ZWL vs. Celebration Series ZW + Bricks

I don't think any additional complexity is added with the ZW-L, other than perhaps a few operating nuances.  The biggest thing is you need a beefier table to hold that sucker up!

You don't say how many bricks you use with the ZW-C, but if you max it out with 4 and need the full 720 watts at any point, the ZW-L will not quite match it since it was limited to 620 total watts (as opposed to original marketing of 720 years ago) to meet safety standards.

The one huge improvement for your described use is that the inner handles won't come up at full voltage when you address them with a remote.  (As you know, the ZW-C is designed so you need to dial them down if you have conventional trains running)

-Dave

Thanks John and Dave --very helpful!  In answer to Dave's question, I use 3, 135W bricks, the original, lower wattage,  one brick for each mainline. The accessories are powered independently by a refurbished postwar ZW.

I switched from using the Brick ZW to a ZWL and have been very happy. Only down side is having to dial up power to the accessories since I use B and C for accessory power. Not really an issue, but just different. Being able to reset the power from the remote is great and having the 200 speed steps to run conventional is amazing. Everything just seems to run better for met now, from tinplate to Legacy. I also got tire of going under my layout to reset bricks so I am very happy that I switched.

Thanks Jeff,

The fact that you much prefer the ZWL is very helpful.  Additionally, I was hoping that the conventional trains would run more smoothly.  Finally, like you, I am also tired of resetting the bricks under my layout.  Thanks for the info!

Have my W-L for over 2 yrs. No issues. Operate Legacy and sometimes conventional .Very fast circuit breaker action and very easy reset with cab2. You'll really like the ease of use!

The ZWL is one great item.  The modern operators love it.  The old ZW guys can now replace the old transformers with a look alike with some real power.   The old ZW transformer is still good for lighting.

George,

That sounds very helpful, since I was concerned about ease of use, and do have some derailments at switches where the circuit breakers will prove helpful -- especially above the table!

Marty,

That is a great, encouraging endorsement.  I loved my celebration series ZW 15 years or so ago, but resetting the circuit breakers seemed easier then!

Dennis, the bricks were great.  Not so great the control (ZW) box.  The plastic bracket that held the control pot always went bad.  Lionel did make a metal replacement.  I have one (transformer) left with the metal brackets and 4 180 bricks.  It is used for lighting only.  Time will show the ZWL the best ever from Lionel.

Mike Reagan had a lot of input on building the ZWL.  Like everything he does, it is done right.

Marty,

there were 2 brackets that went bad. The horizontal bracket that held the pot bracket.

The first being replaced by "metal". The second one (pot bracket) that is not currently available via any parts source.

I was going to have one of my contractor in the city look into reproducing this pot bracket in a non-plastic form. It's so silly, LIonel never changed the pot brackett to metal. 

Dave,

a small issue that has nothing to do with the op's question...I believe that manufacturers now must advertise or label devices with the maximum power rating that the device will draw from the house current. This is done for safety reasons to prevent one from overloading a circuit.

The point is that the 620 watts that the ZWL is labeled for is the not the total output rating.

I never have found a straight answer from Mike R. on the output of the ZWL. Also, the dynamic power management internally on the ZWL further adds to the mystery.

Has anyone?

Marty,  The second bracket was never made as a replacement part.  The boss where the screw head sat would crack, and this still allowed the gears to skip.  I added the metal bracket, but had to manufacture a metal shim to hold pressure on the top piece.  Still have to move that handle slowly.  If rapidly moved it will ride up and skip a gear.  G

Great info.  Wild Bill's did have to make the repair you describe to my controller under warranty.  Glad to hear you love your ZW-L,  Fortunately I built my transformer table 20+ years ago "rock solid" with extra length and depth.  Based on the great advice and assistance from you and the other Forum members, I'll plan to purchase a ZW-L from WB's.  My "train buddy" son will love the upgrade from his Z-1000 to my Celebration Series ZW's and bricks!!!  I may try a Z-1000 for my lighting and accessories in place of the ZW to make even more room on the transformer table.  Thanks again!

George, several years have passed from when I rebuilt my unit.  I also did one for Gerry Morlitz.  I opened the unit up and my recolection was off and I wanted to confirm what was replaced and what I reported on.  Here is a photo of the bracket that was done in metal.  It sits under the volume pot holder.  The plastic bracket would crack and not let the pot gears engage properly.  This is a photo of the plastic unit that was replaced.

Marty, are those metal brackets still available?

Marty, Correct.  On mine that bracket was good, but as Shawn states the other bracket is also prone to cracking. It holds the pot too.  The mold had insufficient plastic around the screw post so it also could crack easily.  G

John,  I just spoke with Mike and he stated  Lionel had a man named Joe Mania do them for Lionel on a CNC machine.

FYI-Lionel still has them and it is part number 610-2859-065.

Thanks Marty, I'll add it to my next Lionel order.  I have one of those with the plastic bracket, might as well fix it while they're available.

John, order it.  I put in an order for some more to add to what I have.  If you do not get one, I can cover you.  Those transformers with bricks are great layout lighting sources.

I have the Celebration series ZW and I also have the ZW-L.  The power fold back, circuit protection, and lit amp/voltage gauges are great upgrades in the ZW-L.  Resetting a tripped channel via the remote is a great feature as well.  Conventional locs run better  with it too.  You will be happy you upgraded.

Do you think Lionel replaced this at the factory at some point in the ZW-C's production.  I just opened mine the other day for the new layout and decided to take the cover off and look and mine already has the metal brackets in it.  Was it a certain batch that had the plastic brackets?

Hard to say, but mine is the PWC model, and it has a plastic bracket.

And a custom fitted back brace to get the ZW-L into the trunk, down the basement stairs, and onto the transformer table... 

Having accomplished that:

1. The wiring was a breeze, and the set-up was straight forward so far;

2.  I've only run conventional up to this point.  All three mainlines ran flawlessly.  As predicted, a post war Lionel steamer and a Williams Seaboard Switcher ran much more smoothly in conventional mode with the ZW-L.  A Lionel NH Electric with TMCC also ran well in conventional.

3.  I look forward to running in command mode!  

Thanks again to each of you.

This is great info. I am seriously thinking of getting a ZW-L too. My MTH Z-4000 shuts down at 9.5 amps indicted on its meter at 15 VAC while powering up 9 MTH PS2 (EDITED: ORIGNALLY I thought I had 5 enignes, but I had 9. now at 7 MTH locos is runs ok at 5.6amps, 18VAC) Diesel locos and when I pushed the horn button. This is one channel only, the other channel was not loaded. I think that is not meeting MTH specs (400 watts?) but I could be wrong. I need to do some more testing....

I was thinking to sell the Z-4000 to fund the ZW-L if I can find a good price! any one know what's the best price and where?...Cheers!

The 400 watts of the Z4000 is NOT available from one handle.

At the very least, it's split across the 2 handles.  The 400 watts also may include the power available from the 2 fixed voltage accessory terminals, I forget the specifics there. (if so, then the 400/2 = 200 goes down even more due to the amount of power available at the constant voltage outputs)

I believe nominally you can expect the same 180 watt max available from a single output on either the Z4000 or the ZW-L.  (The ZW-L will not deliver more than 180 watts to a single output either)

-Dave

{edited to strikeout my incorrect memory on the 2 fixed voltage outputs based on Marty's correction}

Dave, the 400 does not include the 10v and 14v outputs.

I did not mean to change the topic. I will start a new thread about the Z-4000.

Nevertheless, I am looking for a ZW-L for a good price, who has them please?

The lower plastic mounting bracket was used on the posy war celebration series

ZW-C. The later ZWC with the 190 Powerhouses had the metal bracket.

The only gripe I have about the ZW-L is that it is difficult to carry once out of the box. I know it would detract from its great looks but a couple of carry handles would make it easier to handle.

George,

Great idea.  I suspect Lionel wanted a mirror image of the ZW as far as possible, although much larger.  With the amp and volt meters attached to the top that image has already been altered, so handles would be great.

Sam E., 

I am very pleased that I made the switch, although having another use for the C/S ZW made the decision easier.  I'll be glad to get the bricks, power master, cables and 5 cords and plugs off of the special purpose shelf that I built below and behind my transformer table.   I think I'll put a small bar there....Just kidding!

Kidding???? Mini bar is a great idea, gives you the excuse to have a drink every time you reach down there and the wife can't see it....

Hi John, can you tell me what are these nuances? I want to know before I buy to make sure I can live with them. I know nothing is perfect for everyone and will most likely get it any way.... Thx..

The one that I know of is handles 3 & 4 start at zero, with the ZW-C they will come back to their setting.  This means you have to bring them back to the proper level if you run accessories from those outputs.

Gentlemen,

   Still not sold on the ZW-C with the bricks never liked it, love the ZW-L but not the cost,

I have more than a couple old ZW's that help run my layout, with the 2 Z4K's.  Some time I will pick up a used ZW-L at a reasonable cost to add to my layout out.  I like the ZW-L programmable technology, and the additional power.

PCRR/Dave