@Landsteiner posted:"Finally, Lionel trains that don't come broken in the box!"
We might remember that Mike Wolf once said he wanted to own Lionel. Turns out that Lionel owns a bit of Mike
.
Fighting the last war is never fruitful. It's over.
Yes, the MTH vs Lionel war is over. Lionel owns as much of MTH tooling as they wanted to purchase (that statement as per Lionel)
welcome to the Lionel family MTH!😉
From the MTH tooling:
-Greg
Fyi...most of the locos posted so far will have more liveries than shown in the pics. They didn't state them on the call - just mentioned we'll see when the catalog goes live.
-Greg
Looks like that's it for engines:
Hobo sound car and camera caboose.
-Greg
This acquisition of MTH tooling is good news for all command operators. DCS fans can control these new Legacy locos using their DCS equipment through a TMCC or Legacy base. Legacy and TMCC users can directly control these former MTH/DCS locos using their Legacy or TMCC equipment. No one is left out.
we got C-Liners plus a LC+ 2.0 Genesis
Gotta run....maybe someone else can take over...if not, we'll all see soon enough.
-Greg
nvm I didn't see your images
Some of the MTH tooling purchased by Lionel includes accessories
Wait, what? Lionel buys MTH tooling? Impossible! I was emphatically told by "experts" on this forum that MTH doesn't own their tooling and could never sell it or transfer it!
Great to see that was outrageously wrong. Can't wait to scour the new catalog for new acquisitions! Excellent news!
@Madockawando posted:Yes, the MTH vs Lionel war is over. Lionel owns as much of MTH tooling as they wanted to purchase (that statement as per Lionel)
welcome to the Lionel family MTH!😉
LOL, this is hilarious. MTH has been selling tooling for a while. A whole lot went to Atlas and a whole lot is still left with MTH. I think your bias is clouding your messaging on this subject. 
Great news that this "legacy" MTH tooling will be used to make new products, but I also wonder what niche "New MTH" really intends to fill in the market going forward.
@MichRR714 posted:LOL, this is hilarious. MTH has been selling tooling for a while. A whole lot went to Atlas and a whole lot is still left with MTH. I think your bias is clouding your messaging on this subject.
Ha ha... "It's only a flesh wound!" it's over... Let's all enjoy our new MTH trains with Legacy command and control!
@Madockawando posted:Ha ha... "It's only a flesh wound!" it's over... Let's all enjoy our new MTH trains with Legacy command and control!
Your delusional! Do you realize how many trains are going to be delivered with DCS over the next 12 to 24 months? Talk about not seeing the forest from the trees.
@Greg Houser posted:
dude i may have to jump for one of either the p42s or the hudson
haven't decided yet
probably the genesis so i can do some ARCTA commuter work
ARCTA stands for Allegheny Regional Commuter Transit Authority
I can't wait to scour the whole catalog tomorrow
@MichRR714 posted:Your delusional! Do you realize how many trains are going to be delivered with DCS over the next 12 to 24 months?
The train hobby changed in a very significant way today. It’s a big enough change that it will take some time for some people to process it, but changed it has. And it is a good change for the hobby!
@Madockawando posted:The train hobby changed in a very significant way today. It’s a big enough change that it will take some time for some people to process it, but changed it has. And it is a good change for the hobby!
I'm not sure what you based this statement on? It could be that I'm not aware of your credentials as an expert in the hobby industry.
wdym?
@Landsteiner posted:"Finally, Lionel trains that don't come broken in the box!"
We might remember that Mike Wolf once said he wanted to own Lionel. Turns out that Lionel owns a bit of Mike
Fighting the last war is never fruitful. It's over.
Karma? What comes around, goes around😏
@Madockawando posted:The train hobby changed in a very significant way today. It’s a big enough change that it will take some time for some people to process it, but changed it has. And it is a good change for the hobby!
Eh? I hardly call tooling changing hands a "significant" change.
A new control system would be a significant change. Lionel adopting the DCC standard from other scales and ditching Legacy/TMCC/Lionchief would be a "significant" change.
Lionel bought some tooling and made a catalog. Pretty standard stuff, nothing revolutionary. Well except the prices. Actually that's par for the course as well.
@MichRR714 posted:I'm not sure what you based this on. It could be that I'm not aware of your credentials as an expert in the hobby industry.
I know it’s a tough moment, but I am sure we just saw the tip of the iceberg. We will know more about other MTH tooling tomorrow. It’s going to be great!
@Madockawando posted:I know it’s a tough moment, but I am sure we just saw the tip of the iceberg. We will know more about other MTH tooling tomorrow. It’s going to be great!
It's not a tough moment. It's business! Lionel bought some tooling.
"Do you realize how many trains are going to be delivered with DCS over the next 12 to 24 months? "
I have no idea, but we'll see. In any case, it's probably going to be less than had MTH continued as before. Shouldn't be a big problem one way or the other for anyone, if MTH's plans for DCS production works out as proposed. If your sense of well being depends on the number of locomotives your favorite train company makes, it's time to rethink things . And if seeing Lionel do well makes anyone upset, it's probably time to order some more PS3 equipped locos.
There are no losers here. If MTH couldn't sell the company as a whole, and if Mike Wolf chose not sell off parts of the company piecemeal, those who depend upon MTH and DCS would have been left high and dry. That didn't happen. So at least the short term benefits to how it has worked out is that MTH fans get some continued production which would help fund the separate parts and DCS companies, and Lionel fans get some locos, rolling stock and accessories that wouldn't have happened without the tooling sale/leasing that's occurring. Everyone wins, including some MTH employees who might have been left without employment if things worked out differently. And Mike Wolf gets to golf more.
@MichRR714 posted:It's not a tough moment. It's business! Lionel bought some tooling.
Lionel brought a “broad assortment” of tooling from its major competitor. It is a development that was unimaginable just two years ago and it’s just started. The O gauge market has changed… and it exciting
It's nice to see some items that haven't been offered in a while. We'll probably see some former MTH items in Lionel's hands down the road too.
but I'm going to have to agree with Lou. Atlas bought some tooling, Lionel bought some tooling, MTH kept the rest and are still making trains(albeit in a smaller amount).
I wouldn't call it a significant change, but it's nice to see some new additions.
@The Pullman posted:It's nice to see some items that haven't been offered in a while. We'll probably see some former MTH items in Lionel's hands down the road too.
but I'm going to have to agree with Lou. Atlas bought some tooling, Lionel bought some tooling, MTH kept the rest and are still making trains(albeit in a smaller amount).
I wouldn't call it a significant change, but it's nice to see some new additions.
Yeah I'm not really excited by this. Besides the brass hybrid 2-10-0s its just tooling we've all seen before with different electronics. That's not revolutionary or a significant change in my book. Same stuff, different color box.
But I don't have brand or control system loyalty. I buy what I like in the roads I like, no matter who makes it or if it has Legacy/TMCC or DCS. I'm a fan of 3 rail O scale model trains, not any specific manufacture.
@Landsteiner posted:"Do you realize how many trains are going to be delivered with DCS over the next 12 to 24 months? "
I have no idea, but we'll see. In any case, it's probably going to be less than had MTH continued as before. Shouldn't be a big problem one way or the other for anyone, if MTH's plans for DCS production works out as proposed. If your sense of well being depends on the number of locomotives your favorite train company makes, it's time to rethink things
There are no losers here. If MTH couldn't sell the company as a whole, and if Mike Wolf chose not sell off parts of the company piecemeal, those who depend upon MTH and DCS would have been left high and dry. That didn't happen. So at least the short term benefits to how it has worked out is that MTH fans get some continued production which would help fund the separate parts and DCS companies, and Lionel fans get some locos, rolling stock and accessories that wouldn't have happened without the tooling sale/leasing that's occurring. Everyone wins, including some MTH employees who might have been left without employment if things worked out differently. And Mike Wolf gets to golf more.
How does Atlas play into your overly simplified analysis?
Oh and by the way... I have a whole bunch of Lionel Legacy locomotives. I buy them when Lionel paints them the right color.
For those of us in the hobby for the last 25 years, these are pretty big changes. No one can foresee the future, obviously, but things are going to be different. I was pretty much through buying locomotives but I see a C-liner or two in my future. Both MTH and Lionel will benefit .
@Madockawando posted:Lionel brought a “broad assortment” of tooling from its major competitor. It is a development that was unimaginable just two years ago and it’s just started. The O gauge market has changed… and it exciting
You are equating broad assortment with large amount or variety. They show a Railking engine and some Railking and Premier Rolling stock. It could easily fit in two pages of one MTH catalog. No doubt there are a few other items but unlikely the majority.
I will take notice when they offer the MTH engines that Lionel has done before but not as well as the MTH version.
Pete
@KOOLjock1 posted:Dang. Tonight is race night. I'll be working the Port winch at 5PM. BUT I'll tune into YouTube and here ASAP!
Jon
MBBC? What boat? (I used to crew on Bark Ode / Dog House.)
I'm actually a little excited about this. Looking forward to seeing what they release. However, if the popular MTH subway tooling was among those acquired, I will be through the roof. I'd even get my cab2l up and running again and gladly join the party. Fingers crossed!
"How does Atlas play into your overly simplified analysis?"
Beats me. I own some Atlas locos and rolling stock but they've been a non-factor in the industry for many years. Time will tell. Can the proposed DCS company prosper without a full line train company pushing it along? Does Atlas become a full-line train company with starter sets, power supplies, etc.?
What does your crystal ball say? Mine's in the shop for repairs.
And it goes without saying that without Lionel and Atlas buying or leasing the rights to MTH tooling, MTH's chances of even short-term survival would have been close to zero. The fact that Lionel, that largest and most recognized three rail brand is funneling money Mike Wolf's way should be considered great news by MTH fans.
I'm not sure what I'm getting in this new catalog, solely because there are too many options.
C&O 4-12-2 or SP AC-12?
DD-35 or 2-8-0?
SD70MAC or C-Liner?
Isn't there going to be another announcement here on OGR at 5:00?
Yes
Regardless of brand or control system "warfare". The best part about Lionel purchasing the tooling is, that wonderful MTH tooling will not just sit in a warehouse overseas collecting dust.
It was also nice to see Lionel bring much of the K Line tooling back into the hobby.
Now, I wonder if Lionel will take a return of my Pennsy consolidation with a Bel Paire firebox as credit towards a respectable PRR H10 model made with the MTH tooling?
This also.is good news for those of us who have been on the fence about adding DCS to a Legacy layout.
@MichRR714 posted:Your delusional! Do you realize how many trains are going to be delivered with DCS over the next 12 to 24 months? Talk about not seeing the forest from the trees.
Significantly less than the 12 to 24 months that proceeded it. Lionel is not going to put DCS in the items they are making. I'm guessing Atlas doesn't come close to the numbers that MTH used to do when it comes the few diesels they are producing now.
@Landsteiner posted:This acquisition of MTH tooling is good news for all command operators. DCS fans can control these new Legacy locos using their DCS equipment through a TMCC or Legacy base. Legacy and TMCC users can directly control these former MTH/DCS locos using their Legacy or TMCC equipment. No one is left out.
What you covered in the first sentence has always been the case. What you covered in the second sentence is potentially huge, if it means that you can run new Lionel engines that will have DCS systems installed in them on TMCC or Legacy.
Pat
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