UP 4014 Latest UP info added 1-31-14

Excellent, thank you for the information.  This will be a BIG event for sure.

from UP

 

some of us are not old enough to have seen steam on the rails and are excited.

Well, it still really isn't "steam on the rails" YET!!!

Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex.  People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.

Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985.  that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.

 

Steve Lee was asked that very question.  His answer is that a BB could only operate only on trackage in WY and UT.  That was then.  But 3985 can go to a lot more places than a BB.

 

BTW, does anybody know where a BB can go on the UP today under steam?

bigdodgetrain, Thanks for posting the video!!!!

According to Metrolink's Facebook page, 4014 will be stopped at the Covina Metrolink station for public viewing between 7:00am and 8:00am on January 26th. I'm planning to drive along Arrow Highway on the way home from the club the night before to see what they're up to.

I keep on hearing people saying the bigboy was the biggest steam loco ever made.at 132..?? its the heaviest for sure..the allegheny had the most HP..As for length is PRR S1 at 140 feet and with 84"big driving wheels..

 

The 4014 can go anywhere the 844 can go...the limiting factor being the boiler swing.  The tender is more of a limiting factor than the engine is.

The Allegheny had 7000 boiler hp but sorry not the tractive effort.  That is what pulls trains not boiler hp.  The dm& ir had 140,000 lbs pulling power and big boy had 135,000 but the Allegheny had a little over 100,000 and was so hard on track it went a wooping 20 mph to keep track damage to a minimum.  The c&0 also sued lima for lying about weight on drivers.  It was not a success.  It is not even a good comparison for the big boy.  Lets compare successful engines.  As Gene Huddleston say in his book on the 2-6-6-6 after all the information was out "you decide if the c&0 got its moneys worth out of the engine.   Their 2-10-4 was their superior engine and it is compared in the same book. 

There were no other 4-8-8-4 engines made so big boy wins there.

Meh........ my money would be on a y6b with its modest 170,000lbs of tractive effort.... but thats for another thread.

You got that right!

It only gets to 163,000 and that is the simple mode and could not supply enough steam to go very fast.  Big boy is the only  4-8-8-4 and that is the biggest wheel arrangement of a steamer that could operate at 70 mph y6b maybe but in compound mode only and then tractive effort is way down.

Only?...Mmmhmm. 

 

UP's 4-8-8-4's would produce higher speeds, and could develop higher HP at higher speeds but they didn't have the starting drawbar pull of a 2100. The thing to remember is that these Y's had boilers the size of a big 4-8-4, and with compound operation it allowed them to squeeze that kind of performance out of it.  The 4000's had a humongous boiler with an appetite to match.  The higher speed is great but you need to start the train first.

  The real point is that each was designed to do a specific job for it's respective road and both performed admirably in that capacity.  

Hold on just a minute there, Bucko.  All tractive effort does is start the train. The infamous Erie Triplex had monstrous amounts of tractive effort, but didn't have enough HORSEPOWER roll the train faster than about 10 mph or it would run out of steam.

 

It is HORSEPOWER that gets you over the road at speed. And the Lima-Built C&O Allegheny produced 7,498 DRAWBAR HORSEPOWER, far more than the Big Boy. That's REAL Horsepower, at the coupler, as measured by a dynamometer car behind the tender, not a calculated number.

hello OGR Webmaster and guys...........

 

It would be even LESS than 7,498 drawbar horsepower if measured BEHIND the tender coupler thus guessing about 7,000 H.P. @ tender coupler.  Its the tender coupler that is coupled to the freight cars behind so the horsepower should be measured there and could be called "net drawbar horsepower"

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

id thought id read some where its was 8000hp? other saying 6200 at the draw bar.. the PRR Q2 were 7987hp..measurements on the S1 and bigboy..bigboy..11'wide and 16' 2 1/2"high and 132'long...S1 10'7"wide and 16' 6"high and 140' 2 1/4"..Q2 11'4"wide and 16'5.5"high and 124 long.....If anyone can fill in the C&O alleghenys measurments..I couldnt find them..as for the largest steam loco ever built is the S1,but for production built bigboy is..model train mag there a post debaiting bigboy vs the allegheny..http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/34200/436684.aspx

We apparently have a few folks that have been doing some "book learning", with no understanding of the REAL steam locomotive work environment, nor the physics involved.

 

1) The famous C&O H-8 was definitely NOT "unsuccessful"! Maybe the C&O never properly utilized the Lima Super Power 2-6-6-6 design to their fullest capabilities, instead of "just hauling coal".

 

2) The various eastern coal roads, i.e. C&O, B&O, and N&W for example, all had EXCELLENT supplies of VERY HIGH BTU coal as fuel. Thus their furnace systems were properly designed FOR THAT FUEL! By comparison, the "poor Union Pacific" was relegated to burning southern Wyoming Hanna Coal, and thus need MUCH larger fireboxes and furnace system designs, on order to burn lower BTU coal. Thus, the 4000 class locomotives truly excelled at their DESIGNED service assignments, while burning that southern Wyoming fuel. As another comparison, look what the poor Northern Pacific had to burn, i.e. Montana Lignite! 

 

3) Trying to compare various wheel arrangements, total locomotive weights, and total locomotive lengths add nothing to a discussion of individual steam locomotive performance.

 

 

....... which brings us back to the y6b which could pull just as well albeit at lower speeds but it weighed 100,000 lbs less than the allegheny and bigboy....

 

I'm gonna pop some popcorn now.

with extra butter of course !!!

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

3985 is far from anti climatic. The Challengers are the steam engine that represents UP's peak of the steam age better then any other engine. The Big Boys were only used in Utah and Wyoming pretty much. Challengers were used system wide. The restoration of 3985 also was not really started by Lee is was started by a group of employees before Lee was manager of the historical fleet. There are 6-7 Big Boys left only 2 Challengers. Personally I think the 3985 is still the better choice. Big Boy makes a nice wow factor but in the end I bet they use it rarely. I think its much sadder 3985 gets neglected since the new manager came around.

This is the write up from Union Pacific's Community Ties about the move. 

Thanks for the update.  The 26th is right around the corner.

 

I hope those of you going will post pictures of this great event.  Wish I could see it firsthand.

Those doing photography will need to be very experienced at NIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY, since this whole move should be COMPLETED by sunrise on Sunday morning, the 26th.

I have seen this quote "There are several crews (in Colton) that have had experience when steam was the primary mode that powered these trains," said Rod Doerr, superintendent - Los Angeles Service Unit. "

 

Were they 10 years old when UP hired them?

Night Photo.. got it covered  (And these were even shot on film)

 

Now there is a manager that has been smoking the good stuff!

 

Lets do the math on that statement:

 

1) The last steam operations on the UP were out of Cheyenne, WY in something like 1958? So the Los Angeles area would have been out of main line steam locomotives in, what no later than 1956/1957?

 

2) A "steam qualified" promoted Engineer, should have been roughly in his 40s, during the mid 1950s, probably able to hold an Extra Board spot. That would make is age TODAY, at least 995 to 98 YEARS OLD!!! Even allowing for the possibility that the man was in his 30s, during the mid-1950s, would still put him well past 80 YEARS OLD today!

 

3) Say the man was a Fireman in the mid-1950s, and he was in his 20s. That would STILL make him well past 70 YEARS OLD today!

 

 

Now, does that Superintendent honestly believe that the Union Pacific STILL has 70+ to 80+, to 90+ year old men employed? What with the Railroad Retirement policy change, some 8 to 10 years ago, allowing FULL retirement benefits at 60 years of age, with 30+ years of service, why would ANY man well over 70 years old STILL BE WORKING (even if the railroad allowed it)? 

 

 

Ah, but one of the UP's auxiliary tenders carries water drawn from the fountain of youth don'tchaknow...

 

Rusty

I guess the manager in LA was breathing too much of the polluted air in the Basin!

Must have been a long time ago that you were in the LA Basin, as the last few years that I have been there the "pollution" sure wasn't THAT bad.

I thought the same thing when I read the article.  There's no way that could happen....By the way, I love the first picture of 844.

 

HOTWATER:  I'm with you: My first thought was "how old would those guys be now?"  The math wasn't adding up!

 

I am curious, how does any RR find mechanics (with steam engine knowledge) and engineers to operate any steam engine?  I watched a clip on youtube of 3985's engineer and was amazed.  He made it look easy!  Steam engines haven't been used forever, so where /how do they train people?

 

Anyway, look forward to the pictures!

The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.

Sorry, but Navy steam boiler operations are not even remotely close to a steam locomotive. Navy boilers really aren't that much different than stationary boilers in electrical power plants, since the load doesn't vary all that much, plus they are usually very high pressure water tube boilers. Steam locomotives have fire tube boilers in order to withstand the numerous, and drastic loading changes.

I know right?...How ridiculous of a statement is that for the UP to make...

Better then nothing. There are alot of x navy guys working for UP. The training navy engineers get dose fit in with the railroad.

 

You may be right, but how many are there on the Steam Crew?

Not enough. The current steam crew only seems to have big goals. Hope what there doing ends up being a good thing. I personally would have preferd they just kept  the equipment they have maintained. I'm looking forward to seeing the Big boy and all but I like 3985 just fine.

 

In reality, the current manager can not maintain what he already had, i.e. the 3985 AND 844, let alone rebuild/overhaul the 4014! Anyone taking any bets that the 844 will NOT operate during 2014?