i made a joke on facebook about how time moves too slow approaching catalog day and some dude said its gonna be an abbreviated catalog with high prices is it always smaller for vol 2?
i just hope there's an emphasis on traditional stuff
The last couple of years the Volume 2 catalogs have had a good amount of trains in them pretty equal to the Volume 1’s. I remember for awhile the Volume 2’s always seemed to be thinner in size, but given how they’ve been recently it’ll probably be a good size again. The high prices don’t change unfortunately, lol
Ugh, rumors, make you go nuts. About catalog leaks, it is you just have to know where to look. Remember, if the catalogs have been sent out, some dealers do keep them under lock and key, others may not be so much. Was it when the Clown Challenger was in there it wound up being on Ebay(the catalog I mean) for sale? There have always been leaks here and there though, was it the one time some where posted in one of the topics here before the catalog went live, like a day before or something? Topic got closed(IIRC).
I would imagine that Lionel did manage to pick up some of the MTH Tooling, that which they were willing to let go. With that though, I do hope that whatever tooling they did get they manage to produce some good quality stuff(right colors and all you know).
Hopefully whatever news is coming is great news, and not just good news. I doubt it will be something about prices coming down a bit, lol, like that would ever happen. Maybe they finally got someone to do the catalog with the small enticing stuff in the front to lead to the big expensive stuff in the back for a change? I say that because my dealer Tony is always saying about how they scare parents by showing of the stuff that would be a mortgage payment right away to dissuade parents from looking at the rest of the catalog.
Regardless of all the speculation, maybe this will be a good Friday coming up for mostly everyone. Maybe @MartyE will get more Star Trek stuff in the catalog, get more Lionchief stuff(whatever version people have been craving), the old couplers that they shouldn't have changed on almost all the rolling stock, more Milk Cars, an assortment of steam locomotives that should be produced like the K5 Pacific's I hear anytime there is talk about "Another K4", a scale Gordon(I had to put that one there as I know Ryan has been asked about that almost every time he is talking about Thomas), a Fastrack turntable(I think someone has asked about that, a few people anyway), maybe some of the older buildings that they have made in the past like the Sanding Tower, Coaling Tower or the like. We'll know in a couple of days, that is for sure.
Hopefully @CAPPilot gets his wish on the T-1 PRR Duplex(forget which one he said). When I first saw these engines I didn't appreciate them as much as I do now. They have an interesting character that I guess is other worldly. Must be the design. I know that I want one of those and an S2 Turbine(updated tender please). I know that the postwar S2 has been in my life all my life from my Uncle running his, and I want a full scale one with a real coal load. They should have done that on the last one, but oh well. I'm off to bed. Night.
With all of this talk about Lionel cataloging MTH tooling I thought I’d add another perspective. As exciting as Decapods, Dreyfuss, Triplexs, climaxes, etc with legacy is… that is not a good for the hobby. That means Lionel has a stronghold on the high end steam market. Not only does that mean higher prices (well beyond recent inflation) but it eliminates the competitive pressure that drives improvement. If you’re in the hobby for another 20, 30, 40 years….that is not a good thing.
The reality is they’re probably the mystery buyer of some MTH steam tooling…but not what I’m hoping for. I’d rather see someone from HO acquire the tooling and license DCS. We only benefit from competition.
@EricTrainMan posted:With all of this talk about Lionel cataloging MTH tooling I thought I’d add another perspective. As exciting as Decapods, Dreyfuss, Triplexs, climaxes, etc with legacy is… that is not a good for the hobby. That means Lionel has a stronghold on the high end steam market. Not only does that mean higher prices (well beyond recent inflation) but it eliminates the competitive pressure that drives improvement. If you’re in the hobby for another 20, 30, 40 years….that is not a good thing.
The reality is they’re probably the mystery buyer of some MTH steam tooling…but not what I’m hoping for. I’d rather see someone from HO acquire the tooling and license DCS. We only benefit from competition.
I think the tooling would be in far better hands with a solid and successful O gauge company, not an HO manufacture.
As for “competition” I think concept of competition in the O gauge hobby as we understood it for the past 25 years has come to an end. Now, we have one large company with a nice selection of smaller companies to choose from, (Menards, Atlas, Williams by Bachmann, the new MTH, etc. )
@Madockawando posted:I think the tooling would be in far better hands with a solid and successful O gauge company, not an HO manufacture.
As for “competition” I think concept of competition in the O gauge hobby as we understood it for the past 25 years has come to an end. Now, we have one large company with a nice selection of smaller companies to choose from, (Menards, Atlas, Williams by Bachmann, the new MTH, etc. )
How many solid and successful O gauge companies are left?
Rusty
@Rusty Traque posted:How many solid and successful O gauge companies are left?
Rusty
Exactly. For scale steam it’s 3rd rail and Lionel. Lionel probably has 98% market share in that segment. You can’t tell me that’s better than having an HO or other producer that actually threatens lionels market share and pushes them.
@EricTrainMan posted:Exactly. For scale steam it’s 3rd rail and Lionel. Lionel probably has 98% market share in that segment. You can’t tell me that’s better than having an HO or other producer that actually threatens lionels market share and pushes them.
I would rather have the tooling be used by Lionel who could quickly bring to market outstanding high quality Legacy locomotives rather than have the tooling languish in the warehouse of a company who sees O gauge as a side show
@Rusty Traque posted:How many solid and successful O gauge companies are left?
Rusty
Isn’t that the loaded question!😉
@EricTrainMan posted:Exactly. For scale steam it’s 3rd rail and Lionel. Lionel probably has 98% market share in that segment. You can’t tell me that’s better than having an HO or other producer that actually threatens lionels market share and pushes them.
I don't think any HO company would threaten Lionel's dominance in the O gauge market. Rapido Trains, Scale Trains, Athearn aren't interested in O. Bachmann would be the only potential threat and only if they would get aggressive not do what they did with Williams.
The only real threat to Lionel was MTH in their early days.
Rusty
@Rusty Traque posted:I don't think any HO company would threaten Lionel's dominance in the O gauge market. Rapido Trains, Scale Trains, Athearn aren't interested in O. Bachmann would be the only potential threat and only if they would get aggressive not do what they did with Williams.
The only real threat to Lionel was MTH in their early days.
Rusty
No company is 'threatening" another company in the O gauge market anymore. Those days are gone. The companies that are left will sink or swim with each other.
Well, as far as tooling be acquired, did Lionel pick and choose what they wanted? Or did they go after about everything that there is? Anyway you slice it they would already know or at least have a good idea what would sell. With Atlas getting the passenger cars from MTH, that broadens their market further for what they produce. Mostly, this could very well dent Lionel's engine/passenger car sets as I know some have told me that they prefer MTH passenger cars over Lionel(especially with the green windows). Only time will tell what comes.
I think this has been a fun and interesting discussion!!
if lionel did get some mth tooling i hope they got the AC4400CW tooling so perhaps they could bring back the SP stack train from 1996 as a more modern legacy set
@Madockawando posted:No company is 'threatening" another company in the O gauge market anymore. Those days are gone. The companies that are left will sink or swim with each other.
Completely agree. I suppose I was thinking longer term “threaten” their monopoly like market share in scale steam…as in a 10-20%. No question that Lionel will dominate the segment for many years to come. Whether it comes from an HO company or not, really doesn’t matter.
Ultimately I’m an avid Lionel supporter, I just want healthy competition for the long term health of the hobby. I’m 30 so availability of parts and new prod icy is a concern for me over the next 20-40 years.
@EricTrainMan posted:Completely agree. I suppose I was thinking longer term “threaten” their monopoly like market share in scale steam…as in a 10-20%. No question that Lionel will dominate the segment for many years to come. Whether it comes from an HO company or not, really doesn’t matter.
Ultimately I’m an avid Lionel supporter, I just want healthy competition for the long term health of the hobby. I’m 30 so availability of parts and new prod icy is a concern for me over the next 20-40 years.
Competition is what made Lionel go to scale. The question is where do things go from here? There are any number of possibilities that can and will occur. My dealer had speculated with MTH closing that the new Lionel catalog would be smaller like it had been before and when MTH arrived on the scene. Well, the first 2021 catalog proved him wrong, but that doesn't mean it can't still happen.
We can only hope that a good chunk of the toolings will be used, whether or not Lionel and Atlas were the only ones going after it. Maybe there will be something else that comes and we can hope for even more goodies coming down the rails. Only time will tell, and Friday is coming fast.
A lot of things could happen at the moment.
Maybe Atlas will expand their new premier line? Or Menards will start producing more engines? Only time will tell.
One last thing I'd like to see is the return of high end starter sets. For example, the overland freight express set came with 2x maxi-stack intermodal cars, 3 autoracks, a TMCC SD70MAC, an 0-60 loop of FasTrack, a TMCC command base + controller and a CW-80. Then there were the empire builder sets which were absolutely enormous.
Something like this would be amazing to see, especially now that we have LC+ 2.0 and the universal remote.
@The Pullman posted:Something like this would be amazing to see, especially now that we have LC+ 2.0 and the universal remote.
If folks will buy them, they will get made.
I sure hope the news is good news because I'm basically like Rocky in the fourth movie right now: I'm hanging in there but life could cool it any time now.
I might throw up my hands and take a vacation if it's bad news!
But I actually bet it's just Lionel acquiring some MTH stuff. I just hope it's interesting stuff that Lionel acquired. Please don't let it be something Lionel has already made.
@BillYo414 posted:I sure hope the news is good news because I'm basically like Rocky in the fourth movie right now: I'm hanging in there but life could cool it any time now.
I might throw up my hands and take a vacation if it's bad news!
But I actually bet it's just Lionel acquiring some MTH stuff. I just hope it's interesting stuff that Lionel acquired. Please don't let it be something Lionel has already made.
All I'm saying is that this could be the GENESIS of tooling we haven't seen before from Lionel.
I think folks will find 7/15 (tomorrow) to be an interesting day in this hobby. Stay tuned!
@Brian DeFazio posted:All I'm saying is that this could be the GENESIS of tooling we haven't seen before from Lionel.
There's a guy who knows what he's talking about.
@Allan Miller posted:I think folks will find 7/15 (tomorrow) to be an interesting day in this hobby. Stay tuned!
Do you mean 7/16?
@Brian DeFazio posted:All I'm saying is that this could be the GENESIS of tooling we haven't seen before from Lionel.
If I AMTRAKing you correctly, we may see a popular locomotive produced in the nineties by GE Transportation?
@TheRambles posted:If I AMTRAKing you correctly, we may see a popular locomotive produced in the nineties by GE Transportation?
That pun is FANTASTIC!!!!!! I'm still chuckling at it. I hope that is the case! I would be very quick to order the Genesis.
@vash44 posted:That pun is FANTASTIC!!!!!! I'm still chuckling at it. I hope that is the case! I would be very quick to order the Genesis.
Thanks haha. A almost bought either a williams or a K-line genesis yesterday. Glad I waited.
@The Pullman posted:A lot of things could happen at the moment.
Maybe Atlas will expand their new premier line? Or Menards will start producing more engines? Only time will tell.One last thing I'd like to see is the return of high end starter sets. For example, the overland freight express set came with 2x maxi-stack intermodal cars, 3 autoracks, a TMCC SD70MAC, an 0-60 loop of FasTrack, a TMCC command base + controller and a CW-80. Then there were the empire builder sets which were absolutely enormous.
Something like this would be amazing to see, especially now that we have LC+ 2.0 and the universal remote.
if i could get a set like that i probably wouldn't have to or want to buy another train for atleast 5 years except for maybe an occasional freight car or something
i would be extremely satisfied
yeah i want a layout and train collection but not so much that half of it gets forgotten and never ran
right now my goal is some standard o rolling stock and a new engine to stand in for the one that i bought after my birthday that i can't seem to fix
i could tackle both needs with a set like the examples The pullman stated
@MartyE posted:Do you mean 7/16?
Or he means, t'was the night before Christmas and all thought the forum the forumites could not sit quietly for more than a minute. How many pages of posts tomorrow?
@rdunniii posted:Or he means, t'was the night before Christmas and all thought the forum the forumites could not sit quietly for more than a minute. How many pages of posts tomorrow?
i can't stay quiet
shoot
the waiting this week has been crazy
did Dave say anything about the catalog in his last video ?
a day and half to go and this has been the longest week i've ever experienced
and its even worse because something tells me that this catalog is gonna have a train so spectacular that i can't not preorder it
like no if ands or buts i'll figure some way to pay for it
Remember how not to long along people here were saying “The traditional catalog is dead! All everyone needs are email announcements of the latest limited runs, etc, etc, etc.”
HA! Wasn’t that thinking rather Premature 😉
Indeed. Plus I prefer having a nice, big catalog to look through, rather than having my inbox being annihilated by 3 zillion emails.
@RJ I posted:The LCCA is hosting a live stream tomorrow, the 15th, on Lionel's YouTube channel to discuss the catalog. The catalog officially comes out on Friday the 16th
is this for the LCCA only or is the stream open to everybody?
@MartyE posted:Do you mean 7/16?
Nope! Thursday, 7/15, around 5 pm Eastern. This "channel."
@Brian DeFazio posted:All I'm saying is that this could be the GENESIS of tooling we haven't seen before from Lionel.
Just your friendly neighborhood reminder that the PREMIER Genisis tooling was purchased by Atlas. This leaves the Railking one still floating around out there... for now.
@Allan Miller posted:I think folks will find 7/15 (tomorrow) to be an interesting day in this hobby. Stay tuned!
Agreed. For many reasons.
Pete
@paigetrain posted:is this for the LCCA only or is the stream open to everybody?
The last one was and I haven't seen any other information otherwise.
@RJ I posted:Just your friendly neighborhood reminder that the PREMIER Genisis tooling was purchased by Atlas. This leaves the Railking one still floating around out there... for now.
Yep I know 😉. Draw your conclusions accordingly
@Brian DeFazio posted:All I'm saying is that this could be the GENESIS of tooling we haven't seen before from Lionel.
That would be HUGE!!!
what time eastern will the catalog come out on friday ?
i'm not an lcca member so i probably won't see the livestream tomarrow
