UP 4014 Latest UP info added 1-31-14

Seems like he lacks old time skill and all. Flattening the tires last year. They say they only use the diesels for the dynamic brake so why was that diesel pushing it down the track? Thats what happened there was an issue with the remote control. I dont think in reality the steam engines are working at all anymore really at least not like Steve Lee used to work them. Since Lee left I havent seen 844 run without a diesel Sometime change isnt good. I'm just a fan but new guy scares me. Hows he gona run that big *** engine when he cant even run 844. Seems to be afraid of 3985. Maybe he figues he'll keep himself out of trouble restoring 4014 forever.

 

Well I for one would personally be mystified if the 844 did in fact operate.  It seems to me he has his hands more than full with the 4014.  And don't get me started on the 3985... It is just absolutely horrible what has become of that engine.  Sure I am looking forward to the restoration of the big boy however the 3985 is my personal UP favorite.

HW, you are spot on!

The latest from the UP.

 

Some more info in UP's Community Ties.

Come to Utah, we have the worse air in the nation, our smog is worse than China (seriously, our numbers are worse) LA is great air these days

I live in salt lake and the air here is amongst the worst in the world for sure. December January and February are absolutely  intolerable.. The rest of the year its OK-breathable..

 

jethat, Ogden here. Welcome to the forum, only a few of us around

this was also posted on the UP steam page.

 

"The steam giant is scheduled to depart the Fairplex parking lot in the early morning hours of Sunday, Jan. 26, on the first leg of its 1,293-mile trek. For safety purposes, rail fans are encouraged to view the historic locomotive only at the Covina Metrolink Station. No other public display stops have been scheduled on Metrolink track.

"Union Pacific celebrates employees past and present with the restoration of one of the biggest steam locomotives ever constructed,” said Ed Dickens, senior manager-Union Pacific Heritage Operations. “We appreciate the collaboration with the LA County Fair and Metrolink to make No. 4014's first move on the national rail network safe and efficient."

As part of the operation, UP diesel locomotive No. 3105 also will be delivered to RailGiants Train Museum, located at Fairplex, along with a UP boxcar and caboose. The donated equipment will become a part of the museum's mission to promote the preservation and documentation of all facets of railroading.

The move to Colton is only the first stage of No. 4014's journey to Cheyenne. Final travel preparations will be made in Colton over the next several months before the locomotive departs for Cheyenne. Rail fans are invited to view No. 4014 in Colton Yard on Feb. 1-2, and 8-9, from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Visitors should access the rail yard at 19100 Slover Ave., Bloomington, Calif. Visitors will be permitted in the No. 4014 display area only. There will be no other rail yard access.

For the latest schedule and route map, go to upsteam.com, where you’ll also be able to track the movement of No. 4014 from Fairplex to Colton the morning of Jan. 26."

So is there anything particularly special about the UP 3015 or was it just a convenient one to donate?

 

And Utah is **** proud of the liberty to do so.

 

Yes, that is probably an inappropriate comment but Utah does go out of it's way to deserve it.

 

Don't know for sure, but part of the "trade for the 4014" stipulation from the FairPlex folks was that the particular diesel unit taken in trade, MUST be complete AND operable.

Your welcome to live here come and enjoy the liberty and the dirty air!

We got the last DRGW unpatched unit here in Ogden a few years ago, it came in running and in fact still has 3000 gallons of diesel in it (No one seems to know what to do with it) But the reality is that no one at the Ogden Museum knows how to operate it and I doubt it ever will. Wonder that they are thinking. Granted if I was them I wouldn't want a beater, but I doubt it will ever fire again

 

Actually Fairplex had nothing to do with the choice of the replacement equipment.  That was agreed upon between the Railway and Locomotive Historical Society, Southern California Chapter who owns and operates the RailGiants Museum and Union Pacific.  It was also the sole decision of the RailGiants Museum to return 4014 to Union Pacific.  4014 will start the journey to Colton on the Saturday night.  4014 will be at the Covina Metro Link station at about 7:00am Sunday morning for viewing. 

I read 3015 was a Missouri Pacific engine originally. It was re painted and rebuilt several years ago.

The 3105 was indeed a MoPac unit, and was just repainted for the museum.

If they do try to run it, get FRESH fuel.  It would be best for the prime mover and the area's air.

 

Anyway, other than weather and geography, what is causing SLC's smog issues.  I did not think they had heavy industry?

The 3105 has been in UP colors for many years.  It was just put through the shops for a total repaint, again in UP colors,  before being presented to the museum.

That is open to debate and not appropriate here, but yes the geography doesn't help  but there are a few refineries in the SLC area, lots of wood burning stoves, the Kennecott open pit kicks up a lot of dust (when running)  and across the lake is MagCorp which is consistently one of the nations largest polluters. Add the weather caused inversion and we are gasping

 

I realize that the news media always have to use the term "alleges" or "allegedly", but having been a contract member of Steve Lee's UP Steam Crew, thru the end of 2010, and know every single one of the men that "departed" from 2011 thru early 2013, I can personally tell you that there is NO "allegedly" about what happened!

interesting. Heres the article.. http://www.wyomingnews.com/art...20local_12-28-13.txt

Just a quick fyi, the USN operators you want are the Nuclear propulsion guys.  Nuclear steam generators are basicaly fire tube boilers.  You have tubes inside a drum, the tubes carrying hot primary water, the steam generated in the secondary water in the drum. This is saturated steam, then run thru a series of seperators to take out as much entrained water as possible.  Shrink, swell, and boiler chemistry are all much the same as for any fire tube boiler.  

 

As Naval steam generators operate at 600 psi nominal, as opposed to circa 300 psi for most locomotives, the effects of shrink and swell are rather larger, and any throttle operator keeps a constant eye on SG level, as throttle variations when stationkeeping, and more especialy when entering and leaving port, are considerable.

Drydock,

 

Sorry but, still NOTHING like the instantaneous changing demands of a coal fired, nor oil fired, steam locomotive!

Really?  You've stood watch on a Virginia class plant?  Seen emergency manuvers on a 688?  I'm impressed!

OK, but how many boilers did you have? Plus, a steam locomotive load demand changes within SECONDS.

My kid was an engineer on an old LPD that was steam powered nun nuclear of course. The training he received encompassed Diesel generators working on the main engines HVAC plus much more. I told him to consider railroad as a career but he didn't think it payed enough. He works at a data center as a critical facility's maintenance engineer now. He could have easialy transferred his skills to a railroad and he would have even had some skill at working a steam plant. No it aint the same. UP Steam would have done well to get him though.

 

A Virgina class has 4 steam generators, 2 per engine room.  These 2 SGs feed a main engine of 38000 SHP, along with two Turbo generators.  I've seen 30 inches swell in just over 1 second, when going full astern.  The astern throttle is a single valve throttle, much like the steam dome throttles used by the Pennsy.  The ahead throttle block uses 9 poppets, much like the front end throttles of many locomotives. Spinning the throttle from stop to full ahead can be done in under 2 seconds, leading to a header pressure drop of nearly 300 psi.

 

The 688s react even faster, as you're feeding only one main engine with very large valves.  In addition, you have angles up to 30 degrees to account for.  

 

I've seen shrink and swell on both the Ohio Central 10 wheeler, and the Western Maryland Consolidation.  The range is narrower, and you have to worry about the crown sheet.  In an sg you neither want to uncover the tubes, nor foam the dryers, or you'll impingement damage the turbines.  But the premise of shrink and swell as well as the associated chemistry are very translatable.

 

The 4 SG units of the Nimitz class react even faster, but they're huge, with a great deal more leeway.  I've seen one of those make an instant 5" jump when firing a catupult.  Flight operations at full throttle can be nerve wracking.

 

The point being that no, they're not the same, but the data is transferable.

Ok so back to the 4014, is anyone going out to see it on display in Colton?

Since it has been "on display" in the Pomona Fair Grounds for some 50 years (complete with all her rods on), why bother?

That N&W Y6 tractive effort in simple reads between 166K and 170K.  In a controlled slip during a test, a peak spike of 190K was recorded ( and mis-quoted by Joe Collias as the rated T.E.)  Not too shabby for a chooch weighing 611K.  OTOH, you better have really decent track, with good surfacing to support those figures on an F.O.A. of less that 4.0, which N&W had.  She tops out at 5600 DBHP @ 25MPH. No other articulated could touch this machine for cost of operation, or power per pound of weight!   Allegheny is a terrific machine, but a total waste where it was used, until they ran north to Toledo.  On a fast freight with less than .3 - .4 % grade, I'll grab the H8...anywhere else, I'll be coming down with elephant fever !   HOOT-HOOT !

BB is a great machine, but neither fish nor fowl, King of the Road on Uncle Pete, 'til 1-30 started coming  in '58.

Well I'll be over at Colton every day since I work an interchange train between BNSF and the UP so I'll be able to get to it no matter where it's at in Colton. I'm guessing that it will be "displayed" in track 209, the same place they display the 844 and its train, because it's easy for the public to get to and away from any UP buildings or busy operations.

 

Trains Magazine will have their live webcam up from Saturday at 11pm to about 2pm on Sunday. You have to register on their website, but it is free.  

Quick being a stick in the mud. For the same reason we go see the 844 in the "same place" every time it comes to visit, its something different than the trains we normally see each day. Besides now it is somewhere else, not longer on a dead track in the a and we know its moving to a destination and a one day return. It's a new start and most people want to "Cheer" it on. Sorry you and Rich seem to be bored by it all.

Personally, I prefer viewing steam locomotives that are fired up, when "on display". If that makes me a "stick in the mud", well so be it.

As a retired Navy Senior Chief, from Submarines, who worked as Nuclear Operator, let me add my two cents on the steam discussion. BTW, not trying to hijack the thread.

ALL submarines and carriers are Steam powered. The heat source is nuclear though vice oil/coal. As we say in the program: Hot-Rock make steam, make roundy-roundy. We have steam turbines turning the screw(s) via reduction gears. The purpose of the reduction gears is that it allows a higher turbine speed for efficiency while allowing a lower speed for the screw to minimize noise. If you think about it, this was a huge problem for the old Turbine locos, they were inefficient at low speeds. This was due exhausting to atmospheric pressure (or small vaccuum) combined with inability to achieve what's called Ideal Blade Speed. All Naval steam plants are built to handle MASSIVE transients. A sub can be sitting "dead in the water" and then be up to full speed, to evade a torpedo, faster than you'd think (or I can say without breaking classification issues). Ditto with the carriers. 20 years of Torpedo evasion drills, and I'm still impressed how fast the plants can do it.

An aircraft carrier's catapults are steam powered, via reboilers, from the plant's steam generators. Those cat shots are also huge transients necessary to throw a 70klbs plane from 0-140kts in 150ft.

There are still a few conventionally fueled (oil) steam propulsion plants in the fleet. What we call "gator freighters" since they haul marines and their gear. Even in this case, the plants still vary their steam demand. The steam generators are at a high pressure in a standbye condition (low speed), then when necessary more steam comes out for more speed, but you must burn more fuel to maintain the pressure.

 

New Destroyers and other classes of ships are either gas turbine driving a generator (via reduction gears) or the screw (via reduction gears); or diesel electric, just like modern locomotives!

To see it out of the museum, beginning it's journey back towards restoration.  Heck I have seen it in Pomona also. 

 

Laidoffsick- Thanks didn't know the Cam would be up again.

Nice to see ya, Bubblehead!  I crewed "Targets" myself, though I got to ride a few 688s on post repair testing.  Saturated systems, pressure at the throttle block is pressure in the steam drum.  BIG transients!  

Possibly...  I'm going to be out there for family reasons so I hope to catch some photos and such...it will be a great time for sure. 

Have fun!!! Take some pictures so we can see it without those side rods and such....

All of the side rods must be kept in place on the 4014 so that the wheels do not come out of alignment.  The only items missing are the piston rods and the steam valve rods which were removed to prevent damage as 4014 is moved.  The UP Steam Crew did remove the side rods to clean and lubricate them, however they were all replaced before 4014 was moved out of the RailGiants Museum.

Thank you...I hope to get as many photos as I can.