Vintage (1960s) HO Lionel Engine Help

First: Try hooking power directly to the motor.  That might eliminate the motor as a problem.

Second: The wheels appear to be in need of a serious cleaning and probably the contact wiper also.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

First: Try hooking power directly to the motor.  That might eliminate the motor as a problem.

Second: The wheels appear to be in need of a serious cleaning and probably the contact wiper also.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty...Yeah I doubt the wheels have ever been cleaned...good call!

OK, so I took your advice and here are the videos to prove it.   You can see just the motor runs steady and fine although a little noisy.  With the drive gear connected...it hesitates and doesn't really like it!

I am assuming the motor is fine and something is binding the drive gear?

Thanks for your help so far.

An educated guess is in the smoke unit piston in the cylinder is causing the problem. Either the casting has deformed with age, the piston cylinder has expanded, or the old smoke fluid that has seeped down there and gunked up like tar over the years. Disconnect the drive rod with the piston and see how it runs then. Don't open the motor, permanent damage will result.

The next move for me would be to remove all the side rods and see if the motor drives the geared driver OK.  If one of the side rods is worn, it could be a cause of binding.  Also follow up on Chuck's suggestion.

Rusty

Be sure to get a drop of oil on each end of the motor shaft. And the drive wheel axles.

All great ideas...unfortunately, I have run into a snag...motor runs good by itself, but as soon as I put install it and tighten the screw it now shorts out.  It looks like it has some sort of shim to keep the engine from touching the frame (see picture), but it is touching somewhere and shorting out.  I have no idea where these were before...but the way it was running before I almost think the motor was bouncing and shorting out before.  The shims don't look original and don't seem thick enough to do the job.  Any ideas on what to put under the engine to insulate it from the frame?  Thanks again!

The motor needs to be grounded to the frame to operate. The shims are not factory. If the motor is shorting out grounded to the frame, something is not right.

@Chuck Sartor  Thanks Chuck...I did some more investigating and I think the shims go in the back of the motor.  Since it was remotored back in the 90's, no idea if this was the correct motor or not...but I think this levels it a little.  While I was moving the engine around a wire broke a solder joint from the motor to the center solder joint "junction".  Just for fun, I powered it and the motor worked again.  The engine is running...seems to run better in reverse than forward, but I can work with that.  Now the headlight isn't working.

I may rewire everything eventually.  Thoughts? 

Here is a picture of the wire that broke and where it was attached when it broke.  Thanks guys!

Does anyone have any idea, of what OHM smoke resistor should be in these Old Lionel HO locomotives.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

An educated guess is in the smoke unit piston in the cylinder is causing the problem. Either the casting has deformed with age, the piston cylinder has expanded, or the old smoke fluid that has seeped down there and gunked up like tar over the years. Disconnect the drive rod with the piston and see how it runs then. Don't open the motor, permanent damage will result.

Hi Chuck, why can't you open the motor? what if brushes and springs need replacing? I had to replace springs a few years back and cleaned, motor runs pretty good.

Thanks Mark

You can replace the brushes and springs as long as the armature is not removed. The reason is on the type of magnets Lionel used as soon as the magnetic flux between the magnet poles is broken, the magnet looses about 40% of it's power. When reassembled the motor will run faster, Have less torque, and overheat. The magnet in the motor was magnetized after being assembled. In the '60's Lionel has a service tool available to repairmen to re-magnatize the assembled motor. Never use pulse power with these motors.

@Secarider  I assume you have an old Lionel HO Steam engine?  Can you show me how it is wired.  I know mine is wrong.

I had an epiphany moment.  The wire that came loose was shorting out somehow.  The reason the engine is working is because I just was wiring the leads (that went to the whistling tender) that are connected to each side of the motor.  By doing that I am bypassing how it works in reality.  It does not work on the track.  Still shorts out.  So I would like to rewire it.

Can someone show me or explain to me how this is supposed to be wired?  Attached are pics how it is currently wired.

On the front of the engine there are 3 wires...one to the light, and 2 to the smokestack--2 of those wires go to the wheel pickups--1 goes to the right side of the motor.  The left side of the motor came loose, but was connected to the pickups junction. I am assuming, the wire without insulation is the ground wire...it goes from the right side of the motor to the smokestack.  Does that all seem correct? 

Also, would I be better off replacing this motor with a can motor of some sort and if so...which one?  Thanks guys...appreciate all the help!!

I got it working...details to follow.

OK, I never really worked on engines before.  I'd build freight kits and such, but never engines.  So be kind when you read the newbie mistakes I made.   When I was younger I didn't have the confidence to take engines apart...as I have gotten older...not so much.  Not much worse can happen to it than it not running...so I'll try things, plus this internet thing is pretty fantastic for DIY/repair projects.

So I tried a few things today to no avail...until I googled wiring for DC motors.  I found a video of someone building a Bowser HO steam Kit.  I watched some of it and as I was watching...he mentioned the insulated wheels!  DOH...When I took it apart yesterday to clean and lube things, I didn't put the insulated wheels back on the correct side...so I took it apart again and put all 3 insulated wheels on the same side...still didn't work...because I had them on the wrong side again!

Anyway, I am happy to say, I got it running.  I still need to solder that broken wire back on...then will put the shell on and take it for a real spin and get a video to share!  So looking forward to seeing her pull again!

Some info.

Thanks Chuck that is awesome!  I greatly appreciate it.

OK, here is the main event.  Could still run smoother, but after at least 30 years this is the first time she has run.  I think she looks great and I LOVE it.  I still may put a can motor in it one day, but I am going to enjoy this for a while.  Thanks for everyone's help, I appreciate it  more than you can know.