track section.
Hi Jeff,
How high and long of an elevated section do you need? I have a fusion 360 elevated single track stl
Let me know if you are interested. I'll post a couple of picks of my 2.8% grade elevated tracks.
Your layout looks Great! Love the magnetic access and general layout.
John
Here ya go with pics
I obviously don't know how to add/edit to add pics, My apologies
@Aegis21 Hi John, At one end of the line I am going to extend the track about 4-5 feet to service the engine shed and operations. I had been drawing up plans for an elevated section using laser cut materials. The printed material looks even better. There is a lot of track in the area so I have to figure out where the piers can set. Good thing the trolley is not all that heavy. There is an image about 1/2 way up the this tread showing a side view. There is a grainery and storage tanks and small buildings along the way although the elevated tracks can shift somewhat. Then I have to figure out a platform and that may better determine the track placement.
Deck to bottom of rails is 10 inches Who do you use to print the files? Any idea on ball park print costs? I am just learning Fusion 360 and have been only going through the tutorials so far. Sure requires a different way of thinking, but I can see its power. Jeff
@DoubleDAZ posted:John, you can edit your post to ”insert" images.
Thanks Dave I cleaned it up with your help
@ScoutingDad posted:@Aegis21 Hi John, At one end of the line I am going to extend the track about 4-5 feet to service the engine shed and operations. I had been drawing up plans for an elevated section using laser cut materials. The printed material looks even better. There is a lot of track in the area so I have to figure out where the piers can set. Good thing the trolley is not all that heavy. There is an image about 1/2 way up the this tread showing a side view. There is a grainery and storage tanks and small buildings along the way although the elevated tracks can shift somewhat. Then I have to figure out a platform and that may better determine the track placement.
Deck to bottom of rails is 10 inches Who do you use to print the files? Any idea on ball park print costs? I am just learning Fusion 360 and have been only going through the tutorials so far. Sure requires a different way of thinking, but I can see its power. Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Sounds like you have several obstacles to deal with for sure. Am I reading you need a 10 inch high elevated line? The 3D pieces, I size and print them on a CR-10s PLA printer. The gargraves track fits into a snug fit stanchion which it can be screwed down to for stability. I have not yet tried running a train on it to check load bearing abilities and or stability. The ones in the pics I painted a rust color then did the salt trick and finished with gray hammer paint for a weathered appearance. I check out your prior posts and see what can be done. I guess I should really check if my prints are workable and pass QC lol
