John, when I used a cookie cutter, I laid out my track where I want it and mark the plywood at least a half inch beyond the ties so you know where to cut. I then removed the track and cut the plywood. I then fastened the cut plywood to the risers and cut out the Homasote to match. A variation could be to mark the Homasote with the cut plywood pieces before fastening to the risers. Just make sure you overlap the joints so you don’t have the edges of the plywood and Homasote at the same spot. Is the foam intended for a scenery base?
Hi Mark
Thanks Mark for you valuable input. Yes foam is to accommodate scenery, such that it will elevate track so culverts and streams could be cut out going below track plane. So in a lot of places there will be track on foam on homosote on plywood. Not sure if this is a good approach? Thoughts anyone!
Here are some pics of the plywood top
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John, yes, I see what you mean for the foam. I think it would work for a short distance like a culvert etc. the photographs look good John. You have done a lot!
John wrote”So in a lot of places there will be track on foam on homosote on plywood. Not sure if this is a good approach? Thoughts anyone!”
Well John did say anyone,
I would lay foam across the entire top surface reasons;
might give lower decibel count
will be easier to level across entire top surface rather that 3 different materials
will let you use just 1 type of fastener
with any thickness of 1/4 or greater you will be able to sculpt your landscape(right word?)
be careful when melting styrofoam and careful glueing but other wise really I like it.
Did get super sick of the color pink however.
Worked for me.
Good luck and happy modeling
Steven
@train steve posted:John wrote”So in a lot of places there will be track on foam on homosote on plywood. Not sure if this is a good approach? Thoughts anyone!”
Well John did say anyone,
I would lay foam across the entire top surface reasons;
might give lower decibel count
will be easier to level across entire top surface rather that 3 different materials
will let you use just 1 type of fastener
with any thickness of 1/4 or greater you will be able to sculpt your landscape(right word?)
be careful when melting styrofoam and careful glueing but other wise really I like it.
Did get super sick of the color pink however.
Worked for me.
Good luck and happy modeling
Steven
Thanks Steven, what did you secure the foam with? What type of glue? Did you have any issues with running track and trains on foam?
I agree about the pink getting a bit much, I was able to get blue
thanks
John, while I’m far from done, I did use 3/4” foam board over everything. I secured it with a basic glue using my caulking gun. Next I painted it a dirt brown ($13.00 a gallon at Lowes). Additional ground cover will be used but everything has dirt underneath. I also painted the edges to match the trim of the fascia. I also cut carpet padding for under the track; which will also be ballasted. I’m very pleased with the process.
Jay
John, I’ve been following along. Great looking space and layout. On page 22 you show a lighted switch stand. If you have one up and running. Would love an opinion of how it functions and ease of hookup.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:John, while I’m far from done, I did use 3/4” foam board over everything. I secured it with a basic glue using my caulking gun. Next I painted it a dirt brown ($13.00 a gallon at Lowes). Additional ground cover will be used but everything has dirt underneath. I also painted the edges to match the trim of the fascia. I also cut carpet padding for under the track; which will also be ballasted. I’m very pleased with the process.
Jay
HI Jay,
Thanks for your input on the foam board. How did you secure the track to the foam board? Did you glue the carpet padding to the foam? How did you secure the track? These questions I am sure are extremely basic. However I have never done a large layout and I am just getting familar with the materials and reasons for using them on the layout. All help is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks
@Dave_C posted:John, I’ve been following along. Great looking space and layout. On page 22 you show a lighted switch stand. If you have one up and running. Would love an opinion of how it functions and ease of hookup.
Hi Dave, I wish I had anything up and walking lol... That said, I did purchase one of those manual lighted throws and did run into an issue. Not certain,but clearance for the throw was an issue. I can locate it and check it out again. They are (for me) on the pricey side for sure which is a consideration I have to always contend with, as this hobby in general is not cheap. Give me a little time and I'll dig it out and re-evaluate. This time I'll write down my thoughts as the memory banks fail more often than not.
ok I found that throw and it doesn't have enough throw for ross switches. The issue is the clearance between wood ties and the throw arm. Not sure how to explain it, other than to get the full throw, some wood tie needs to be removed. I was going to call them for help, but alas real life took over and if you didn't remind me, I would continue on until I got back to switches. Hope that helps
John, that is a good point, the memory banks do fail. Documentation is always a good idea.
@Aegis21 posted:HI Jay,
Thanks for your input on the foam board. How did you secure the track to the foam board? Did you glue the carpet padding to the foam? How did you secure the track? These questions I am sure are extremely basic. However I have never done a large layout and I am just getting familar with the materials and reasons for using them on the layout. All help is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks
As I mentioned John I’m far from done. I wasn’t planning on gluing the padding; unless it’s required in specific areas. I have my two mainlines operable for just looping the trains. The track is not secured because I’m still making adjustments. None of the switches have been installed either. However, as is, there haven’t been any problems. My inclination would be to glue the track. Screws into the wood would not be helpful towards sound deadening.
Jay
OK Here is another question from someone (me) who has been out of the hobby for 55 years. Uncoupling cars? I have noticed many new (if not all) engines have electrical couplers that can be remotely controlled. Do the cars have the same feature, and if not how do you uncouple them? Manually, magnetically (like the old days) or istalling electrical couplers on cars? Besides the obvious reason for the question, if remote uncoupler tracks or magnetic need to be installed, I would like to plan for them in advance and set up some remote control for those devices.
Again Any and All help is greatly appreciated.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:As I mentioned John I’m far from done. I wasn’t planning on gluing the padding; unless it’s required in specific areas. I have my two mainlines operable for just looping the trains. The track is not secured because I’m still making adjustments. None of the switches have been installed either. However, as is, there haven’t been any problems. My inclination would be to glue the track. Screws into the wood would not be helpful towards sound deadening.
Jay
Jay thanks for the info. I can see where screwing into the wood is not optimal at all. Would ballasting the track with ballast and scenic cement (diluted Elmers glue) be enough to secure it to the layout?
John magnetic uncouplers have been used for years. You can plan for them. But it seems as your layout evolves and you start running trains they aren’t always where you want them to be. They also involve extra track joints. I think it’s best to leave them out of the plan till you start running trains. Then you will know where they are needed. There have been numerous posts on how to add just the magnet function using old Lionel magnets into existing trackage. Cut the track rail and drop them in place. But that may also involve climbing up on the layout when the time comes.
I switched to Kadee’s many years ago. I had my share of Gargraves magnets. Worked great uncoupling cars. The issue for me was getting the cars coupled up without chasing them down the tracks. The engines today are capable of running so slow. Some of the newer cars really roll easy. In many cases you needed wheelstops or bumpers.
John, I agree with Dave’s comments. I did as he said and waited until running trains to install uncouplers. I did not replace couplers as he did however.
John, FWIW, I used 3/4" blue foam on my layout and secured it to the plywood top using Liquid Nails construction adhesive applied with a caulking gun. After gluing, I immediately placed heavy books and objects on top to make sure it stayed flat and let it dry overnight.
I filled any seams with vinyl spackling compound and sanded smooth. I masked off streets and roadways with duct tape and then painted the foam top in sections with earth brown latex paint from one of the big box stores. While the paint was still wet, I sprinkled a combination of fine green and yellow WS turf onto the paint until I got the right mix of brown, green and yellow "dirt" I wanted and then moved on to the next section and repeated until done. By applying the fine turf while the paint is still wet, it sets into the paint and doesn't fly away as easily.
I didn't worry about getting paint on the sides, because I knew I was going to put up thin, wooden (1/4" luan plywood) edging which would hide any drips. Once the top was dry, I removed the duct tape and painted the roadways a latex grey concrete color and added stripes with a white paint pen.
I inserted screws through the track and into the foam, but not long enough to penetrate the plywood decking. I put some CA glue on the tip of each screw to help hold it into the foam. My experience is that you don't really need to overtighten the screws in the foam. They're just there to keep the track from shifting around.
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@Dave_C posted:John magnetic uncouplers have been used for years. You can plan for them. But it seems as your layout evolves and you start running trains they aren’t always where you want them to be. They also involve extra track joints. I think it’s best to leave them out of the plan till you start running trains. Then you will know where they are needed. There have been numerous posts on how to add just the magnet function using old Lionel magnets into existing trackage. Cut the track rail and drop them in place. But that may also involve climbing up on the layout when the time comes.
I switched to Kadee’s many years ago. I had my share of Gargraves magnets. Worked great uncoupling cars. The issue for me was getting the cars coupled up without chasing them down the tracks. The engines today are capable of running so slow. Some of the newer cars really roll easy. In many cases you needed wheelstops or bumpers.
Thanks Dave, Mark and everyone else on couplers. Makes sense now to wait until things are running and I find out where they would work the best for this layout.
@Richie C. posted:John, FWIW, I used 3/4" blue foam on my layout and secured it to the plywood top using Liquid Nails construction adhesive applied with a caulking gun. After gluing, I immediately placed heavy books and objects on top to make sure it stayed flat and let it dry overnight.
I inserted screws through the track and into the foam, but not long enough to penetrate the plywood decking. I put some CA glue on the tip of each screw to help hold it into the foam. My experience is that you don't really need to overtighten the screws in the foam. They're just there to keep the track from shifting around.
Richie, Thanks a ton for the details and pics! I noticed you did not cookie cutter the track you elevated. What did you use for roadbed on the elevated sections? How did you get the transition from flat to start to elevate? It appears you just used some gradualted blocking supports for the fastrack. Again thanks for the info.
The outside elevated loop is an O-36 curve with O-48 easements to increase the radius enough to clear the O-31 curve on the layout base.
The elevated loop rises to the height of the rock piers that are part of and on either side of the Lionel lighted bridge and then transitions back down. I used the MTH graduated trestle set for the risers and basically tried to set them at each track connection point so that they supported the track as well as elevated it. In order to get the rise as smooth as possible, some of the MTH trestles had to be set in the middle of the track pieces or shimmed with thin wooden shims.
Overs the years and especially as Lionel has made larger (and heavier) engines that will operate on smaller curves (like my LC + 2.0 Big Boy), I've had to reinforce the elevated portion by adding upright a couple of pieces of 2X4's cut to the proper height and painted battleship grey to match the rest of the risers. Where the MTH trestles were not quite high enough to reach the proper height, I cut thin pieces of a 2X4 to use as a shim under the trestles and painted them grey as well.
One "trick" I also used was to cut the wooden shims at a slight angle and to shim each MTH trestle so that the outside of the curve was tilted slightly (about 1/16") higher than the inside. This creates a nice a cambered curve and helps keep any wayward engines from falling off the outside of the elevated curve.
The Fastrack is basically strong enough to support itself with just the MTH trestles and wooden risers. However, if I had to do it all over again or if I was using open trackage, I would take the assembled elevated track curve and place it on a thin sheet of plywood (like 1/4" luan) and trace it out and then cut it out with a jigsaw and then attach it to the bottom of the track with screws, so you have a rigid support plate. I would then use the WS graduated foam riser set to make my elevated curve or carve your own riser out of foam or build wooden piers. The foam risers can be covered with scenic material to look like a hill.
I used this type of plate assembly on another area of my layout where I had an elevated siding and built wooden piers out of 1" square pine stock.
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Richie, you have a good point about the ‘if I had to do over’ that you would cut some lauan to size for extra support. I used the Woodland Scenics risers for my rear grade and a set of K-Line plastic trestles for my front grade. I played risers at every track joint, GarGraves, and used shims like you did. Now that I am going to move my town to the upper level, I’m going to is my leftover Woodland Scenics only because I found more I bought years ago.
@Mark Boyce did you use screws or anything to hold your risers/trestles to the table?
@BillYo414 posted:@Mark Boyce did you use screws or anything to hold your risers/trestles to the table?
Not Mark, but the MTH trestles did come with pre-drilled screw holes in the bases for attaching to the layout top and I used them.
I don't believe the WS foam risers have any physical attachment points, but I'm guessing they could be glued in place with a construction type adhesive.
Yes the K-Line trestles have holes for securing them to the table. There are also little steel brackets and screws to secure the track to the top of the trestles.
The woodland Scenics material is intended to be secured with glue compatible with the foam. I used cookie cutter method on layouts years ago but opted for the foam risers this go round. It provides a very strong base, but you have to figure how to do the vertical easements at the bottom and top of grades.
Thank you @Richie C. and @Mark Boyce. I was debating on the glue or screws for the trestle I plan to make and I thought maybe having the track secured to the table before the trestle would negate the need for attached the trestle to the table.
@BillYo414 posted:Thank you @Richie C. and @Mark Boyce. I was debating on the glue or screws for the trestle I plan to make and I thought maybe having the track secured to the table before the trestle would negate the need for attached the trestle to the table.
I think it all depends on the style of trestle and whether the trestle is below table top enabling the trains to cross a deep chasm or lifting track to a higher level like Richie’s and mine
I would be adding this as a high line for my blast furnace. I need to get five or six inches of lift. I do get a little bit squeamish putting a Legacy engine up off the ground haha
I can appreciate the willies with a Legacy engine in the air! Sturdy supports.
The screws certainly help anchor the supports and cambering the track with shims also helps insure that the engines stay on track. Haven't lost one in 7 years (knocking on wood as I type this).
Where is magnetraction when we need it ? 
Great info everyone! I will try the Luan on the elevated sections and will definitely use angled shims to bank the curves for sure
I have seen both 2x4 trestle support and WS foam supports. Any pros and cons of each?
It's peculiar. I currently have a trestle on the test layout that goes up 5 inches but it's very well supported (like a big wedge instead of trestle). I know the track can't tip over but I still get nervous seeing it go up haha
@Aegis21 posted:Great info everyone! I will try the Luan on the elevated sections and will definitely use angled shims to bank the curves for sure
I have seen both 2x4 trestle support and WS foam supports. Any pros and cons of each?
I think they are pretty equal in terms of providing adequate support, with a slight edge to the foam risers.
Part of the answer depends on the 'look" you are going after. The trestles have a more nostalgic look, while the risers can be scenically covered with foam, plaster, etc. and ground cover to look like one long hill that the train is traversing.
OTOH, the space between trestle supports can also be used to place scene "vignettes". For instance, I have a log cabin in between two trestles in one location and a hobo campground in another and this fishing scene in another.
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If your looking to elevate your curves and your using Gargraves or Atlas. A old school way to do it. Is to pick up some n scale cork roadbed. The kind Midwest sells that’s is split down the middle. Just slip it under your outside edge of the track under the rail. It will easily follow the curve and raise it about 1/8 “.
@Richie C. posted:I think they are pretty equal in terms of providing adequate support, with a slight edge to the foam risers.
Part of the answer depends on the 'look" you are going after. The trestles have a more nostalgic look, while the risers can be scenically covered with foam, plaster, etc. and ground cover to look like one long hill that the train is traversing.
OTOH, the space between trestle supports can also be used to place scene "vignettes". For instance, I have a log cabin in between two trestles in one location and a hobo campground in another and this fishing scene in another.
I think Richie's comment covers both methods well.
@BillYo414 posted:It's peculiar. I currently have a trestle on the test layout that goes up 5 inches but it's very well supported (like a big wedge instead of trestle). I know the track can't tip over but I still get nervous seeing it go up haha
Oh I certainly can feel the apprehension for sure!
Now here is another newbie question. How high of an elevation is needed for a train to pass under the elevated section safely?
@Richie C. posted:I think they are pretty equal in terms of providing adequate support, with a slight edge to the foam risers.
Part of the answer depends on the 'look" you are going after. The trestles have a more nostalgic look, while the risers can be scenically covered with foam, plaster, etc. and ground cover to look like one long hill that the train is traversing.
OTOH, the space between trestle supports can also be used to place scene "vignettes". For instance, I have a log cabin in between two trestles in one location and a hobo campground in another and this fishing scene in another.
Great work on the scene! This pic really brings out your point of having the trestle provide more opportunity for creativity.
Aegis21 wrote”Thanks Steven, what did you secure the foam with? What type of glue? Did you have any issues with running track and trains on foam?”
To secure foam,I tested several types of glue, the best for me was PPG Gripper a primer and adhesive. It could be painted on for better coverage. I also used weights to aid bonding. Takes a bit of time to cure,over night, but it works foam on foam and foam to plywood. Also tried construction adhesive tubes made for foam and those worked ok.
I’m running first plywood then foam board then outdoor carpeting. Some of the layered foam is 5 inch thick, no real issues but had to use 3 inch screws with coarse threads to hold track down, some dipped in adhesive. The lower level had no issues because the screw length could fasten into the plywood.
Ultimately the bonds on the foam and track are very securely attached.
Hope this helps
Steven Taylor
Thanks Steven that does help a lot!
It has been a while since last updates, so this is what has been going on. I have finalized, tested (without track or trains) remote control of power blocks, turnouts and remote occupancy detectors all installed in layout. I have defaulted the mainlines to all power up with initial power being applied. Spurs, yard, whisker tracks are defaulted off requiring a command to turn those on individually. Turnouts are all defaulted to straight thru and need activation for turning. Since I think I have done as much under table work from above as I could, it is time to lay some track to get at least one mainline working to test electronics and see how I like the layout. I will just be putting it directly on the plywood and no elevations yet. just a test and get the feel for how things work. Any advice is MORE than welcome.
John, it does sound like you are ready to lay track. Congratulations on getting so much accomplished from above without having to be uncomfortable under the layout. A lesson for all of us.
