We have lost more than just the LHS as a source for Trains.

Well put, I think that I agree with everything you said.  The mechanisms that we have now may allow us to have better equipment but we lose the social aspect of talking with others and handling prospective purchases.

You just described perfectly what's wrong with this country.  Nobody wants to work anymore.  Try getting something repaired or built around here is almost impossible. I needed brick mold replaced around a door. Finally found someone to do it. I had to furnish all materials for the job. Took about 3hrs.

Cost me $400.00 and I had to go back and re caulk it.  Seemed high to me  as I helped when needed  but at least it's done.

Hi Mainline Steam- A guy that can work with his hands can make good money.. in the trades...more so than those with a  piece of paper with a degree. Our plumber of  40 years  recently offered to hire an apprentice and pay for the kids schooling  explaining to him that the potential was $120,000/yr . The kid lasted 4 months and said the work was "too hard". I don't care what you do as long as it is 1) legal 2) you are passionate about what you do 3) have integrity. We need excellence and passion in the workforce in every field. We have "dumbed down" our posterity with techy as a culture but lost the ability to be handy and think and solve problems  and be creative...and live within our means.

You would be amazed how many young men don't know how to use tools and young women don't know how to do the basic household skills i.e cooking but "want to eat out" all the time.  We have morphed in to a "push button" society interested  in immediate answers, gratification and robotic responses. The new generation uses their thumbs-but what else can they do with their hands and head?

Being handy is intertwined with Toy Train Hobby... and will always be so!

You nailed it when you said- "I am concerned where we are headed. The hobbies and skills we develop as kids influence the path we pursue in life". / " but in the past it just developed naturally in many of us when we "played" as kids." There is no substitute for hands on experience.

We have a beautiful young grand daughter getting married this Saturday. The young man she has chosen is nice, handsome, they care for each other deeply, has a full ride presidential scholarship in math. They are a good match and have  our blessing for the future.

As the Grandpa  I wanted to ask- Is this guy handy?

The past may be simpler but that doesn't mean that the past was better.  I could change the brushes on an old Lionel motor to make the engine run better.  I can't repair a circuit board or a can motor in a modern engine.  I need to replace the board or the motor if they fail.  

However, my modern engines with circuit boards and can motors run much better and are much more fun for me than the the older engines.  The work required to design a circuit board and program it can't be done without a special education.      High tech tools are required to build the board.  Yes, our society isn't as hands on as in the past but I think that the tradeoff is worth it.  NH Joe

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!

I have a different perspective.  During training I often worked 120 + hours per week, sometimes 48 hour shifts with no or little sleep.  No pay during medical school (tuition was a lot lower then) and minimal during residency.  Nowadays there's an 80 hour work limit for housestaff training.  I'm sure that makes more sense and gives us physicians with more energy, compassion and judgement.  Back then, pretty much all the patients with acute leukemia died.  Now almost all of the younger patients survive.  So the world is a better place. We have lower levels of hunger, unmet medical needs, people living in substandard housing.  Most folks do not have college degrees but unemployment is at an all time low.  Some things don't change.  There will always be criminals, those who are mentally ill, and those who just don't want to work.  But overall the world is a much better place for most people (particularly if you are a woman, person of color, or an immigrant).  This is especially  true in the USA and similar societies.  I don't worry that I won't be able to get my car or furnace repaired.  It's never been a problem. And yes, I can do minor plumbing, electrical etc. repairs, but I don't bother.

As an old guy I miss some things.  There used to be a half dozen model airplane magazines in the USA. Now there are two.  I miss Model Builder, Radio Control Modeler, Flying Models, American Aircraft Modeler. I miss Cox engines.  Oh well.

Get off my lawn too .

It seems that in this hobby for the past few decades we've moved to all RTR  models.  I'm not complaining about the move but it makes me think that most modelers don't want to "get their hands dirty. "When I started this hobby I was also in HO  scale and the Athearn blue box was a way for me to build up my collection.  All I had to do was get out a screwdriver and put on the trucks,  add a drop of glue for the brake wheel and then drop the body on the frame.  How hard is that today? I've heard manufacturers complain that an rtr car has better quality control and there's no loss of parts in the kit box. Well,  IKEA  has been selling kits for 60+ years and nobody has complained about a lack of parts.

I'm in my late 60s and am learning how to use an airbrush for the first time.  I've never really picked up a paintbrush before except to slap paint on the walls of my house. 

If you're happy with rtr,  fine.  But for a group of us modelers we take a little more pride in saying "I built or modified that".

@GrandpaChooChoo posted:

We have a beautiful young grand daughter getting married this Saturday. The young man she has chosen is nice, handsome, they care for each other deeply, has a full ride presidential scholarship in math. They are a good match and have  our blessing for the future.

As the Grandpa  I wanted to ask- Is this guy handy?

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!" - Red Green

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

I am more along the thoughts of Landsteiner (the idea that working residents and interns 120 hour weeks as a good idea always mystified me, and the resistance of older doctors who say "I had to do it". Knowing what long hours do to people like that from personal experience (thankfully not as a doctor), it was idiotic then and it is idiotic today....

I think a lot of this is us older or now getting older folks idealizing what we had. I am handy, I grew up working on cars with my dad, but want to know something? First of all, you could work on cars back then, they were stone age technology.  The other thing was they were quite frankly junk compared to todays cars, they broke down a lot more often, they died by the time you made your last payment and required all kinds of crazy things (like in cold weather sticking a plastic comb to open the automatic choke to try and start the car). The reality is that modern cars last longer and require a lot less maintenance, pure and simple, and while I would love to have an old car to restore, I don't miss doing it to keep the car going, I have a lot of other things I would rather do.

And I dispute the notion that 'no one wants to work', and that is why we don't see train stuff at the 5 and dime. The reason we don't see train stuff at the 5 and dime is because sales have gone online.  Sure, there are kids who train as a plumber and say "this isn't for me", want to know something? Happened in the good old days to. My uncles had a construction firm, and they had people who didn't work out, said it was too hard and dirty..others came on and made their whole career there. My son is a young professional classical musician in a chamber group, and they when not travelling all over the place, hustling here and there to perform, they rehearse 7 days a week 6 or 7 hours a day with everything typically.  There are young people with a passion, there is a young couple my wife follows on you tube (they are both engineers) who are fixing up an old farmhouse themselves. The husband has a new channel where he inherited a bunch of shop equipment from his grandfather, industrial milling equipment, lathes, etc, and is restoring the equipment (it is like 30 years old) and you can just see his enthusiasm for it. Just watching him move this stuff (this isn't Lowes level equipment, stuff weighs a couple of tons each).

Of course kids are different, I am in my late 50's and I heard how our childhood was decrepit compared to my parents generation. We had TV, my parents didn't, we had access to things they wouldn't, especially growing up in the depression. We had more organized activities than my parents (and kids today, well, even more so). Things change, and change usually is for the good, and in the process you often lose things that are regrettable. BTW there are a ton of young people who get into 'the old things', like the young guy with the shop equipment, you would be amazed if you look around (you tube is proof of that).

Basically the answer is the world changes all the time, and as I grow older I realize how much has changed. Yet some fundamental things don't, kids have imaginations, young people grow up and end up working, doing a variety of things and the reality is we likely don't see it.

And getting back to trains, the quality of what we have today (even with grumbling about 'crap') is a lot better than it was back then. RTR is predominant because the quality is there and quite honestly the old kits couldn't touch the quality of much of the RTR stuff. Back then it was a necessity, you made grass out of dyed sawdust and ground up foam, you don't need to today. I enjoy scratch building, taking a bunch of stuff I had on hand and making it into something as special as I could (I had a model of grand central terminal in NYC I built with cardboard, bits of wood I had, some of the facade work was done with carved plaster of paris or joint compound) but I also am happy that I can choose to do that and buy what I need. I think for a lot of people time is the issue, and having RTR buildings and cars and engines saves that time for the things they like to do, like operate the trains.

It would take an awful lot of dimes at the 5 and 10 to buy an ABA set of 3rd Rail Alco PA’s, or the new Legacy Dreyfuss. Things change constantly—that is the way of the world.

The model train hobby has never been perfect, but the last thirty years have seen an amazing variety of product, in all of the popular scales. I see a bright future. Things like 3D printing will change and shape the hobby in ways we can’t begin to fathom right now.

Call me an optimist.

Jeff C

It's very convenient to place blame for everything.   Also important to note is that it's very easy to say "It's simple.  All you needed to do was <fill in blank>.

Here, it's easy to blame the youngsters.  Unfortunately that's the quickest way to scare them off.  They are not the problem.  If they are you can blame yourself for bringing them into the world and leaving them unprepared for it.

In other threads it's easy to blame China for everything.  What happened to taking responsibility, as a marketer, for the order you placed with the Chinese?  You had other options.

In another, particularly within our hobby, it's easy to blame Lionel.  If your 90% sure you're going to be disappointed with what you receive after seeing it in the new catalog DON'T order it.  And most importantly, don't come here and complain, under the guise of doing your civic duty to inform the rest of us what happened, after you receive it.

It's time to stop with the "easy" and just recognize that most everything is much more complex than we initially believe.  Placing blame doesn't do squat toward fixing a problem.  Only action does.

Mike

Jim, NOT everyone HAS to got College! My postal plant is filled with people with High school diplomas and making a good salary with benefits. For the trades, one must think "outside the box" and be mentally strong enough to not follow "the Sheeple of their peers".

Hey Grandpa Choochoo...

We have a beautiful young grand daughter getting married this Saturday. The young man she has chosen is nice, handsome, they care for each other deeply, has a full ride presidential scholarship in math. They are a good match and have  our blessing for the future.

As the Grandpa  I wanted to ask- Is this guy handy?

Wanna bet he's not so much... Mortimer?

https://youtu.be/wjkdynBFHuQ

I am in my late seventies, but I do recall the same complaints about "these kids today" when I was young from the last generation.

Want proof?

Bye Bye Birdie The musical from 1960 influenced by Elvis Presley's army draft in 1957.

Song:  "Kids"

Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today
Kids, who can understand anything they say?
Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers
And while we're on the subject

Kids, you can talk and talk till your face is blue
Kids, but they still do just what they want to do
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?

John

I fortunately don't have to yell at kids to get off my lawn.  I sold the house and live in an apartment now.  My voice was getting too old and feeble scare them, so "the joy had departed".  LOL

Reading some of the comments, I am not sure if people were responding to me or others.

To clarify I Do NOT think everyone should go to 4 years or more of college, but SOME definitely should.  From what I have observed, I think there has been too much of a push that way, without considering the alternatives.

I don't blame "kids", I do question what and how things are presented to them today.

I PERSONALLY think by being so connected to the electronic device we carry in our hands (virtual world) we have disconnected from the real world around us.

I do understand time marches and MANY things are better now than in the past but Not Everything.

I think that physical activity and labor are good.

And Lastly my life has embraced.

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!" - Red Green

You gotta play to your strengths.

BTW Thank you for all the likes and comments.  I like the fact that this forum allows these discussions.

See some of you at Trainstock tomorrow, I can't wait!

Without delving into all the minutiae of all the points brought up:

We need to be careful when saying kids just aren't into hobbies anymore, basing it on just the overall train hobby.

Around my area which is west of the Mississippi, the following shops that cater to these are always full, especially on weekends, with kids and their parents:

R/C Hobbies, especially on-road and off-road racing.   We're talking vehicles you build, and then modify to your liking.  Not the $65 off the shelf Toy R Us C-Cell powered things.    For a decent basic setup, the entry cost pushes upwards of $500.  Many of the shop also have a track, either outdoor or indoors.  It's a lot of fun.    The kids in this hobby learn a lot of things as they build, race, analyze, and so forth.

Robotics is a huge up n comer:Kinex, RokNBok, and so forth. A couple hobby shops near me have converted entire sections to this area.

Science Clubs devoted to 'Robot Wars' is very popular.

As a natural part of this generation of kids, coding and software design is big.  I am beginning to see clubs setup around this.

All of the above involve healthy socialization.

The kids are alright

Last: The number one demographic of kid 13-19 playing video game whether on an OS device or a PlayStation, are athletes.  Not exactly a sedentary bunch.

FYI: I just turned 60, and in addition to trains, I also play video games

There are kids into hobbies these days. At the club I am a member of we have so many teenagers running trains on Saturdays that we've instituted an "adult swim" time to allow the grown ups to run their trains!

Stuart